Has anyone ever removed their cabin floor to gain access to the bilge? I need to scrub my nasty bilge, install a bilge pump, and sand/varnish the floor. Anyone had any luck with removal? It seems that with removing the bungs and screws should allow me to pull it up and gain access to the bilge.
Any comments would be appreciated before I spend a weekend on this project.....
Stuart
CD 25 "Yankee Cowboy"
st1975@yahoo.com
Removing cabin floor
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Be careful, be VERY careful....
Captain,
Be careful what ya do with that sole, Sir. It may look like a teak and holy sole, but in fact it is a very, very thin veneer over marine plywood made to look like solid wood. The slightest sanding, and you will break through the veneer and have to replace the whole thing. Good luck to you, let us know how you make out....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30c
Be careful what ya do with that sole, Sir. It may look like a teak and holy sole, but in fact it is a very, very thin veneer over marine plywood made to look like solid wood. The slightest sanding, and you will break through the veneer and have to replace the whole thing. Good luck to you, let us know how you make out....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30c
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Bill
Re: Removing cabin floor
Stuart
I too would like to gain access to the area under the cabin sole. After initial investigation, it appears that at least on the 25D there is a fiberglass liner which is a part of the hull liner and it is "glued" to the plywood floor. I have a very nice chunk of space under to sole which would make great storage enhancement (like an added water tank), but am afraid to try and remove in fear of finding a big chunk of fiberglass lying underneath the wood.
If you find out additional information please let me know.
Thanks and FW
Bill
S/V Rhapsody (the original)
CD25D
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
I too would like to gain access to the area under the cabin sole. After initial investigation, it appears that at least on the 25D there is a fiberglass liner which is a part of the hull liner and it is "glued" to the plywood floor. I have a very nice chunk of space under to sole which would make great storage enhancement (like an added water tank), but am afraid to try and remove in fear of finding a big chunk of fiberglass lying underneath the wood.
If you find out additional information please let me know.
Thanks and FW
Bill
S/V Rhapsody (the original)
CD25D
Stuart wrote: Has anyone ever removed their cabin floor to gain access to the bilge? I need to scrub my nasty bilge, install a bilge pump, and sand/varnish the floor. Anyone had any luck with removal? It seems that with removing the bungs and screws should allow me to pull it up and gain access to the bilge.
Any comments would be appreciated before I spend a weekend on this project.....
Stuart
CD 25 "Yankee Cowboy"
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
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Leo MacDonald
Re: Removing cabin floor
Hi Stuart,
I will second Bill's observation.
On 'Heather Ann'(CD30K) the cabin sole is a plywood and thin teak veneer sandwich glued to the fiberglass hull liner. Gaining additional access to the bilge requires forethought and carefully cutting through the wood AND GRP.
We did go with a third bilge access hatch, primarily to gain access to the knotmeter sending unit with a side benefit of increased storage
And, as Dave said, 'be careful'.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
I will second Bill's observation.
On 'Heather Ann'(CD30K) the cabin sole is a plywood and thin teak veneer sandwich glued to the fiberglass hull liner. Gaining additional access to the bilge requires forethought and carefully cutting through the wood AND GRP.
We did go with a third bilge access hatch, primarily to gain access to the knotmeter sending unit with a side benefit of increased storage
And, as Dave said, 'be careful'.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Removing cabin floor
Leo,
This is an area that I was thinking about also..another access hatch forward of the bilge slightly..about 2 ft. back from the cabin bulkhead. How did you handle that frp trough for the head shower water? Does it come out ok? We are using it for canned pop stowage now..had to add a 2x2 wood piece as filler, to keep the cans from rolling around at night (!!). But the area would be a good storage area if access could be gained.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
This is an area that I was thinking about also..another access hatch forward of the bilge slightly..about 2 ft. back from the cabin bulkhead. How did you handle that frp trough for the head shower water? Does it come out ok? We are using it for canned pop stowage now..had to add a 2x2 wood piece as filler, to keep the cans from rolling around at night (!!). But the area would be a good storage area if access could be gained.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Leo MacDonald wrote: Hi Stuart,
I will second Bill's observation.
On 'Heather Ann'(CD30K) the cabin sole is a plywood and thin teak veneer sandwich glued to the fiberglass hull liner. Gaining additional access to the bilge requires forethought and carefully cutting through the wood AND GRP.
We did go with a third bilge access hatch, primarily to gain access to the knotmeter sending unit with a side benefit of increased storage
And, as Dave said, 'be careful'.
