Stuffing Box Hose Replacement, CD27

[Warren Kaplan]

Surveyor reports that the "attached hose to the stuffing box shows sections with signs of surface cracks and wall bulging. The hose should be replaced. The clamps and the stuffing box itself looks okay." Question...how hard a job (other than getting to the damn thing in the first place) is it to replace this hose? YSM8 engine.
One other thing along these lines. I was prepared to have the mechanics at my yard replace the entire stuffing box with a Packless Shaft Seal (PSS) unit. Yesterday, they went onto the boat to take a look to see if they could do it. They said they could but they also found that the engine and shaft was about 10 degrees out of alignment with the stern tube. They said that a PSS was designed to work with some malalignment but 10 degrees was really too much. They said they may have to pull the engine and adjust the engine mounts to get everything right when they do all this. They said the malalignment could have happened running aground or something like that. Is there anyway to for me to check if in fact there is misalignment. Call me skeptical but I know it would be a helluva lot easier to replace that stuffing box with the engine out of the way then trying to do it standing on your head thru one of the cockpit lockers. They also said pulling and realigning the engine amounts to one day's labor. I think my yard mechanics get $85 per hour. Things get to add up real fast don't they. Has anyone had any experience with this? I may just want the old stuffing box fixed...but the mechanics say that changing the hose on the old box or putting in a new PSS requires about the same amount of work. Thanks for your suggestions.
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 (1980)



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[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Warren,

Last year, about July, Hanalei had a shaft coupling failure. The shaft whipped around enough to loosen the shaft log/cutlass bearing fitting at the stern. This meant, she was going down! Ended up pulling the engine, removed the log, hose, stuffing box and transmission. Replaced the transmission as the part of the coupling that broke was a forged shaft on the output of the transmission and it wasn't worth fixing. Total cost = a little over $6,000.00!! Ouch, that hurt!

10 degrees sounds like a LOT of missalignment! You should be able to adjust that out without pulling the engine as long as the motor mounts are Okay. While you're at it, replace the hose, but I wouldn't use the dripless shaft seal. Not worth it, as long as the original stuffing box is adjusted properly. And, yes, replace the stuffing box packing while you have it out to replace the hose.

Why does the yard want to pull the engine???

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Warren Kaplan]

Warren,

Last year, about July, Hanalei had a shaft coupling failure. The shaft whipped around enough to loosen the shaft log/cutlass bearing fitting at the stern. This meant, she was going down! Ended up pulling the engine, removed the log, hose, stuffing box and transmission. Replaced the transmission as the part of the coupling that broke was a forged shaft on the output of the transmission and it wasn't worth fixing. Total cost = a little over $6,000.00!! Ouch, that hurt!

10 degrees sounds like a LOT of missalignment! You should be able to adjust that out without pulling the engine as long as the motor mounts are Okay. While you're at it, replace the hose, but I wouldn't use the dripless shaft seal. Not worth it, as long as the original stuffing box is adjusted properly. And, yes, replace the stuffing box packing while you have it out to replace the hose.

Why does the yard want to pull the engine???

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

Dave,
Why does the yard want to pull the engine, INDEED!
I think that when they took a look at the very cramped access available to replace the stuffing box, nobody wanted to do it. That's why I said in my original post that I'm skeptical. If they pull the engine, access is excellent. And adding a day's labor at $85 per hour doesn't hurt either. Now I could be wrong and these guys may be as honest as the day is long, but I have been burned before albeit not by these guys. Another question. Wouldn't I know something was amiss with the shaft out of alignment by 10 degrees? Some huge vibration? Smoke from friction? Obviously lousy motoring performance? I don't motor alot. Just about 1/2 mile from the slip until I'm hoisting the main, so perhaps I'm missing something. Maybe I'll do as you say and just keep the old stuffing box, change the hose and packing. By the way Dave, thanks for the nice title to your posting. You really know how to make a fellow CD sailor feel "good"!!



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[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Warren,

You could be right, the yard might not have a small enough midget to fit into the lazzerette! You might be able to change it out by reaching in over the top of the engine from the front, but I dought it!

Yes, I think that 10 degrees of misalignment would be noticable! Even running for a short time. I'm actually surprised that you haven't cracked the fiberglas shaft log with that much misalignment! I can't imagine how it would happen. Certainly not by running aground, unless you hit at 25+ knots and broke free a few engine mounts. Someone didn't do something right, maybe a long time ago.

Hey, another thing to check when you do this, check the fiberglas shaft log if she has one. Cape Dory used an appx. 1/8" thick x 1 1/2" fiberglas pipe as a shaft log on some of the Cape Dorys I've seen. The cutlass bearing fitted into the outer end of this pipe, and the hose to the stuffing box was fitted to the inside end, then hose to stuffing box. Hanalei had the described setup before we bought her, and the pipe CRACKED, probably due to vibration over the years. The yard that had her had bored out the fiberglas pipe and replaced it with a combination Bronze cutlass bearing housing/shaft log (it's about 8" long)that mounts from outside at the stern. IF that pipe lets go on you, she is SINKING! I don't know off hand who makes this fitting, but can find out if you decide to do it. Obviously the vessel needs to be on the hard to do this.

If you ultimately end up pulling the engine, I would really consider changing out the shaft log with the proper bronze fitting. Once done, you won't have to worry about it.

I know that none of this is good news, but BOAT does stand for Break Out Another Thousand!!

