Hello to All;
I just finished reading an interesting article in the latest Cruising World about three boats about to leave the Port of Yemen...They were asked (by an Official) if they were cruising together, and if they were carrying weapons, to which they replyed "yes" and "no" respectively...shortly after being underway, they were overtaken by several small power boats spraying automatic weapons fire through the rigging. After being robbed of all pilferable and easily fenced merchandise, they were left alone. The incident was reported but no results thus far...
My question to the Board is this...how do you feel about carrying weapons onboard and protecting your property? Is this asking for trouble, or do Captains have a legitimate right to protect themselves?
TIA, for offering your opinion on this controversial subject.
Lou Ostendorff
CD25D "Karma"
'82, #63
louosten@ipass.net
Guns & Pirates
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Michael Heintz
Re: Guns & Pirates
Lou,
Yes, this indeed is a controversial subject, especially in light of the shooting of Sir Richard Blake in the Amazon, as some of you may know, his yacht was raided by "a gang of petty thieves." They boarded his 118 foot Aluminum schooner the "Seamaster". "The bandits opened fire after Blake reportedly shot a .308 rifle at the thieves, wounding one in the hand " as reported by CNN. His tragic death has certainly opened a can of worms regarding defending yourself with arms. There were many at the time who felt that if he had not brought out his gun and fired, they would have simply taken what they wanted and left. Interestingly, the thieves propose their defense as self defense....go figure......
Perhaps, needless to say, I would not carry arms here in the states, however, I have spent the last 20 years visiting, sailing and powerboating in the Bahamas, and there was a time it was thought that there was a risk. Mainly to fast powerboats as they were targets for the drug trade, and many stories floated around regarding missing boats. The feeling being that the drug shipments were being brought in and then fast boats stolen to brings the goods to the states. My farther in law (at the time) had a custom Direktor's aluminum hull 42 footer, it was fast, and he always felt he might be at risk. Needless to say this was always a hot topic. Along with the topic of responding to "someone" requesting help, as this was the common rouse of bandits to get you to come close. The result of all this discussion was pretty much "each to their own ," my feeling was that many people did carry arms, but kept it to themselves.
My personal feeling is that Captains do have a legitimate right to protect themselves, crew and family, however I must point out that you may be putting yourself at greater risk by doing so.
If you do choose to carry arms, you better well know how to use firearms, and you better have a clear idea of responses you can take to this type of situation. Sort of a "risk management" approach to responding to pirates or thieves. It is often said "less is more"
Only you can decide what is right, and this clearly depends on where you might be, and whether there is real risk to life and limb.
I'm sure this will be an interesting thread on this board. There is nothing more controversial than carrying arms on board.
I await this discussion!!!!
Michael Heintz
Yes, this indeed is a controversial subject, especially in light of the shooting of Sir Richard Blake in the Amazon, as some of you may know, his yacht was raided by "a gang of petty thieves." They boarded his 118 foot Aluminum schooner the "Seamaster". "The bandits opened fire after Blake reportedly shot a .308 rifle at the thieves, wounding one in the hand " as reported by CNN. His tragic death has certainly opened a can of worms regarding defending yourself with arms. There were many at the time who felt that if he had not brought out his gun and fired, they would have simply taken what they wanted and left. Interestingly, the thieves propose their defense as self defense....go figure......
Perhaps, needless to say, I would not carry arms here in the states, however, I have spent the last 20 years visiting, sailing and powerboating in the Bahamas, and there was a time it was thought that there was a risk. Mainly to fast powerboats as they were targets for the drug trade, and many stories floated around regarding missing boats. The feeling being that the drug shipments were being brought in and then fast boats stolen to brings the goods to the states. My farther in law (at the time) had a custom Direktor's aluminum hull 42 footer, it was fast, and he always felt he might be at risk. Needless to say this was always a hot topic. Along with the topic of responding to "someone" requesting help, as this was the common rouse of bandits to get you to come close. The result of all this discussion was pretty much "each to their own ," my feeling was that many people did carry arms, but kept it to themselves.
My personal feeling is that Captains do have a legitimate right to protect themselves, crew and family, however I must point out that you may be putting yourself at greater risk by doing so.