Fair Winds,
Leo
demers@sgi.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: Removing cabin floor
I have a 1979 CD36 and last year I pulled up the floor in the main saloon in order to replace a couple of water tanks that live down there. I don't know if the CD25 is similar, but on my boat the whole main saloon floor is one piece of plwood covered as was mentioned earlier with a teak/holly veneer. After removing the bungs, screws and some trim pieces, I managed to pull the whole thing up. Now on my boat there is no plastic liner. The floor is just screwed down to a timber grid and if your floor is glued to a liner of some kind that may prove to be a problem for you. Depending on how old your boat is you may be fine sanding the floor. The teak veneer on my boat was pretty thick....as evidenced by a couple of worn through spots where the ladder hits....I'm guessing about 1/8" or more. You don't need to sand a lot off to get it back. My floors had never been finished off....just unfinished wood, so I had to sand off over 20years of dirt, stains, nicks, dings, etc. I used a random orbital sander. Looks pretty good now.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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Tony Betz
Removing sole on 33
Recently removed mine from a 1981 33. Supply yourself with a cardboard box for the splintered pieces! In addition to screws, discovered sole to be held in place with some tenacious cement. A thin, flat steel bar will be helpful for breaking the seal. On the 33, the fit in the salon area is such that you will need to remove locker doors and do some fancy gymnastics to extricate the single piece; perhaps other boats are similar in design. Elevate fwd. edge first, keeping stbd. corner high. Area aft by galley is complicated by sole extending under sink cabinetry, and lots of cement to fill in void caused by curvature of the pan.
When I replaced mine, I used two pieces for the salon area, with a seam to port side of table.
Recommend drilling several 1/2 inch holes in the pan for drainage. Water can get under the sole from the mast, or by overfilling the water tanks with inspection cover off (how could that ever happen, you ask????).
Original sole material was not sealed on underside. Water could be absorbed and lead to blackening or bubbles under fresh varnish on top. Original veneer (over the marine ply) very thin, strongly advise against ever using sandpaper to remove old varnish.
Good luck, best regareds from Maine, Tony Betz, 'Wildings'
wildings@ncia.net
When I replaced mine, I used two pieces for the salon area, with a seam to port side of table.
Recommend drilling several 1/2 inch holes in the pan for drainage. Water can get under the sole from the mast, or by overfilling the water tanks with inspection cover off (how could that ever happen, you ask????).
Original sole material was not sealed on underside. Water could be absorbed and lead to blackening or bubbles under fresh varnish on top. Original veneer (over the marine ply) very thin, strongly advise against ever using sandpaper to remove old varnish.
Good luck, best regareds from Maine, Tony Betz, 'Wildings'
wildings@ncia.net
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John Nuttall
Teak & Holly Ply
Here is an interesting site with info about this plywood. Somewhere on a different site I saw Teak & holly veneer one could buy and glue down over existing sole. that could be beneficial...
If you examine your pan closely (use a flashlight and a mirror-on-a-stick tool) you will see rienforcements in the pan than run athwartships (like "floors" on a wooden boat). It should be possible to route out the plywood sole and create an access hatch between these "floors". With some good carpentry skills and planning good solid hatches could be created that would look like orig. equipment.
At worst it's a good arguement why SHMBO should let you buy that new 3/4 hp Porter Cable Plunge Router....
John
s/v aimless
CD31 #28
Lizard Lick, NC
aimless@nc.rr.com
If you examine your pan closely (use a flashlight and a mirror-on-a-stick tool) you will see rienforcements in the pan than run athwartships (like "floors" on a wooden boat). It should be possible to route out the plywood sole and create an access hatch between these "floors". With some good carpentry skills and planning good solid hatches could be created that would look like orig. equipment.
At worst it's a good arguement why SHMBO should let you buy that new 3/4 hp Porter Cable Plunge Router....
John
s/v aimless
CD31 #28
Lizard Lick, NC
aimless@nc.rr.com
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Leo MacDonald
Bilge access hatch
Hi Larry,
Heather Ann, ‘77 model year, had two factory installed cabin bilge access hatches on the forward & aft ends of the main salon sole. Many owners (?) before me had a knotmeter sending unit placed half way between the access hatches. Inaccessible - I could barely reach it with one hand and a visual was out of the question.
While refurbishing the decks ($$$) in '97/'98 I had Whitby Boat cut out and dress up the third bilge access hatch (approx. 1/2 way between the first two), basically a rectangle cut through the wood and GRP so as to replicate the likeness of the other two. They added nice trim pieces to the hatch and surround and installed aluminum lips from below to form a ledge for the hatch to rest. A strait forward job, if you’re handy with woodworking and GRP The wood part is my weak area!
