I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
lk23@gis.net
Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Bill Starck
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
I just put new hoses on my holding tank and I used the Series 148 Multi-Purpose Vinyl Hose West Marine sells for $2.99. It worked fine. I had to put the end of the hose in hot water to soften it to fit over the fittings. You might want to test a small section of hose in hot water first because if you get it too hot it deforms. I don't like the idea of using PVC, it seems like it would be to rigid and using a section of flex hose at the joints just adds to the number of joints to fail
Wstarck@starckarchitects.com
Wstarck@starckarchitects.com
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Jim Stull
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
We compltely replaced the miserable tiny holding holding tank and plumbing system on our CD25 3 years ago. I had read in (I think) Dan Spurr's book about using PVC. Because of the very limited space on the 25 I liked the simplicity of using the PVC, so we used it wherever possible. It was much simpler to use than fighting the stiff hose. We mostly live on our little boat in the summer (and also for one winter) and also sail the boat quite a lot. We have had no problems. A big plus is no smell! Be aware though, that some surveyors won't like it. We had the 25 surveyed for upgraded insurance and the Florida surveyor did not like the PVC. On the other hand I ask the surveyor in Maine about it when we had our new (old) CD27 surveyed and he had no problem with it.LK wrote: I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
I would not use it on any engine related functions.
Jim
jtstull@earthlink.net
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wayne grenier
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
Go for it-Nigel Calder in his book aggrees-I just replaced a Y valve that I cracked the flange on trying to fit the "flex hose" at a wierd angle-so rather than spend $80 for a "marine Y valve" I used a pvc T and 2 ball valves-for a total cost of $20-LK wrote: I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
grenier@ma.ultranet.com
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John R.
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
I went with PVC 1 1/2" after much consideration of the arguments against it's rigidity. I used premium sanitation hose as flex joints to allow some give. It really has far more going for it than against it. The same can not be said for sanitation hose.LK wrote: I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
The cost savings is a huge factor compared to premium sanitation hose like Sealands or Trident. Both of which are the best in hose. They still permeate sooner or later. Anyone with any experience knows that. Why spend premium dollars for something that will fail. The PVC won't (be sure glue joints are done properly). The PVC makes for a neater and easier installation saving space and utilizing nooks and cranies that you simply can't tuck hose into. I would never go back to sanitation hose. In addition, like someone else said the PVC ball valves work better than Y valves and are dirt cheap in comparison.
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Mike Buppert
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
What type and size of tank did you end up using and where did you put it? We have a 25 and agree, our 3 gallon tank is basically a legal side step and practically useless.Jim Stull wrote:We compltely replaced the miserable tiny holding holding tank and plumbing system on our CD25 3 years ago. I had read in (I think) Dan Spurr's book about using PVC. Because of the very limited space on the 25 I liked the simplicity of using the PVC, so we used it wherever possible. It was much simpler to use than fighting the stiff hose. We mostly live on our little boat in the summer (and also for one winter) and also sail the boat quite a lot. We have had no problems. A big plus is no smell! Be aware though, that some surveyors won't like it. We had the 25 surveyed for upgraded insurance and the Florida surveyor did not like the PVC. On the other hand I ask the surveyor in Maine about it when we had our new (old) CD27 surveyed and he had no problem with it.LK wrote: I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
I would not use it on any engine related functions.
Jim
Mike Buppert
CD25 "Lucille"
Toms River Yacht Club
Barnegat Bay NJ
buppert@csionline.net
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Bob Loewenstein
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
I found the stiff white hose that the marine stores sell to be much less expensive (50%) at Home Depot. Unfortunately I discovered this AFTER I had replumbed our 27.
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
rfl@yerkes.uchicago.edu
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Jim Stull
Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
Hi Mike
We purchased a 13 gal plastic tank from West or Boats, (I forget which). This was the absolute max size that would fit. It was really a big job because of the limited space. I fitted it under the vee-berth, aft of the water tank, up against the lower v-berth bulkhead. I had to do a fair amount of trimming here and there to get it in. Then I epoxy laminated some new wood under the v-berth to more than replace where I had trimmed. Pehaps this was overkill. I can now flush the head with "sea" water, pump to the tank or overboard. And the tank can be pumped out. To ease the plumbing in the limited space, I made up a "breadboard" with all the y-valves and anti-syphon valves pre-mounted in my shop. This, I then fastened as a unit to the v-berth side of the portside bulkhead and hooked it up. I am very happy with the result, it works perfectly and there is no smell. It was, however more work than I had anticipated. (What else is new!)
If I were to do it again, I would make one change. On Lake Erie where we sail, pump-outs seem to be available. But when we wintered on the boat in the Keys, they were not. I would change the design to pump everything to the tank, then add a mascerator pump to enable emptying the tank. It seemed that most of the people we met in the Keys went offshore and pumped out their tanks.
