I sure miss the Lake Erie fresh water days when I didn't have to fool with thru-hull problems. Now that I'm in salt water, my thru-hulls need a lot more TLC! I've had difficulty opening and closing 2 thru-hulls for the past 2 years and have had to use the gentle assistor (hammer tapping) to get the tapered plug unseated to open and close them. I'm hauling the boat out (a CD36 with Spartan thru-hulls) in 3 weeks for work, and want to fix this problem. I'm considering whether or not to try to use the proper materials and method to refit the tapered plugs to their matching housing, or to purchase new ones and remove and replace. I've tried to fix one of them some years ago, but the fix didn't keep. The grooves seemed minor and I smoothed them out well enough, until I moved west to the big blue ocean salt water environment. Can anyone recommend materials and method to fix these, or relate your experiences on a fix or replace? Seems to me Calder has something in his book, which I have onboard. I'd like to avoid the hassle of removing and rebedding them if I can, but the main goal is to do it right. Thanks guys, Tim.
tim@iga.org
Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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BIll Goldsmith
Re: Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
Tim
First of all, just to be nit-picky and technical, it sounds like you are talking about the "seacocks" not the "thru-hulls." The thru hull is the assembly that actually gets mounted in a hole in the hull. The seacock is the valve that attaches to the thru-hull. IF your thru-hulls are questionable, they probably need replacement. But if your Spartan seacocks are sticking they probably have life left in them.
What do you mean by "the fix did not keep?" If the last maintenance on the seacocks was "some years ago" then it's not surprising that they are sticking again.
The Spartan seacocks should be disassembled and regreased at each haulout. If the plug and the barrel don't appear to be perfect mates anymore, Spartan and others sell "lapping compound" which is an abrasive. You coat the plug with the compound and work it in the barrel repeatedly until they seem to be mates again. Clean it all up and apply Spartan ($$$) or other grease (Morey's is recommended by many on this board) and reassemble. Relapping the seacocks will make them more watertight and they will operate more smoothly because it will prevent point-loading metal to metal inside the unit.
New seacocks might be nice, but I wouldn't cast these aside until you've tried some TLC.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
goldy@bestweb.net
First of all, just to be nit-picky and technical, it sounds like you are talking about the "seacocks" not the "thru-hulls." The thru hull is the assembly that actually gets mounted in a hole in the hull. The seacock is the valve that attaches to the thru-hull. IF your thru-hulls are questionable, they probably need replacement. But if your Spartan seacocks are sticking they probably have life left in them.
What do you mean by "the fix did not keep?" If the last maintenance on the seacocks was "some years ago" then it's not surprising that they are sticking again.
The Spartan seacocks should be disassembled and regreased at each haulout. If the plug and the barrel don't appear to be perfect mates anymore, Spartan and others sell "lapping compound" which is an abrasive. You coat the plug with the compound and work it in the barrel repeatedly until they seem to be mates again. Clean it all up and apply Spartan ($$$) or other grease (Morey's is recommended by many on this board) and reassemble. Relapping the seacocks will make them more watertight and they will operate more smoothly because it will prevent point-loading metal to metal inside the unit.
New seacocks might be nice, but I wouldn't cast these aside until you've tried some TLC.
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
Tim Smale wrote: I sure miss the Lake Erie fresh water days when I didn't have to fool with thru-hull problems. Now that I'm in salt water, my thru-hulls need a lot more TLC! I've had difficulty opening and closing 2 thru-hulls for the past 2 years and have had to use the gentle assistor (hammer tapping) to get the tapered plug unseated to open and close them. I'm hauling the boat out (a CD36 with Spartan thru-hulls) in 3 weeks for work, and want to fix this problem. I'm considering whether or not to try to use the proper materials and method to refit the tapered plugs to their matching housing, or to purchase new ones and remove and replace. I've tried to fix one of them some years ago, but the fix didn't keep. The grooves seemed minor and I smoothed them out well enough, until I moved west to the big blue ocean salt water environment. Can anyone recommend materials and method to fix these, or relate your experiences on a fix or replace? Seems to me Calder has something in his book, which I have onboard. I'd like to avoid the hassle of removing and rebedding them if I can, but the main goal is to do it right. Thanks guys, Tim.
goldy@bestweb.net
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Warren Kaplan
Lapping Compound!
