CD 22 self steering

[mike]

I am interested in outfitting my CD 22 with a self steering unit.
Most wind vane type self steering systems are designed for boats 24 feet and above. Does anyone know of any system, or plans to build a system, for boats under 24 feet?
Thanks!



mikeleigh@aaahawk.com

[john doyle]

I am interested in outfitting my CD 22 with a self steering unit.
Most wind vane type self steering systems are designed for boats 24 feet and above. Does anyone know of any system, or plans to build a system, for boats under 24 feet?
Thanks!

If a vane will steer a 24 footer, it will surely steer a 22 footer. I have owned a couple of different vanes & they are great.
john
cd31 #18 Bonnie Blue



john.doyle@kmctelecom.com

[Ken Coit]

There are a couple of books on the subject. Some are undoubtedly out of print, but available on the used book market. The links below may be helpful.

http://www.soft.donbass.com/igor/YACHTA ... r_sail.htm

http://www.geocities.com/jvandrey/flick ... ering.html

http://users.silverlink.net/~agunther/SelfSteer.html

Many others can be found by searching on "self-steering boat"

Also

Letcher, John S. Jr(1974)Self-Steering for Sailing Craft, International Marine
A guide book to self steering systems on small boats. Lots of theory (with math!) and applications. Letcher is a PhD in aeronautics and applied math and has tested the applications in the book on offshore passages including some to Hawaii.

Woas, Lee(1982)Self-Steering Without a Windvane, Seven Seas Press
The subtitle of this book is "A Comprehensive Manual of Natural and Sheet-To-Tiller Steering Systems for Sailboats" and that's exactly what it is. An excellent guide with lots of illustrations and tips. Out of print.

Have fun!


Ken

I am interested in outfitting my CD 22 with a self steering unit.
Most wind vane type self steering systems are designed for boats 24 feet and above. Does anyone know of any system, or plans to build a system, for boats under 24 feet?
Thanks!

PPPPparfait@nc.rr.com

[Bill]

Hi Mike

here are a couple of additional links for home made units:

<a href="http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self ... tm">Walter Murrary's Vane</A>

and

<a href="http://gamma.nic.fi/~poltsi/">A Swedish vane</A>

Walt is retired I think and just likes to help others with this project.

I personally like boat designs and they look to be doable for smaller boats.

Fair Winds

Bill

I am interested in outfitting my CD 22 with a self steering unit.
Most wind vane type self steering systems are designed for boats 24 feet and above. Does anyone know of any system, or plans to build a system, for boats under 24 feet?
Thanks!

cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Bob]

I built a very satisfacory wind vane self steering unit for my Typhoon Weekender. It is a direct to tiller setup with no servo in the water. It works quite well on any winds forward of the beam it starts to wander a bit off the wind. I have a lot of fun with it and it really is nice to be able to single hand and still be able to have a sandwich in one hand and a drink in the other. I used an idea from Lechter, Self steering for Small Craft. (I think that was the title)

Bob
S/V First Lady



rcvaneck@aol.com

[John Nuttall]

......that you might find appropriate. Check out the info on the attached website.

I am seriously considering one myself, based on a strong recomendation.

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC



aimless@nc.rr.com

[john doyle]

......that you might find appropriate. Check out the info on the attached website.

I am seriously considering one myself, based on a strong recomendation.

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC

I had the man who designed the cape horn measure my boat while he was here installing one on a boat in my marina. They seem like good vanes. The only thing that scares most people is the big hole drilled in the transom. We are planning to purchase one for our 31 & I have the measurements if anyone with a 31 is interested.
John CD31 #18
Bonnie Blue



john.doyle@kmctelecom.com

[John Nuttall]

Hi John,

As we both know, there isn't a perfect design......just one with fewer compromises I suppose....

I have thought about this unit and some others...Flemming, Monitor, Navik to name a few. They all have good reputations, and positive owner testimonials. Riggers seem to give favorable opinions to all of them.

So I started looking at the differences. The Cape Horn is the only unit that doesn't hang a massive heavy structure off the transom. It's got plenty of support INSIDE and that support is out of the elements. This translates to less "squatting" due to weight plus less corrosion of the mounting hardware.

From what I can gather it's more sensitive than the other units and actually works going dead downwind. Also a small tiller style auto pilot can be hooked up to the quadrant (again below decks).

Also appealing to me is the fact that all the control lines are below decks. Simple clean design & clutterfree installation are to me very smart.

