Engine starting trouble and more

[Dennis]

Hi All,

Actually I have a few questions.

1. At times I have trouble starting my Farymann Diesel. Some days it cranks right over, others I get no response (starter motor doesn't click or spin). My batteries appear charged (by voltage & specific gravity). I am thinking it may be a case of voltage drop. Any suggestions on where to look first?

2. To those who store their fuel tanks empty, what do you do w/ the fuel you removed? Isn't it now "waste oil"?

3. Any good suggestions (environmentally correct) on ways to clean my engine?

Thanks,
Dennis



dennis.driscoll@roche.com

[Ken Coit]

Dennis,

1. If it used to work, then the cables are probably not the wrong size, so you must have dirty connections somewhere. Start at the battery, disconnect it and clean those terminals and connections until they are bright. After you reconnect the battery (later) cover the connections with something that will keep them from corroding. I leave the selection to you as there are many greases, varnishes, etc. that people use.

Next, I'd go to the solenoid because it sounds as if it isn't pulling in. Clean those terminals up, put them back together, and cover them in silicon grease or some other protectant (WD-40 for some).

Then there is the starter itself. Same routine. Maybe the battery switch too?

Reconnect the battery, check out the starting situation, and if it works, coat those battery terminals.

2. Empty fuel tanks gather condensation. I fill mine and use an additive to stabilize the fuel. If you have a friend with a diesel automobile or truck, you might get them to burn it up for you. How will you get the condensation out of the tank in the Spring?

3. I cleaned Parfait's engine using full strength Bilge Cleaner and it works like a charm; it even worked in the bilge. Those little microbes just eat up the grease and oil, creating an emulsion. You can apply it with a spray bottle into places you will never reach with a toothbrush. Let it sit a few minutes and then rinse with fresh water. Of course, you then have to clean the bilge, pumping the vile emulsion into gallon milk bottles or something, but that was already on the list and a small additional price to pay in our case.

Who ever thought that being a Captain would lead to such deep knowledge?

Cap'n Ken
CD/36 Parfait
Raleigh, NC

Hi All,

Actually I have a few questions.

1. At times I have trouble starting my Farymann Diesel. Some days it cranks right over, others I get no response (starter motor doesn't click or spin). My batteries appear charged (by voltage & specific gravity). I am thinking it may be a case of voltage drop. Any suggestions on where to look first?

2. To those who store their fuel tanks empty, what do you do w/ the fuel you removed? Isn't it now "waste oil"?

3. Any good suggestions (environmentally correct) on ways to clean my engine?

Thanks,
Dennis

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Al Smith]

Dennis,

1. If it used to work, then the cables are probably not the wrong size, so you must have dirty connections somewhere. Start at the battery, disconnect it and clean those terminals and connections until they are bright. After you reconnect the battery (later) cover the connections with something that will keep them from corroding. I leave the selection to you as there are many greases, varnishes, etc. that people use.

Next, I'd go to the solenoid because it sounds as if it isn't pulling in. Clean those terminals up, put them back together, and cover them in silicon grease or some other protectant (WD-40 for some).

Then there is the starter itself. Same routine. Maybe the battery switch too?

Reconnect the battery, check out the starting situation, and if it works, coat those battery terminals.

2. Empty fuel tanks gather condensation. I fill mine and use an additive to stabilize the fuel. If you have a friend with a diesel automobile or truck, you might get them to burn it up for you. How will you get the condensation out of the tank in the Spring?

3. I cleaned Parfait's engine using full strength Bilge Cleaner and it works like a charm; it even worked in the bilge. Those little microbes just eat up the grease and oil, creating an emulsion. You can apply it with a spray bottle into places you will never reach with a toothbrush. Let it sit a few minutes and then rinse with fresh water. Of course, you then have to clean the bilge, pumping the vile emulsion into gallon milk bottles or something, but that was already on the list and a small additional price to pay in our case.

Who ever thought that being a Captain would lead to such deep knowledge?

Cap'n Ken
CD/36 Parfait
Raleigh, NC

Hi All,

Actually I have a few questions.

1. At times I have trouble starting my Farymann Diesel. Some days it cranks right over, others I get no response (starter motor doesn't click or spin). My batteries appear charged (by voltage & specific gravity). I am thinking it may be a case of voltage drop. Any suggestions on where to look first?

2. To those who store their fuel tanks empty, what do you do w/ the fuel you removed? Isn't it now "waste oil"?

3. Any good suggestions (environmentally correct) on ways to clean my engine?

Thanks,
Dennis

One other thing I'd try. I've had to replace my starter button twice because of corrosion or lack of consistent contact. Check that too as you go through the electrical system. It's an easy and cheap cure.