If you do choose to carry arms, you better well know how to use firearms, and you better have a clear idea of responses you can take to this type of situation. Sort of a "risk management" approach to responding to pirates or thieves. It is often said "less is more"
Only you can decide what is right, and this clearly depends on where you might be, and whether there is real risk to life and limb.
I'm sure this will be an interesting thread on this board. There is nothing more controversial than carrying arms on board.
I await this discussion!!!!
Michael Heintz
-
Ed Haley
Re: Guns & Pirates
Lou,
You're right. This is a very controversial topic. You'll get as many different responses as there are experienced sailors. I can only offer one of them.
There's a lot to be said that the best offense is a good defense. I think it works while cruising. By anticipating possible risks coming from any direction, you can minimize the threats. Traveling in the company of other boats is a good way to decrease your boat (or others) as a possible target of thieves or vandals. Avoid troublespots, such as the one you mentioned in the Port of Yemen.
However, to some, this just doesn't satisfy the degree of protection that is desired for family and belongings. I make no judgment here. A person trained in the use of firearms and be willing to use them would perceive a greater sense of security by having them aboard.
In some situations, firearms aboard saved the day. It could also make it worse. I believe the secret to using arms successfully is being trained in their use and be willing to use them as a deadly force, not merely to scare away possible pertpetrators. Thieves know if you're not willing to actually shoot them.
Having said all this, I do not carry weapons aboard. However, I did prepare to arm myself with a flare pistol to prevent a person from purposely ramming my boat with his after he holed several boats in the vicinity. Fortunately, The Canadian Coast Guard was after him before he came at me.
So what's the answer? There is no "answer." You, as Captain of your vessel, can take whatever legal means necessary to provide what you feel is a reasonable circle of protection around your little floating world. And I would also add that I would use any means necessary to repel a threat whether that action later proves to be illegal or not. If my family is safe as a result of that action, it was right and just and I'd be able to live with consequences. IMHO, of course.
Ed Haley
Captain S/V Mokita
CD330 #1
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
You're right. This is a very controversial topic. You'll get as many different responses as there are experienced sailors. I can only offer one of them.
There's a lot to be said that the best offense is a good defense. I think it works while cruising. By anticipating possible risks coming from any direction, you can minimize the threats. Traveling in the company of other boats is a good way to decrease your boat (or others) as a possible target of thieves or vandals. Avoid troublespots, such as the one you mentioned in the Port of Yemen.
However, to some, this just doesn't satisfy the degree of protection that is desired for family and belongings. I make no judgment here. A person trained in the use of firearms and be willing to use them would perceive a greater sense of security by having them aboard.
In some situations, firearms aboard saved the day. It could also make it worse. I believe the secret to using arms successfully is being trained in their use and be willing to use them as a deadly force, not merely to scare away possible pertpetrators. Thieves know if you're not willing to actually shoot them.
Having said all this, I do not carry weapons aboard. However, I did prepare to arm myself with a flare pistol to prevent a person from purposely ramming my boat with his after he holed several boats in the vicinity. Fortunately, The Canadian Coast Guard was after him before he came at me.
So what's the answer? There is no "answer." You, as Captain of your vessel, can take whatever legal means necessary to provide what you feel is a reasonable circle of protection around your little floating world. And I would also add that I would use any means necessary to repel a threat whether that action later proves to be illegal or not. If my family is safe as a result of that action, it was right and just and I'd be able to live with consequences. IMHO, of course.
Ed Haley
Captain S/V Mokita
CD330 #1
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
-
Will W.
Re: Guns & Pirates
I must say that I never dreamed this subject would come up here. Anybody remember how Hal got keel hualed for bringing up politics. This has got to be as divisive a subject as that. I don't think I would bother with a firearm on board in the U.S. Leaving the U.S. I almost definately would. I read the articles about Sir Blake and was saddened greatly. He definatly died needlessly. I say in that situation the gun should have never come out. As Captain Heinz points out, you better know how to use one if you keep one. Just having it will provide little or no security and in some cases ( like with blake )they make things worse for the person trying to defend themselves. The thing that made me shake my head in this case is that I can't figure why Blake thought he could sucessfully fight off several bad guys, at close range, with a long gun. Gun ownership is a serious responsibilty that most sailors can probably handle. Defending yourself with a gun requires at least some instruction beyond just carefull ownership. Without proper training in self defense I would guess that a gun on board would be more of a liabilty to the people on board than not.