RE: the hole in the transom ??? I am certain that our exhaust hose thru hull connection, with corroding clamps and rotting hoses pose a danger many orders of magnitude higher than the Cape Horn.

The tens or hundreds of thousands of psi necessary to shear off that horizontal tube and hole the transom could only come from such a hugely catastrophic event that may not be survivable anyway.....

My only delema is the choice between the Cape Horn or an Asymetrical spinnaker. From which would I benefit the most ????

But then it's Christmass....maybee I'll get both

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC



aimless@nc.rr.com

[len]

john

i have a monitor on my CD31 and don't know anything about the Cape Horn but i disagree with a couple of the points you made: at least on the 31, it's easy to set up the monitor with no aft squatting; it's an advantage to have all the lines on deck, visible, easily cleaned with a hose or rainwater etc; downwind steering is difficult for every windvane i've ever seen or read about, especially in light to moderate wind, it's hard for me to believe the Cape Horn is that much better

len



md.frel@nwh.org

[Tod Mills]

lines to the tiller and still be able to rotate the vane for setting your course?

Thanks,

Tod



htmills@bright.net

[John Nuttall]

Hi Len!

Thanks for your post. Isn't this a great board....we have three CD31 owners posting in the same thread !!! I just love it...

I want to reply to your comments, not to be arguementative, but because I really am hashing out my thoughts here, and I am going to get a self-steering unit. It's simply a matter of sorting thru the choices and their attendant tradeoffs.

So here is my reply to your comments. Thoughtfully consider them and please, if you see my course needs correcting, feel free to do so!

First of all let me say that if my boat had a Monitor on it when I got her, I am certian I'd be very happy. They are top-notch units to be sure. Solid, tough, dependable. I have no criticisms of Monitor's per se. Monitor was the first unit I considered when I started researching for my purchase. I like the Flemming units too. My friend has one on his CD33 and he raves about it. It is nicely made.

But one of the concerns many CD owners have (and many other boats w/overhangs) is that too much weight in the stern makes them squat. This has been discussed widely here, with lots of suggestions about what to do in order to get our boats to sit on their lines.

So way back in '98 I got the impression that one should be careful with regard to what we hang off our transoms. (and put in in our cockpit lockers etc) One of the impressive things about the Cape Horn Steering unit is it's low weight, and the fact that much of that weight is inboard, forward of the transom. So to my way of thinking reducing the weight and moving it forward would be an "anti-squatting" measure.

Additionally, as I mentioned, much of the unit is inboard, below decks. All of the mounting points are out of the weather, hopefully minimizing corrosion. (my friend's Flemming had a failure at sea due to a corroded mounting part). Being below decks, the control lines (or ss wire if you choose) don't need washdowns as they would require up on deck, nor do they degrade due to UV and the other elements.

As for downwind performance, my first thoughts were skeptical too! I have no personal experience with the Cape Horn. A delivery captain I know has commented that they do well downwind, and that's all the evidence I have to form an opinion upon. Hopefully someone who owns a Cape Horn will get into this discussion. I suppose I could log onto "that other bulletin board" for opinions, but there are mean people there..

Please follow the link to Cape Horn that's attached to my earlier post and check it out. I'd be interested in your comments.

Happy New Year

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC



aimless@nc.rr.com

[john doyle]

Hi Len!

Thanks for your post. Isn't this a great board....we have three CD31 owners posting in the same thread !!! I just love it...

I want to reply to your comments, not to be arguementative, but because I really am hashing out my thoughts here, and I am going to get a self-steering unit. It's simply a matter of sorting thru the choices and their attendant tradeoffs.

So here is my reply to your comments. Thoughtfully consider them and please, if you see my course needs correcting, feel free to do so!

First of all let me say that if my boat had a Monitor on it when I got her, I am certian I'd be very happy. They are top-notch units to be sure. Solid, tough, dependable. I have no criticisms of Monitor's per se. Monitor was the first unit I considered when I started researching for my purchase. I like the Flemming units too. My friend has one on his CD33 and he raves about it. It is nicely made.

But one of the concerns many CD owners have (and many other boats w/overhangs) is that too much weight in the stern makes them squat. This has been discussed widely here, with lots of suggestions about what to do in order to get our boats to sit on their lines.