Tim
We've had many discussions on this board about this very thing in the past. You need lapping compound to smooth things out. Larry Demers wrote a good piece about it if memory serves. Look in the archives under seacocks or even under lapping compound and I'll bet a ton of answers come for you.
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
We've had many discussions on this board about this very thing in the past. You need lapping compound to smooth things out. Larry Demers wrote a good piece about it if memory serves. Look in the archives under seacocks or even under lapping compound and I'll bet a ton of answers come for you.
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
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d. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Morey's Info.....
Tim,
Search the site for "Morey's Info". You will get all the information you need to buy it from NAPA. It is much better than the Spartan stuff....
Hanalei
Search the site for "Morey's Info". You will get all the information you need to buy it from NAPA. It is much better than the Spartan stuff....
Hanalei
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Boyd
Re: Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
Hi Tim...
I recently rebuilt all the seacocks on my boat. The previous owner had not maintained them at all and 2 were completely frozen. I lapped them and greased them very well. Did the best job I know how. Used advice found on this board. Got the lapping compound and grease at NAPA.
Results after a year... 1 seacock leaks a little. The rest are very good. I will haul this spring and will clean and grease them again. New ones will cost you a bundle and its a pain to reset the backing plates. I remade all new backing plates, epoxy coated them and rebedded them... one screw leaks a little and I will have to redo it. Not exactly 100% success here despite attention to detail. Go for the rebuilding first its cheap and has a high degree of success.
P.S. after degreasing soak all bronze parts in vinegar for a day or so.. it removes all green and brown corrosion. Then buff with a wire wheel. Makes the parts look new and me feel better.
Boyd
Tern30@aol.com
I recently rebuilt all the seacocks on my boat. The previous owner had not maintained them at all and 2 were completely frozen. I lapped them and greased them very well. Did the best job I know how. Used advice found on this board. Got the lapping compound and grease at NAPA.
Results after a year... 1 seacock leaks a little. The rest are very good. I will haul this spring and will clean and grease them again. New ones will cost you a bundle and its a pain to reset the backing plates. I remade all new backing plates, epoxy coated them and rebedded them... one screw leaks a little and I will have to redo it. Not exactly 100% success here despite attention to detail. Go for the rebuilding first its cheap and has a high degree of success.
P.S. after degreasing soak all bronze parts in vinegar for a day or so.. it removes all green and brown corrosion. Then buff with a wire wheel. Makes the parts look new and me feel better.
Boyd
Tim Smale wrote: I sure miss the Lake Erie fresh water days when I didn't have to fool with thru-hull problems. Now that I'm in salt water, my thru-hulls need a lot more TLC! I've had difficulty opening and closing 2 thru-hulls for the past 2 years and have had to use the gentle assistor (hammer tapping) to get the tapered plug unseated to open and close them. I'm hauling the boat out (a CD36 with Spartan thru-hulls) in 3 weeks for work, and want to fix this problem. I'm considering whether or not to try to use the proper materials and method to refit the tapered plugs to their matching housing, or to purchase new ones and remove and replace. I've tried to fix one of them some years ago, but the fix didn't keep. The grooves seemed minor and I smoothed them out well enough, until I moved west to the big blue ocean salt water environment. Can anyone recommend materials and method to fix these, or relate your experiences on a fix or replace? Seems to me Calder has something in his book, which I have onboard. I'd like to avoid the hassle of removing and rebedding them if I can, but the main goal is to do it right. Thanks guys, Tim.
Tern30@aol.com
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Leo MacDonald
Seacock Annual Maintenance
Hi Tim,
It is not GREAT to sail a CD on the Ocean!!
I would highly endorse the comment
"The Spartan seacocks should be disassembled and regreased at each haulout."
I purchased a Spartan Seacock Maintenance Kit and as said it is $$. The 'grinding compound' in the kit seems too course and VERY abrasive. I bought some 'fine' grade valve-lapping compound for those times it does require some lapping. Most of the time with an annual 'seacock maintenance program' just clean & re-grease will be required.