I wonder if there are special courses available for sailors with a focus on boat defence/safety. There are two people in my family who sail out of U.S. waters; mostly the caribean. One keeps a gun the other doesn't. Neither of them has had any trouble.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
willwheatley@starpower.net
I wonder if there are special courses available for sailors with a focus on boat defence/safety. There are two people in my family who sail out of U.S. waters; mostly the caribean. One keeps a gun the other doesn't. Neither of them has had any trouble.
Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25
Michael Heintz wrote: Lou,
Yes, this indeed is a controversial subject, especially in light of the shooting of Sir Richard Blake in the Amazon, as some of you may know, his yacht was raided by "a gang of petty thieves." They boarded his 118 foot Aluminum schooner the "Seamaster". "The bandits opened fire after Blake reportedly shot a .308 rifle at the thieves, wounding one in the hand " as reported by CNN. His tragic death has certainly opened a can of worms regarding defending yourself with arms. There were many at the time who felt that if he had not brought out his gun and fired, they would have simply taken what they wanted and left. Interestingly, the thieves propose their defense as self defense....go figure......
Perhaps, needless to say, I would not carry arms here in the states, however, I have spent the last 20 years visiting, sailing and powerboating in the Bahamas, and there was a time it was thought that there was a risk. Mainly to fast powerboats as they were targets for the drug trade, and many stories floated around regarding missing boats. The feeling being that the drug shipments were being brought in and then fast boats stolen to brings the goods to the states. My farther in law (at the time) had a custom Direktor's aluminum hull 42 footer, it was fast, and he always felt he might be at risk. Needless to say this was always a hot topic. Along with the topic of responding to "someone" requesting help, as this was the common rouse of bandits to get you to come close. The result of all this discussion was pretty much "each to their own ," my feeling was that many people did carry arms, but kept it to themselves.
My personal feeling is that Captains do have a legitimate right to protect themselves, crew and family, however I must point out that you may be putting yourself at greater risk by doing so.
If you do choose to carry arms, you better well know how to use firearms, and you better have a clear idea of responses you can take to this type of situation. Sort of a "risk management" approach to responding to pirates or thieves. It is often said "less is more"
Only you can decide what is right, and this clearly depends on where you might be, and whether there is real risk to life and limb.
I'm sure this will be an interesting thread on this board. There is nothing more controversial than carrying arms on board.
I await this discussion!!!!
Michael Heintz
willwheatley@starpower.net
-
Andy Denmark
Re: Guns & Pirates
Hi Lou,
This has the potential of being a very hot topic for some. Both the gun control lobby and firearm advocates are quite emotional about their respective positions on this issue.
Law enforcement experience shows that it is usually the display of a firearm that causes the potential invader to turn tail and run. My one experience validates this point but I recognize this is anectdotal. Criminals prey on those who are defenseless, almost by definition. That's their job. The fact that every state that has enacted concealed carry permits has seen reductions in violent crime is a telling statistic. On the other side, clearing customs in some countries can be complicated by several orders of magnitude, and even prohibited, if there is a firearm aboard.
Should you decide to arm yourself aboard your boat there are several things that need to be in place. Foremost is education in the operation and selection of the weapon you choose. I would take the clases and spend the $$$ necessary to obtain a legal CCW permit. There will soon be legislation that gives state-to-state reciprocity to holders of such permits. I would practice regularly with the firearm until you can operate it safely in the dark. I would urge anyone who cruises regularly with you to do the same until there's reasonable competence and confidence in the use of the weapon. It is important to know the legal aspects of self-defense as they apply to the liablilties attached to the use of deadly force. Legally, your boat confers the same rights to self-defense as your home.