So way back in '98 I got the impression that one should be careful with regard to what we hang off our transoms. (and put in in our cockpit lockers etc) One of the impressive things about the Cape Horn Steering unit is it's low weight, and the fact that much of that weight is inboard, forward of the transom. So to my way of thinking reducing the weight and moving it forward would be an "anti-squatting" measure.

Additionally, as I mentioned, much of the unit is inboard, below decks. All of the mounting points are out of the weather, hopefully minimizing corrosion. (my friend's Flemming had a failure at sea due to a corroded mounting part). Being below decks, the control lines (or ss wire if you choose) don't need washdowns as they would require up on deck, nor do they degrade due to UV and the other elements.

As for downwind performance, my first thoughts were skeptical too! I have no personal experience with the Cape Horn. A delivery captain I know has commented that they do well downwind, and that's all the evidence I have to form an opinion upon. Hopefully someone who owns a Cape Horn will get into this discussion. I suppose I could log onto "that other bulletin board" for opinions, but there are mean people there..

Please follow the link to Cape Horn that's attached to my earlier post and check it out. I'd be interested in your comments.

Happy New Year

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC

Down wind performance: I had a RVG vane on one of my boats & sailed down wind in 25+ kts of wind with the spinnaker up for several hours without touching anything but a beer & a book. I have looked at all the new vanes & actually met the designer of the cape horn. I don't think a couple of pounds hanging off the stern is that important, my RVG was very heavy compared to the newer vanes. Besides if the vane is steering, where are we going to be? I like to sit below or under the dodger so that's a 150 lbs not near the stern. I think all wind vanes today are well made & will steer in almost any condition if we balance our sails. E-mail Yves, who designed the Cape Horn @ mail@capehorn.com with questions.
The "other" John



john.doyle@kmctelecom.com

[mike]

Wow! What a board!
Thanks for all of your suggestions. I'll take a look at the Cape Horn.



mikeleigh@aaahawk.com

[john doyle]

......that you might find appropriate. Check out the info on the attached website.

I am seriously considering one myself, based on a strong recomendation.

John
s/v Aimless
CD31 #28
Hmpt: Oriental, NC

I sent an E-mail to Cape Horn & here is the answer:
I also kept the measurements : LMT 22.5 in., HWT 53 in., HWL 24 in.,
rudder
55 x 19 in., so I have the info needed to build a Cape Horn Jean-du-Sud
for
the Cape Dory 31.
On group purchases, we can give a discount which can reach 15% when the
number of units ordered is above 5.
Fair winds,
Yves Gélinas



john.doyle@kmctelecom.com

[Tod Mills]

I don't have a CD 22, but I first started experimenting with self steering with the aid of John Letcher's book a little over a year ago. Sailing a beam reach or higher, the very inexpensive sheet-to-tiller system was not too hard to get working, but I don't have it dialed in yet for off the wind. One big drawback is that it does take some experimenting to come up with the right combination. I sail on Lake Erie and have sailed as much as about 15 or 20 miles without touching the helm. According to Letcher, if you have it tuned properly it will hold a course in varying wind strengths from a near calm up to reefing time without having to fool with it. I've found that to be the case with my boat. Of course, if you alter course or change your sails you have to set it up again. With practice it goes pretty quickly. Can't beat the price of the method.

The Oar Club has a very well written explanation of the principles behind sheet-to-tiller: www.oarclub.org. It really helps a lot to understand the principles and I found that working it out (to the extent that I have) for my boat helped me to better understand my boat and sailing in general. Plus, it's really cool to be sitting there eating lunch while the boat sails herself. The control line from the sheet working back and forth in very small motions, the tiller keeping time...the boat wandering very little from the intended course. One chilly black night I sailed from my home port of Sandusky over to South Bass, the string and elastic doing their thing while I scootched up close behind the cabin out of the wind and keeping warm and comfy.

The commercial windvanes are pretty expensive (although worth it I'm sure if you were voyaging offshore or otherwise really relied on it). In my opinion the Cape Horn is certainly the most aesthetically pleasing by far and it has so few moving parts it's pretty amazing to me. There is also the page that has a bunch of others, Monitor, Navik, Aries, etc. I think the Navik was designed expressly for small boats. There is also Windpilot (www.windpilot.de) with the Pacific Light and the Sailomat (www.sailomat.com)

Someone mentioned Walter Murray's web page.....I have been working on a design for my boat based much on his and have had some questions for him...He's a real helpful friendly guy. Building your own could really save you a lot of money.

I've met another person like Bob who used a vane-only (no oar) satisfactorily....