Heather Ann doesn't have a frp trough for the head shower water. A small holding area in the head sole drains directly to the bilge at the aft end of the head area. No hot water on the boat, AND me & cold water showers are incompatible - used a 'Solar Shower' in the cockpit
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
Heather Ann, ‘77 model year, had two factory installed cabin bilge access hatches on the forward & aft ends of the main salon sole. Many owners (?) before me had a knotmeter sending unit placed half way between the access hatches. Inaccessible - I could barely reach it with one hand and a visual was out of the question.
While refurbishing the decks ($$$) in '97/'98 I had Whitby Boat cut out and dress up the third bilge access hatch (approx. 1/2 way between the first two), basically a rectangle cut through the wood and GRP so as to replicate the likeness of the other two. They added nice trim pieces to the hatch and surround and installed aluminum lips from below to form a ledge for the hatch to rest. A strait forward job, if you’re handy with woodworking and GRP
The wood part is my weak area! Heather Ann doesn't have a frp trough for the head shower water. A small holding area in the head sole drains directly to the bilge at the aft end of the head area. No hot water on the boat, AND me & cold water showers are incompatible - used a 'Solar Shower' in the cockpit
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: Bilge access hatch
Hi Leo,
Thanks for responding. Let me see if I have this correct..Heather Ann has two access hatches in the cabin sole, no water trough from the head to the bilge, and now a third hatch between the other two. Wow..things did change in their building of the CD30 by 1983, 6 years later.
In my boat, the head has a teak hatch (about 10 x7in.) in the floor, for water drainage when showering (we do not have pressure water either..by choice, so no showering in the head area..bad for mildew anyway..we also use a sun shower in the cockpit). The water from this hatch goes down into a white frp trough, about 8-9 in. wide, that is attached to the underside of the teak & holly floor/frp sole combination. This trough goes straight back to the rear most cabinfloor mounted hatch, where it is impounded, with a drain hole that is usually plugged off with a rubber stopper.
This trough is nice, because we store about 3 cases of pepsi cans up that chute, and find they keep quite cool, and are located low and on the center line of the boat. With the aid of a 2x2 that i stuffed up the chute also, the cans make no noise (now!) when things are rolly out. In use, this chute allows the cans to roll down and replace the one you just took out, so it is a self-feeding storage area kind of...heh.
I can see that this chute may be the largest problem to gaining access to the forward portion of the bilge.
Thanks for the response..
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
demers@sgi.com
Thanks for responding. Let me see if I have this correct..Heather Ann has two access hatches in the cabin sole, no water trough from the head to the bilge, and now a third hatch between the other two. Wow..things did change in their building of the CD30 by 1983, 6 years later.
In my boat, the head has a teak hatch (about 10 x7in.) in the floor, for water drainage when showering (we do not have pressure water either..by choice, so no showering in the head area..bad for mildew anyway..we also use a sun shower in the cockpit). The water from this hatch goes down into a white frp trough, about 8-9 in. wide, that is attached to the underside of the teak & holly floor/frp sole combination. This trough goes straight back to the rear most cabinfloor mounted hatch, where it is impounded, with a drain hole that is usually plugged off with a rubber stopper.
This trough is nice, because we store about 3 cases of pepsi cans up that chute, and find they keep quite cool, and are located low and on the center line of the boat. With the aid of a 2x2 that i stuffed up the chute also, the cans make no noise (now!) when things are rolly out. In use, this chute allows the cans to roll down and replace the one you just took out, so it is a self-feeding storage area kind of...heh.
I can see that this chute may be the largest problem to gaining access to the forward portion of the bilge.
Thanks for the response..
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Leo MacDonald wrote: Hi Larry,
Heather Ann, ?77 model year, had two factory installed cabin bilge access hatches on the forward & aft ends of the main salon sole. Many owners (?) before me had a knotmeter sending unit placed half way between the access hatches. Inaccessible - I could barely reach it with one hand and a visual was out of the question.