Just like a proper anchor, if you don't have a firearm aboard there isn't anything else that will take its place if you need it. The oft heard statement is "In the unlikey event that you need a gun there is nothing that will substitute for it." Like a 406 mHz EPIRB, we hope and pray there will never be the need for a firearm but if you do need one it will probably save your life.
These are harsh realities and revolting to some. Some in the rest of the world aren't as peaceful and understanding as most of us sailors.
Andy Denmark
CD-27 #270 Rhiannon
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
This has the potential of being a very hot topic for some. Both the gun control lobby and firearm advocates are quite emotional about their respective positions on this issue.
Law enforcement experience shows that it is usually the display of a firearm that causes the potential invader to turn tail and run. My one experience validates this point but I recognize this is anectdotal. Criminals prey on those who are defenseless, almost by definition. That's their job. The fact that every state that has enacted concealed carry permits has seen reductions in violent crime is a telling statistic. On the other side, clearing customs in some countries can be complicated by several orders of magnitude, and even prohibited, if there is a firearm aboard.
Should you decide to arm yourself aboard your boat there are several things that need to be in place. Foremost is education in the operation and selection of the weapon you choose. I would take the clases and spend the $$$ necessary to obtain a legal CCW permit. There will soon be legislation that gives state-to-state reciprocity to holders of such permits. I would practice regularly with the firearm until you can operate it safely in the dark. I would urge anyone who cruises regularly with you to do the same until there's reasonable competence and confidence in the use of the weapon. It is important to know the legal aspects of self-defense as they apply to the liablilties attached to the use of deadly force. Legally, your boat confers the same rights to self-defense as your home.
Just like a proper anchor, if you don't have a firearm aboard there isn't anything else that will take its place if you need it. The oft heard statement is "In the unlikey event that you need a gun there is nothing that will substitute for it." Like a 406 mHz EPIRB, we hope and pray there will never be the need for a firearm but if you do need one it will probably save your life.
These are harsh realities and revolting to some. Some in the rest of the world aren't as peaceful and understanding as most of us sailors.
Andy Denmark
CD-27 #270 Rhiannon
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
-
Jacob Bogatch
Re: Guns & Pirates
Before any of you come to a conclusion, I would like to clear up a point that usually is not considered. It is very difficult to aim and hit a target on a floating platform. It is completely different from target practice on shore (or what you see in the movies). Most sailors, in my opinion, do not have a chance to hit the bad guys before inflicting self-damage to property or even more seriously, to friendly life. We carry guns as an “ego thing,” and also because of the unbearable humiliation of being robbed.
Jacob Bogatch
"Fhloston Paradise"
CD 30C #363
jbogatch@yahoo.com
Jacob Bogatch
"Fhloston Paradise"
CD 30C #363
jbogatch@yahoo.com
-
Neil Gordon
Re: Guns & Pirates
This will be an endless debate, although probably not as heated as the tiller vs. wheel discussions. <s>
The plus side is having a defense when you can't just call 911. The down side is that your chances of outgunning pirates is slim.
I've heard that flare guns are very effective at close range, though. Aim at the middle of the chest.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
The plus side is having a defense when you can't just call 911. The down side is that your chances of outgunning pirates is slim.
I've heard that flare guns are very effective at close range, though. Aim at the middle of the chest.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
-
Warren Kaplan
Re: Guns & Pirates
As others have rightly said, this question is controversial. To my mind, there is no one-answer-fits-all solution. Sir Peter Blake, as was mentioned, could possibly be alive today if he hadn't reached for that weapon. But I've also read in sailing magazines of people who have been shot when they posed no threat to the invading pirates at all. In other situations I've read where a quick acting captain got his rifle out well before the pirates got too close and squeezed off a few rounds that were enough to discourage the pirates who then turned away. Would those pirates have shot captain and crew? Your guess is a good as mine. The problem is that nobody has an ACCURATE crystal ball that can look into a pirate's mind and see if he is just after the vessel's valuables or if he is hell bent on leaving no witnesses. Nobody knows. Monday morning quarterbacking is always easy. If he had a gun he'd be alive today. If he didn't have a gun he'd be alive today. I personally am very uneasy around guns. But that's just me. I think the decision to arm or not arm when a vessel puts out largely depends on where that vessel is bound. I think I would be alot more inclined to travel with a firearm if I was cruising the waters off Southeast Asia and the Horn of Africa and Red Sea area than I would cruising the south of the US border. Just to reiterate, no two situations of piracy are identical and I would hasten to add that nobody is very experienced with this. How many sailors do you know that have gained experience in dealing with pirates by being attacked 4 or 5 times? Not many I'd guess. I also think Jacob makes a very good point. Accuracy with a gun on a rolling sea and a pitching deck may be a formidable task. AW! The only pirates I have to worry about this summer are armed with water balloons!