Al

[Larry DeMers]

All of the suggestions given so far are spot - on, and should be done before going on. If the steps Ken and Al laid out for you are not successful at finding the intermittency inthe starting circuit, then you might consider this. Starters when used hard, may burnout a winding inside..or more than one even. If this has happened, then some of the time, when the starter comes to rest after it's last successful use, the commutator for the burned out winding may be under the brushes, so when you apply power to start the beast, there will be no rotation of the starter as the circuit to the winding is broken. You will however, hear the starter solenoid closing when the key is turned. If not, then the starter is nto the first problem..you will need to find the interruption to the solenoid coil. A voltmeter will help immensely here. Have someone turn the key over while you watch the voltage between ground (non-painted area on the engine should work fine) and the 12vdc input wire to the solenoid.

If the solenoid can be heard closing when the key is turned on, then try to rotate the starter armature a bit..enough to get the brushes settled on another winding..hopefully not fried. That would prove that it is the starter that needs rebuilding.
Voltage drops are generally due to loose or corroded fittings or crimps.

Why would you take out your diesel fuel and leave the tank empty (not getting nosy here, just wondering, as this is not normally done)? I do not know of anyone that has done that for winterization. As Ken mentioned, that invites water to accumulate due to condensation. This will corrode your tank possibly, for certain it will have to be removed 100% in the spring before refilling with fuel (not as easy as it sounds).
Why not top the tank up with fuel..add Biobore to kill the bacteria in the tank, fuel lines, filter element and fixtures, and then water emulsifier (not Heat, but an isopropol alcohol product made to isolate individual droplets of water, surround them with alcohol and allow them to be burned with the fuel, without damage to the injector tips. Run the engine with this combo in place..a few minutes will do. This spreads the biobore product throughout the engines fuel path, keeping the whole system healthy for spring starting.

Good Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~

Hi All,

Actually I have a few questions.

1. At times I have trouble starting my Farymann Diesel. Some days it cranks right over, others I get no response (starter motor doesn't click or spin). My batteries appear charged (by voltage & specific gravity). I am thinking it may be a case of voltage drop. Any suggestions on where to look first?

2. To those who store their fuel tanks empty, what do you do w/ the fuel you removed? Isn't it now "waste oil"?

3. Any good suggestions (environmentally correct) on ways to clean my engine?

Thanks,
Dennis

demers@sgi.com

[Mark Yashinsky]

In addition to Larry (Snowball) DeMers, suggestions, try having a light (cabin, instrument) that you can watch when trying to crank. It will give an instant battery load check. If it doesnt dim at all, no load is being placed on the battery and look at the starter button or button wire/connections. If it dims a little and the solenoid clicks, look at hte starter. Dims and no click, the solenoid. If the light dims a lot, start w/ the battery and battery connections.
When you say clean, you mean the outside of the engine, right??? Look into some of the environmental friendly automotive engine cleaners. You dont think car guys collect when washing down their engines, do you???

[Dennis]

WOW, Thanks for the quick responses. A lot of what you all had said, I kind of thought, I guess I wanted the reassurance (you must be consultants). I'll try to answer some of the questions you brought up:

Yes, I want to clean the outside of the engine. I don't know what auto mechanics do now, but years ago when I was 17, I would Gunk up the car engine and hose it off, let the effluent run down the sewer. This method probably won't go over to well in a boat yard in 2001.

As to emptying the fuel tank. I've read of both methods, one expert says leave full and another leave empty. Last year I left full (w/ stabilizer) and had no trouble - good reason to repeat this year. But, two things come to mind. I have a 10gal tank and I burned 6-7 gal this season. I if fill now, in the spring of 2002, I will have 1/3 of my fuel left over from 2000? Also, I noticed I have some crud in the bottom of the tank and was thinking of cleaning out the tank. How I will do this, I don't know yet

Just more questions to ask now that sailing season is over…

As always, Thanks
Dennis



dennis.driscoll@roche.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Dennis,
If you've got "crud" in the bottom of the fuel tank, NOW is the time to clean it out. Clean it out before winter and THEN fill the tank with a load of fresh, stabilized diesel for the winter. Next year, all the fuel will be fresh enough and you shouldn't have any trouble. If the tank is left empty, you will have to deal with condensation.

Warren Kaplan



SETSAIL728@AOL.COM

[grenier]

Hi All,

Actually I have a few questions.

1. At times I have trouble starting my Farymann Diesel. Some days it cranks right over, others I get no response (starter motor doesn't click or spin). My batteries appear charged (by voltage & specific gravity). I am thinking it may be a case of voltage drop. Any suggestions on where to look first?

2. To those who store their fuel tanks empty, what do you do w/ the fuel you removed? Isn't it now "waste oil"?

3. Any good suggestions (environmentally correct) on ways to clean my engine?

Thanks,
Dennis

Don't forget-if you want to get rid of your old fuel and start fresh-pump it out and put in your home heating oil tank(we are talking about diesel fuel-not gas)-if you have any problems with the fuel dump it and start fresh-we are not talking about alot of fuel so its not worth the headaches if its contaminated or has water in it.-I dump mine every couple of years and start fresh.



grenier@ma.ultranet.com