How's that ketch sailing?
Fair Winds,
Leo
'Evening Light' CD33 #38
(Formally of the Ketch 'Heather Ann' CD30K #57)
macdore@aol.com
It is not GREAT to sail a CD on the Ocean!!
I would highly endorse the comment
"The Spartan seacocks should be disassembled and regreased at each haulout."
I purchased a Spartan Seacock Maintenance Kit and as said it is $$. The 'grinding compound' in the kit seems too course and VERY abrasive. I bought some 'fine' grade valve-lapping compound for those times it does require some lapping. Most of the time with an annual 'seacock maintenance program' just clean & re-grease will be required.
How's that ketch sailing?
Fair Winds,
Leo
'Evening Light' CD33 #38
(Formally of the Ketch 'Heather Ann' CD30K #57)
macdore@aol.com
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BobF
Re: Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
When I serviced the Spartan seacocks on my CD28, I purchased automobile engine valve lapping compound from Pep Boys (an auto supply and parts discount chain). It came in two grades, course and fine. (And didn't cost an arm and a leg.) The course will remove irregularities quickly (relatively speaking) and then the fine will polish to a nice, tight fit. I used LubriPlate grease 130-AA (the kind that Max Prop uses), although now I've discovered that LubriPlate also makes a Special Marine Grease, which I will use for this year's seacock maintenance. Some of the LubriPlate products, including the Marine Grease, can be ordered directly from them on their web site. Click on "Consumer Products".
Good Luck,
BobF, s/v Zephyr CD28 #230
Good Luck,
BobF, s/v Zephyr CD28 #230
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Tom
Re: Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
Same topic different issue. What type of bedding compound does everyone use when installing thru-hulls? 3M 5200??
tomb5050@aol.com
tomb5050@aol.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Thru-hull maintenance question; replace or refurbish?
Lord NO! 3M 5200 does not belong onboard your boat. That is for adhering two or more surfaces that will never be taken apart again, like the deck to hull joint..never is not an exaggeration here. Although there is a spray that will reportedly dissolve a 5200 bond, it has never worked satisfactorily for me yet. Don't use 5200 unless the things being sealed are never to be separated again without being destroyed.
I use LifeCaulk and also 3M 4200 which is a good bedding agent with some of the resiliency that 5200 has, but the bond is easier to break with 4200 (or is it 5100? I be cornfused captain!) A thruhull is something that you want to stay put, but also be able to be repaired without major action with the SawsAll.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
I use LifeCaulk and also 3M 4200 which is a good bedding agent with some of the resiliency that 5200 has, but the bond is easier to break with 4200 (or is it 5100? I be cornfused captain!) A thruhull is something that you want to stay put, but also be able to be repaired without major action with the SawsAll.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Tom wrote: Same topic different issue. What type of bedding compound does everyone use when installing thru-hulls? 3M 5200??
demers@sgi.com
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Don Carr
Stay away from 5200 IMHO
STAY AWAY FROM 5200. The only useful place I've found to use the 5200 (and this does not apply to CD's) is keel to hull joints. In fact I've had an electronics installer tell me that they use 5200 on transducer thru-hulls on peoples boats they don't like.
FWIW
Don Carr
carrds@us.ibm.com
FWIW
Don Carr
carrds@us.ibm.com
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Tim Smale
Re: Seacock Annual Maintenance
Thanks for the great advice guys. The seacocks are the problem, not the thru-hulls. I did replace one thru-hull three years ago and it's held up fine. The seacocks are another story, and I'm on an every other year haul-out plan for bottom paint, and will continue the same for the seacocks as well.
The ketch sails great on the big blue, although there's no wind in SoCal. We spend a lot of time motoring, sometimes motor sailing back and forth to Catalina. I miss the Lake Erie winds, but not the thunderstorms and the 1/2 season compared to CA. Fair winds...
tim@iga.org
The ketch sails great on the big blue, although there's no wind in SoCal. We spend a lot of time motoring, sometimes motor sailing back and forth to Catalina. I miss the Lake Erie winds, but not the thunderstorms and the 1/2 season compared to CA. Fair winds...
tim@iga.org