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
-
Michael Heintz
Re: Guns & Pirates
Captain Kaplan,
You are correct SIR, and my aim isn't to bad!!!!!
Fortunatly for us, the only Pirate we have to deal with is Pirate Captain Stumpy Chicken legs!!!!
We will meet at the Island of the Fishers, and watch for the Pirates!!
Michael Heintz
You are correct SIR, and my aim isn't to bad!!!!!
Fortunatly for us, the only Pirate we have to deal with is Pirate Captain Stumpy Chicken legs!!!!
We will meet at the Island of the Fishers, and watch for the Pirates!!
Michael Heintz
-
Will W.
A moniker sure to strike fear...
into the hearts of would be attackers. " Pirate Captain Stumpy Chicken Legs".
The most notorious appendages in the fleet. Rumor has it he likes to pet sharks.
willwheatley@starpower.net
The most notorious appendages in the fleet. Rumor has it he likes to pet sharks.
Michael Heintz wrote: Captain Kaplan,
You are correct SIR, and my aim isn't to bad!!!!!
Fortunatly for us, the only Pirate we have to deal with is Pirate Captain Stumpy Chicken legs!!!!
We will meet at the Island of the Fishers, and watch for the Pirates!!
Michael Heintz
willwheatley@starpower.net
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Guns & Pirates
I think that this should be at the top of the list of banned topics. Just the topic angers me. In reponse to the inquiry about carrying guns aboard, you will find two differing opinions, and no resolution. No opinions will likely be changed, and I can gaurantee you the longest and most useless thread on the web site.
About every three months, this topic is restarted and rehashed on rec.boats.cruising, with exactly the same conclusions made. Some believe in mounting a heavy artillery piece on the bow of their boats..others take a defensive approach and stay away from reported trouble areas, thus avoiding the issue of carrying guns.
What I have learned from experienced long time cruisers, over 6 years of reading the diatribes on rec.boats.cruising when this topic is started, is this:
If you carry a gun, you will be required to declare this gun at most cruising destinations you go to. Having done so, they will confiscate the gun for the entirety of your visit. In a lot of cases, the gun was missing when the cruiser went to check out and retrieve the gun.
Don't even think about hiding the gun, not declaring it. For if you then have to use the gun on someone, you will be in the deepest trouble of your life..and you just lost your vessel too..if not your freedom forever.
So you have the "comfort" of this gun while underway only, as most countries will lock up the gun. Seems that this allows you to protect your boat from only incidents that occur while underway then. So will your little pea shooter work against kalishnikov's and AK47's that the "pirate" carries? Depends. Probably not much protection unless you outgun them..so that committs you to carrying an arsenal onboard.
I read the Piracy reports in both Attitudes and Lattitudes and also on the internet. A vast majority of piracy happens to large freighters or big ships in the So. China Sea and that area...or Yemen, so. Africa etc, where there is a chance to find something useable or sellable. I have not read of more than 1 or 2 cruisers being bothered in the last 5 years or so..and how many thousands of cruisers are out there at any one given time? ..and over 5 years or so?
It seems to be factual, that people from the USA are far more concerned about carrying guns than the rest of the world combined. It also seems factual that you are in far more danger sailing the ICW or coastal areas of this country than you are in sailing in the Caribbean.
Another concern I have is the effect that carrying gun has on a guy. I think that it is reasonable to assume that because he feels like he has some kind of immunity from bad things happening to him ('cause he has that damn gun), he will allow his vessel to travel in areas that are riskier for that kind of activity. In other words, the guy gets a little braver because he has that gun with him. I find that this kind of person then will be tempted to try to visit the more dangerous places, simply because he has 'protection'. This is dangerous thinking.
