Water coming in thru Cutlass Bearing or similar location.

[Zeida Cecilia-Mendez]

On a CD-33...underneath the engine, there is a small bilge area. When under sail, water accumulates there, and overflows over the holding tank situated right in front of engine, under the floorboards, and into the main cabin bilge. Is this normal even after a small outing, to get enough water inside the small bilge that it overflows into the larger one..? Also, where is this water coming from...? Once there, of course, the automatic bilge pump takes over and pumps some of it out, but there is always about 2 gallons of water that remains there, which I then have to pump out manually... Even when the boat is at anchor, or at the slip, I can see the little stream of water coming in underneath the engine, and flooding that snall bilge... Would appreciate any comments. Thanks!



zcecil@ibm.net

[Duane Yoslov]

Yes, I have experienced the same thing on our CD330 Father's Folly II. Your problem almost certainly comes from the stuffing box if you only experience the problem while sailing. The prop spins while sailing and accelerates what is probably a stuffing box out of adjustment. You can tighten the s.b. by loosening the lock ring and then tightening the inner nut which pushes down on the s.b. material. You should not cut off the drip all together - about 1 drip every 20 seconds or so is normal. If you can't remember servicing it - it might be a good idea to replace the stuffing material next time you have her hauled.

My problem with the whole thing is that stuffing boxes are supposed to leak and when it does on the CD33/0 it mixes with the engine oil drippings and makes a nice little toxic solution. I'd like to get the sea water directly to the bilge...any ideas out there?

On a CD-33...underneath the engine, there is a small bilge area. When under sail, water accumulates there, and overflows over the holding tank situated right in front of engine, under the floorboards, and into the main cabin bilge. Is this normal even after a small outing, to get enough water inside the small bilge that it overflows into the larger one..? Also, where is this water coming from...? Once there, of course, the automatic bilge pump takes over and pumps some of it out, but there is always about 2 gallons of water that remains there, which I then have to pump out manually... Even when the boat is at anchor, or at the slip, I can see the little stream of water coming in underneath the engine, and flooding that snall bilge... Would appreciate any comments. Thanks!

yoslovd@aol.com

[Matt Cawthorne]

Sea Fever is a CD 36 with a Perkins 4-108 that leaks oil. I had similar problems for several years. The sump under the engine will eventually fill up with water and spills into the main portion of the bilge when the boat rolls. I had no less than 5 separate sources of the water. Here is what I found.

1: The stuffing box. You walk a very fine line with the stuffing box. Tighten it too much and you wear the shaft very quickly, wear out the packing quickly and then will be unable to seal the stuffing box well. Too loose and you have the obvious leak. The way I handle it is to replace the packing every 2 to 3 years (probably overkill). The first launching after the packing is replaced I tighten the nut just as soon as the boat goes in the water, but only tight enough to slow the stream to a drip. After a day or so when the flax has absorbed some water I finish tightening the nut in very small increments. The stuffing box is supposed to drip once in a while while the prop is turning. My experience is that it doesn't need to be so loose as to drip when the prop isn't turning. Remember use TINY little increments when tightening. Spartan marine makes a set of wrenches that will fit your stuffing box. My shaft seems to be in good shape after 16 years (4 years of me owning it). When I launch the boat after having been out of the water for a while I do not tighten the stuffing for 24 hours. Usually the stuffing box will not have to be tightened much at that point, sometimes not at all. Check for dripping every month or so. Just climb in behind the engine with a flash light and watch where the shaft exits the stuffing box. Don't blink.

Check to make sure that the rubber hose behind the stuffing box is double clamped and in good shape.

All of the remaining leaks I found by cleaning out the lazerette and cockpit lockers, climbing in during a heavy rain storm and watching for drips. You should do the same because there are many possible sources of rain water and salt water from the top of the boat.

2: The turning blocks at the back of the cockpit that turn the jib sheets sit on a wooden block on the CD36. Water collects behind them and runs through a little channel cut under the block where it meets the toe rail. On Sea fever they mis-drilled the holes. When they discovered the problem they re-drilled the holes and bolted the blocks in place without filling the old holes. The little channel under the block just directed the water into the lazerette. I had to remove the wooden block (it is attached to the deck and to the toe rail) fill the holes, re-seal mount the blocks and re-seal the bolts.

3: Where the pumpout fitting in the cockpit protrudes through the deck the seal was bad. I had to remove the fitting, spoil away some of the damp core, dry the remaining core, fill the missing material with epoxy and filler, and finally re-mount the fitting in a poly-sulfide bedding. Be sure to mask if you use poly sulfide or you will have an endless mess.

4: Same as 3: but around the deck plate for the emergency tiller.

5: The wooden frame under the cockpit locker was poorly bedded. It leaked water in when it rained. I had to remove the frame, clean everything, varnish the frame, and re-bed/ re-mount it.


With all of that done the sump under the engine collects only about 1 cup of water in a season. I mop it up with a sponge. Now if I could only stop that oil leak........

Best of luck. Wear your safety glasses and respirators when you do work which makes a mess.

Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[denny]

One of the most important items in keeping and good seal at the suffing box is shaft alignment. The drive shaft must be aligned with the transmission shaft, i.e. drive shaft coupling to transmission coupling. Other problems are also associated with poor alignment, such as high vibration, cutlass bearing wear, shaft wear, not to mention excessive stuffing box leakage. Change and adjust your packing as directed through numerous sources, but do not forget about the importance of proper shaft alignment. Refer to competent instruction manuals on the procedure; it's not difficult it just takes patience.



denny@nations.net

[Steve Alarcon]

We were also collecting water under the engine on our CD30. I had noticed the drip at the stuffing box, and replaced the packing (along with the cutlass bearing) and replaced the main shaft with a stainless steel shaft at the recommendation of our surveyor. Thought I had it under control, but low and behold I found that the source of the water was the raw water pump for the heat exchanger! We had needed a new cutlass bearing anyway, but there is a lesson learned there.....spend time, not money. By the way, we put our transmission in reverse when underway to keep the prop from spinning; saves wear on the transmission, cutlass bearing and the stuffing box packing and doesn't seem to slow us down at all.

Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle



alarcon@internetmci.com

[Matt Cawthorne]

On many small boat transmissions you can stop the prop from spinning while under sail by simply dropping the transmission into reverse after the engine is stopped. That will help minimize the wear on the packing and reduce the water influx. Some manufacturers suggest this because of lubrication problems within their transmissions when the prop is freewheeling.

The engine alignment reply is a good one. As part of the engine alignment make sure your engine mounts are not degrading. A failing mount will make all of your alignment efforts worthless.

Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[zeida cecilia-mendez]

Steve - thanks for taking the time to share your experience with me. I have heard from at least 4 other sailors with similar problems, and they have all recommended similar remedies. In the next few weekends, I shall dive into the engine compartment of my CD33 and FIND the origin of the leak. Then, depending of what it is, I will try to have it fixed. in the meantime, thanks again for your input. I have printed all the recommendations, and am heading to the marina with papers in hand, to see which of the problems is the one on "Bandolera II". Again, thanks!
Zeida.

We were also collecting water under the engine on our CD30. I had noticed the drip at the stuffing box, and replaced the packing (along with the cutlass bearing) and replaced the main shaft with a stainless steel shaft at the recommendation of our surveyor. Thought I had it under control, but low and behold I found that the source of the water was the raw water pump for the heat exchanger! We had needed a new cutlass bearing anyway, but there is a lesson learned there.....spend time, not money. By the way, we put our transmission in reverse when underway to keep the prop from spinning; saves wear on the transmission, cutlass bearing and the stuffing box packing and doesn't seem to slow us down at all.

Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle

zcecil@ibm.net

[zeida cecilia-mendez]

FatherFolly: Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences with me and my new (old-1982) CD-33. In the next few weekends, I expect to investigate all the possibilities and hopefully find the origin of the leak, and then will follow all you guys' suggestions, which make perfect sense. Will keep you posted. And thanks again!
Zeida.

Yes, I have experienced the same thing on our CD330 Father's Folly II. Your problem almost certainly comes from the stuffing box if you only experience the problem while sailing. The prop spins while sailing and accelerates what is probably a stuffing box out of adjustment. You can tighten the s.b. by loosening the lock ring and then tightening the inner nut which pushes down on the s.b. material. You should not cut off the drip all together - about 1 drip every 20 seconds or so is normal. If you can't remember servicing it - it might be a good idea to replace the stuffing material next time you have her hauled.

My problem with the whole thing is that stuffing boxes are supposed to leak and when it does on the CD33/0 it mixes with the engine oil drippings and makes a nice little toxic solution. I'd like to get the sea water directly to the bilge...any ideas out there?

On a CD-33...underneath the engine, there is a small bilge area. When under sail, water accumulates there, and overflows over the holding tank situated right in front of engine, under the floorboards, and into the main cabin bilge. Is this normal even after a small outing, to get enough water inside the small bilge that it overflows into the larger one..? Also, where is this water coming from...? Once there, of course, the automatic bilge pump takes over and pumps some of it out, but there is always about 2 gallons of water that remains there, which I then have to pump out manually... Even when the boat is at anchor, or at the slip, I can see the little stream of water coming in underneath the engine, and flooding that snall bilge... Would appreciate any comments. Thanks!

zcecil@ibm.net

[John]

On a CD-33...underneath the engine, there is a small bilge area. When under sail, water accumulates there, and overflows over the holding tank situated right in front of engine, under the floorboards, and into the main cabin bilge. Is this normal even after a small outing, to get enough water inside the small bilge that it overflows into the larger one..? Also, where is this water coming from...? Once there, of course, the automatic bilge pump takes over and pumps some of it out, but there is always about 2 gallons of water that remains there, which I then have to pump out manually... Even when the boat is at anchor, or at the slip, I can see the little stream of water coming in underneath the engine, and flooding that snall bilge... Would appreciate any comments. Thanks!

Sounds like an excessive stuffing box leak to me. Do yourself and the boat a big favor and ditch the classic stuffing box for a dripless shaft seal as we did long ago and never regretted it. Ours is in a CD30 with a v-drive layout. We couldn't even access the box so when we went the dripless route we extended the shaft log so the dripless unit is now located right under the v-drive and transmission and is simple to get at for any reason. Best improvement we ever made to the boat. Dry bilges to boot!