Jim
jtstull@earthlink.net
We purchased a 13 gal plastic tank from West or Boats, (I forget which). This was the absolute max size that would fit. It was really a big job because of the limited space. I fitted it under the vee-berth, aft of the water tank, up against the lower v-berth bulkhead. I had to do a fair amount of trimming here and there to get it in. Then I epoxy laminated some new wood under the v-berth to more than replace where I had trimmed. Pehaps this was overkill. I can now flush the head with "sea" water, pump to the tank or overboard. And the tank can be pumped out. To ease the plumbing in the limited space, I made up a "breadboard" with all the y-valves and anti-syphon valves pre-mounted in my shop. This, I then fastened as a unit to the v-berth side of the portside bulkhead and hooked it up. I am very happy with the result, it works perfectly and there is no smell. It was, however more work than I had anticipated. (What else is new!)
If I were to do it again, I would make one change. On Lake Erie where we sail, pump-outs seem to be available. But when we wintered on the boat in the Keys, they were not. I would change the design to pump everything to the tank, then add a mascerator pump to enable emptying the tank. It seemed that most of the people we met in the Keys went offshore and pumped out their tanks.
Jim
jtstull@earthlink.net
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Ken Coit
Dead Sea Gremlins Smell Re: Sanitation Hoses (High Cost)
Sort of on subject:
You have my attention with regard to PVC, but I have a slightly different application albeit with a similar objective. It is my belief that dead organisms left in the rim of the toilet bowl are the cause of at least some of the unpleasant odor we experience from time-to-time. I say this, because if we flush them out regularly, then the smell goes away.
One solution for this, assuming you are leaving the boat long enough for them to die, is to flush them into the holding tank with fresh water. However, getting fresh water to the rim is a problem since it is plumbed to the seacock. A Y-valve that selected the basin outlet or the seacock as a source for the toilet would allow one to use fresh water from the basin or sea water as preferred. Expensive.
A single PVC ball valve and a pair of Ts, one in the head intake line and another in the basin outlet, in conjunction with the seacocks, would permit full flexibility. In fact, it might even eliminate one seacock by using a single seacock as both intake for the toilet and outlet for the sink. However, instructing guests in the correct operation might get burdensome. Single seacock: open for basin drain, closed for toilet rim flushing, open for sea water intake to toilet. Ball valve: open for toilet rim flushing or draining basin, closed for sea water intake to toilet. I guess a table would be nice. And labels on the handles would help.
I think that one ought to be certain the seacocks are in good working order if you use these materials, but that ought be a given in any case. Also, I wonder if there is some sanitation issue with connecting the outlet hose from the basin to the inlet hose to the toilet. Given that the respective through-hulls are about 6 inches apart I can't imagine there being a difference, but maybe someone else knows better than I?
Another project....
Ken Coit
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
parfait@nc.rr.com
You have my attention with regard to PVC, but I have a slightly different application albeit with a similar objective. It is my belief that dead organisms left in the rim of the toilet bowl are the cause of at least some of the unpleasant odor we experience from time-to-time. I say this, because if we flush them out regularly, then the smell goes away.
One solution for this, assuming you are leaving the boat long enough for them to die, is to flush them into the holding tank with fresh water. However, getting fresh water to the rim is a problem since it is plumbed to the seacock. A Y-valve that selected the basin outlet or the seacock as a source for the toilet would allow one to use fresh water from the basin or sea water as preferred. Expensive.
A single PVC ball valve and a pair of Ts, one in the head intake line and another in the basin outlet, in conjunction with the seacocks, would permit full flexibility. In fact, it might even eliminate one seacock by using a single seacock as both intake for the toilet and outlet for the sink. However, instructing guests in the correct operation might get burdensome. Single seacock: open for basin drain, closed for toilet rim flushing, open for sea water intake to toilet. Ball valve: open for toilet rim flushing or draining basin, closed for sea water intake to toilet. I guess a table would be nice. And labels on the handles would help.
I think that one ought to be certain the seacocks are in good working order if you use these materials, but that ought be a given in any case. Also, I wonder if there is some sanitation issue with connecting the outlet hose from the basin to the inlet hose to the toilet. Given that the respective through-hulls are about 6 inches apart I can't imagine there being a difference, but maybe someone else knows better than I?
Another project....
Ken Coit
Parfait
Raleigh, NC
wayne grenier wrote:Go for it-Nigel Calder in his book aggrees-I just replaced a Y valve that I cracked the flange on trying to fit the "flex hose" at a wierd angle-so rather than spend $80 for a "marine Y valve" I used a pvc T and 2 ball valves-for a total cost of $20-LK wrote: I am replacing the head and holding hoses and adding a deck pumpout in my CD30 ketch. I need aprroximate 30 ft of that High price stuff that West and everyone sells at $7.99 / ft. Has anyone found and alterative? Has anyone ever tried to plumb it in 1 1/2 PVC with short length of hose for flex joints?
lk
lk23@gis.net
parfait@nc.rr.com