An old Chinese lesson: To Avoid the Tiger, Avoid the Forest.
Lets get back to something more pleasant than the best tool for killing people..I can get more than I wish of that topic listening to the news.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Unprotected by Weapons of Destruction..and proud of it.
demers@sgi.com
About every three months, this topic is restarted and rehashed on rec.boats.cruising, with exactly the same conclusions made. Some believe in mounting a heavy artillery piece on the bow of their boats..others take a defensive approach and stay away from reported trouble areas, thus avoiding the issue of carrying guns.
What I have learned from experienced long time cruisers, over 6 years of reading the diatribes on rec.boats.cruising when this topic is started, is this:
If you carry a gun, you will be required to declare this gun at most cruising destinations you go to. Having done so, they will confiscate the gun for the entirety of your visit. In a lot of cases, the gun was missing when the cruiser went to check out and retrieve the gun.
Don't even think about hiding the gun, not declaring it. For if you then have to use the gun on someone, you will be in the deepest trouble of your life..and you just lost your vessel too..if not your freedom forever.
So you have the "comfort" of this gun while underway only, as most countries will lock up the gun. Seems that this allows you to protect your boat from only incidents that occur while underway then. So will your little pea shooter work against kalishnikov's and AK47's that the "pirate" carries? Depends. Probably not much protection unless you outgun them..so that committs you to carrying an arsenal onboard.
I read the Piracy reports in both Attitudes and Lattitudes and also on the internet. A vast majority of piracy happens to large freighters or big ships in the So. China Sea and that area...or Yemen, so. Africa etc, where there is a chance to find something useable or sellable. I have not read of more than 1 or 2 cruisers being bothered in the last 5 years or so..and how many thousands of cruisers are out there at any one given time? ..and over 5 years or so?
It seems to be factual, that people from the USA are far more concerned about carrying guns than the rest of the world combined. It also seems factual that you are in far more danger sailing the ICW or coastal areas of this country than you are in sailing in the Caribbean.
Another concern I have is the effect that carrying gun has on a guy. I think that it is reasonable to assume that because he feels like he has some kind of immunity from bad things happening to him ('cause he has that damn gun), he will allow his vessel to travel in areas that are riskier for that kind of activity. In other words, the guy gets a little braver because he has that gun with him. I find that this kind of person then will be tempted to try to visit the more dangerous places, simply because he has 'protection'. This is dangerous thinking.
An old Chinese lesson: To Avoid the Tiger, Avoid the Forest.
Lets get back to something more pleasant than the best tool for killing people..I can get more than I wish of that topic listening to the news.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Unprotected by Weapons of Destruction..and proud of it.
Lou Ostendorff wrote: Hello to All;
I just finished reading an interesting article in the latest Cruising World about three boats about to leave the Port of Yemen...They were asked (by an Official) if they were cruising together, and if they were carrying weapons, to which they replyed "yes" and "no" respectively...shortly after being underway, they were overtaken by several small power boats spraying automatic weapons fire through the rigging. After being robbed of all pilferable and easily fenced merchandise, they were left alone. The incident was reported but no results thus far...
My question to the Board is this...how do you feel about carrying weapons onboard and protecting your property? Is this asking for trouble, or do Captains have a legitimate right to protect themselves?
TIA, for offering your opinion on this controversial subject.
Lou Ostendorff
CD25D "Karma"
'82, #63
demers@sgi.com
-
Bill
Ditto -- Larry ....This belongs elsewhere (NM)
Larry DeMers wrote: I think that this should be at the top of the list of banned topics. Just the topic angers me. In reponse to the inquiry about carrying guns aboard, you will find two differing opinions, and no resolution. No opinions will likely be changed, and I can gaurantee you the longest and most useless thread on the web site.
About every three months, this topic is restarted and rehashed on rec.boats.cruising, with exactly the same conclusions made. Some believe in mounting a heavy artillery piece on the bow of their boats..others take a defensive approach and stay away from reported trouble areas, thus avoiding the issue of carrying guns.