While refurbishing the decks ($$$) in '97/'98 I had Whitby Boat cut out and dress up the third bilge access hatch (approx. 1/2 way between the first two), basically a rectangle cut through the wood and GRP so as to replicate the likeness of the other two. They added nice trim pieces to the hatch and surround and installed aluminum lips from below to form a ledge for the hatch to rest. A strait forward job, if you?re handy with woodworking and GRP
Heather Ann doesn't have a frp trough for the head shower water. A small holding area in the head sole drains directly to the bilge at the aft end of the head area. No hot water on the boat, AND me & cold water showers are incompatible - used a 'Solar Shower' in the cockpit
Fair Winds,
Leo
demers@sgi.com
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Steve Alarcon
Re: Removing cabin floor
Pat,
Did you have to remove any of the casework for the galley. Seems I recall that your photo indicated the setees were able to remain in place. How "painful" was this chore.
Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle
alarcon3@prodigy.net
Did you have to remove any of the casework for the galley. Seems I recall that your photo indicated the setees were able to remain in place. How "painful" was this chore.
Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle
alarcon3@prodigy.net
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Leo MacDonald
Re: Bilge access hatch
Hi Larry,Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Leo,
Thanks for responding. Let me see if I have this correct..Heather Ann has two access hatches in the cabin sole, no water trough from the head to the bilge, and now a third hatch between the other two. Wow..things did change in their building of the CD30 by 1983, 6 years later.
You have it correct.
Also the later CD30s have two 30 gal. potable water tanks (under each settee). Heather Ann has two 15 gal. tanks. Upon sitting in Capt. Commanding’s (D. Stump) CD30C it appeared the settees were actually a little higher. Makes sense - had to double the capacity after the bow tank started to become a 'holding tank'.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: Removing cabin floor
Steve,
I had to remove some small trim around the base of the settees and the forward bulkhead of the salon area....this was no problem. What was a bit of a problem was removing the caprail piece of trim that sits on top of the aft bulkhead seperating the galley form the main salon. I removed the straight piece just after the bulkhead takes a turn for the floor on each side. This piece is screwed and glued in place. I managed to get one side off without too much destruction, but the other side got totally distoyed and so I had a local guy cut/and shape a piece to match....looks fine.
This wasn't a small job, but not really all that bad. It took about a day to remove all the trim pieces (including above mentioned) drill out the bungs in the floor, unscrew everything and pull it up. It took 2 of us to pull the floor since it was kind of a tight fit....it had been in there for over 20 years afterall.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
I had to remove some small trim around the base of the settees and the forward bulkhead of the salon area....this was no problem. What was a bit of a problem was removing the caprail piece of trim that sits on top of the aft bulkhead seperating the galley form the main salon. I removed the straight piece just after the bulkhead takes a turn for the floor on each side. This piece is screwed and glued in place. I managed to get one side off without too much destruction, but the other side got totally distoyed and so I had a local guy cut/and shape a piece to match....looks fine.
This wasn't a small job, but not really all that bad. It took about a day to remove all the trim pieces (including above mentioned) drill out the bungs in the floor, unscrew everything and pull it up. It took 2 of us to pull the floor since it was kind of a tight fit....it had been in there for over 20 years afterall.
Pat
patrick.t@home.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: VERY interesting site....
Captain Commanding Aimless,
John, that is a really neat site. Tells everything you'd want to know about Veneers. If you find the site for a teak and holy veneer, would you post it.
Thanks,
Dave Stump
John, that is a really neat site. Tells everything you'd want to know about Veneers. If you find the site for a teak and holy veneer, would you post it.
Thanks,
Dave Stump
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Ken Coit
Re: VERY interesting site....
Dave,
Here's another site that lists 4X8 sheets of teak and holly ply from 1/4" to 3/4." The veneer itself is 1.0 mm.
http://www.maritimewoodproducts.com/plywood.htm
Also, here's a site that seems to be listing 1.1 mm teak and holly veneer facing: http://www.boulterplywood.com/specials.html
If you are having trouble locating those elusive pirates on the high seas of the web, you might want to try Copernic as a search tool. They are located at:
http://www.copernic.com
and will let you download their Basic package at no cost.
Keep on sailing!
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Here's another site that lists 4X8 sheets of teak and holly ply from 1/4" to 3/4." The veneer itself is 1.0 mm.
http://www.maritimewoodproducts.com/plywood.htm
Also, here's a site that seems to be listing 1.1 mm teak and holly veneer facing: http://www.boulterplywood.com/specials.html
If you are having trouble locating those elusive pirates on the high seas of the web, you might want to try Copernic as a search tool. They are located at:
http://www.copernic.com
and will let you download their Basic package at no cost.
Keep on sailing!
Ken
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Captain Commanding Aimless,
John, that is a really neat site. Tells everything you'd want to know about Veneers. If you find the site for a teak and holy veneer, would you post it.
Thanks,
Dave Stump
parfait@nc.rr.com