What I have learned from experienced long time cruisers, over 6 years of reading the diatribes on rec.boats.cruising when this topic is started, is this:
If you carry a gun, you will be required to declare this gun at most cruising destinations you go to. Having done so, they will confiscate the gun for the entirety of your visit. In a lot of cases, the gun was missing when the cruiser went to check out and retrieve the gun.
Don't even think about hiding the gun, not declaring it. For if you then have to use the gun on someone, you will be in the deepest trouble of your life..and you just lost your vessel too..if not your freedom forever.
So you have the "comfort" of this gun while underway only, as most countries will lock up the gun. Seems that this allows you to protect your boat from only incidents that occur while underway then. So will your little pea shooter work against kalishnikov's and AK47's that the "pirate" carries? Depends. Probably not much protection unless you outgun them..so that committs you to carrying an arsenal onboard.
I read the Piracy reports in both Attitudes and Lattitudes and also on the internet. A vast majority of piracy happens to large freighters or big ships in the So. China Sea and that area...or Yemen, so. Africa etc, where there is a chance to find something useable or sellable. I have not read of more than 1 or 2 cruisers being bothered in the last 5 years or so..and how many thousands of cruisers are out there at any one given time? ..and over 5 years or so?
It seems to be factual, that people from the USA are far more concerned about carrying guns than the rest of the world combined. It also seems factual that you are in far more danger sailing the ICW or coastal areas of this country than you are in sailing in the Caribbean.
Another concern I have is the effect that carrying gun has on a guy. I think that it is reasonable to assume that because he feels like he has some kind of immunity from bad things happening to him ('cause he has that damn gun), he will allow his vessel to travel in areas that are riskier for that kind of activity. In other words, the guy gets a little braver because he has that gun with him. I find that this kind of person then will be tempted to try to visit the more dangerous places, simply because he has 'protection'. This is dangerous thinking.
An old Chinese lesson: To Avoid the Tiger, Avoid the Forest.
Lets get back to something more pleasant than the best tool for killing people..I can get more than I wish of that topic listening to the news.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Unprotected by Weapons of Destruction..and proud of it.
Lou Ostendorff wrote: Hello to All;
I just finished reading an interesting article in the latest Cruising World about three boats about to leave the Port of Yemen...They were asked (by an Official) if they were cruising together, and if they were carrying weapons, to which they replyed "yes" and "no" respectively...shortly after being underway, they were overtaken by several small power boats spraying automatic weapons fire through the rigging. After being robbed of all pilferable and easily fenced merchandise, they were left alone. The incident was reported but no results thus far...
My question to the Board is this...how do you feel about carrying weapons onboard and protecting your property? Is this asking for trouble, or do Captains have a legitimate right to protect themselves?
TIA, for offering your opinion on this controversial subject.
Lou Ostendorff
CD25D "Karma"
'82, #63
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
-
Neil Gordon
Re: Guns & Pirates
>>The only pirates I have to worry about this summer are armed with water balloons!<<
Forget the water balloons... the broken balloons do bad things to seals, etc. (I know, it's not easy to have fun anymore.)
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
Forget the water balloons... the broken balloons do bad things to seals, etc. (I know, it's not easy to have fun anymore.)
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: Guns & Pirates
>>I think that this should be at the top of the list of banned topics.<<
This topic wasn't started by someone with an opinion, it was started by someone with a question. There's been meaningful discussion.
There are lots of "discussions" where positions are entrenched and proponents of one side or the other will never change. But there are also those who are new to issues and need information.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
This topic wasn't started by someone with an opinion, it was started by someone with a question. There's been meaningful discussion.
There are lots of "discussions" where positions are entrenched and proponents of one side or the other will never change. But there are also those who are new to issues and need information.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
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Chip
Re: Guns & Pirates
This is the Cape Dory Information Exchange, isn't it? The original post came from mentioning an article that was in Cruising world, about pirates and guns. If you don't like this topic, maybe you should just avoid this thread all together, but others may benefit from it. Beware of the thought police!Neil Gordon wrote: >>I think that this should be at the top of the list of banned topics.<<
Chip
chip88673@yahoo.com