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Tom]

Surveyor reports that the "attached hose to the stuffing box shows sections with signs of surface cracks and wall bulging. The hose should be replaced. The clamps and the stuffing box itself looks okay." Question...how hard a job (other than getting to the damn thing in the first place) is it to replace this hose? YSM8 engine.
One other thing along these lines. I was prepared to have the mechanics at my yard replace the entire stuffing box with a Packless Shaft Seal (PSS) unit. Yesterday, they went onto the boat to take a look to see if they could do it. They said they could but they also found that the engine and shaft was about 10 degrees out of alignment with the stern tube. They said that a PSS was designed to work with some malalignment but 10 degrees was really too much. They said they may have to pull the engine and adjust the engine mounts to get everything right when they do all this. They said the malalignment could have happened running aground or something like that. Is there anyway to for me to check if in fact there is misalignment. Call me skeptical but I know it would be a helluva lot easier to replace that stuffing box with the engine out of the way then trying to do it standing on your head thru one of the cockpit lockers. They also said pulling and realigning the engine amounts to one day's labor. I think my yard mechanics get $85 per hour. Things get to add up real fast don't they. Has anyone had any experience with this? I may just want the old stuffing box fixed...but the mechanics say that changing the hose on the old box or putting in a new PSS requires about the same amount of work. Thanks for your suggestions.
Warren

Been there and done that although not on a 27. To change the stuffing box hose or install a shaft seal you have to pull the prop shaft. This is often the hardest part of the job. When I did mine I had to cut the shaft and have a new shaft made. There are a lot of posts about pulling shafts on this BB. It seems more likely that you would have a shaft 10 thousands out of alignment than 10 degrees. I think you'd definitely feel something if it was 10 degrees out. I don't know how you'd even measure 10 degrees out. A quick check for misalignment is to turn the shaft by hand. If it's seriously out of alignment it will stick on one side each time it revolves. When it's right it will turn smoothly all the way around. The next step is to fine adjust the alignment. You use feeler gauges like the ones you use to adjust valves on a car engine. Loosen the bolts at the coupling where the shaft is bolted to the engine and slide the shaft back, then bring it slowly up against the engine. Put the feeler gauge between the coupling on the shaft and the coupling on the engine and measure the gap on every side. The gaps should all be the same or close to it. To adjust the alignment you loosen the bolts on the motor mounts and then get a crow bar and shift the engine back and forth until you get it aligned. Most engines have slots rather than holes and you can shift the engine back and forth in the slots until you get it aligned. It's not hard, but it's time consuming to get it right because the engine often shifts when you tighten the bolts. You have to over adjust to allow for the shifting and then check after you've tightened to make sure it's still right and so on. Often a lot of back and forth. Once you get the sideways alignment right you have to adjust the vertical adjustment also. On most motor mounts there are nuts below and above the engine feet. You loosen the top nuts and then run the nuts underneath up or down to raise or lower the engine. Here again when you tighten down it may change the alignment so you have to check after you think you have it right and tighten. This is just a brief description to give you the idea of what's involved.

Everything is cramped, dark, and hard to get to. I haven't worked on a 27 so I'm not sure what room you've got there. The yard may be telling you that it would be cheaper to pull the engine and put it back than to try to do the job with the engine in the way. Or it may be impossible to do without pulling the engine. Getting the old shaft out can be a half day process in itself because they get rusted in and sometimes can't be broken free except in a hydraulic press in the machine shop. Of course you don't know that until you try to get it out for a half day and then finally wind up cutting the shaft and buying a new one for $ 200+ and four hours of labor anyway.

This is one of those jobs that you might want to try doing yourself first. Follow the directions in previous posts on this BB about shaft removal. If you are very lucky and get it out yourself that might answer the questions about pulling the engine. If you can't get it out yourself you might want to hire the yard to come with their sawzall to cut the shaft. Sawing a 1 inch stainless steel shaft in the bottom of the bilge with a hand hacksaw isn't worth the effort. At that point it might be cheaper to pull the engine and have the yard do it. Just my opinion.

Incidentally, I agree with Dave and Larry DeMers and others on this board who prefer the dripless teflon packing to the PSS shaft seal. Remember that PSS recommends that you change the bellows every three years. Do you really want to go though this every three years? (You have to pull the shaft to change the bellows) You know you aren't going to do it. Most people put them in because they don't want to fuss with the stuffing box and they run until there is a problem. I've never heard of anybody having a problem with the PSS unit even after ignoring the time recommendations, but it isn't a risk I want to take and that's why I went with the teflon packing. Just throwing in my two bits on that.

Good luck, this can be a painful exercise and a lot of the pain is in your wallet.

S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 (1980)

TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Larry DeMers]

Warren,
Holy smokes!! Well my friend, first off..if they actualy said and meant 10 degrees out, and not .010 in. out, then they are trying for a quick buck. 10 degress is an angle that you physically could see with your eyes, it's so large. The coupler would have to have extension bolts to hold it together on the far side! The engine would be doing the Watoosie all over the cockpit, no music needed!! So I think someone was trying hard to scare you into oking the engine pull. Even if there is a misalignment, the correction is done while the engine is mounted on the beds, not out of the boat. No this was a test of your willingness to open your wallet, according to my well honed "rip off sensors", built into my billfold.
You can resolve this yourself by simply rotating the engine slowly, by hand (pull the alternator belt or rotate the alternator pulley with the decompression lever(s) active). Watch the relative movement of that shaft as it rotates. 10 deg. will be a hugenormous (!) wobble, certainly evident in your testing by hand. My bet is that it is probably .010 in. THis is too much also, but well within your capability to take out as Dave and others have instructed.
A WORD OF WARNING. Anybody that intentionally misleads you like this, especially if you find a minor misadjustment afterall, should be reported up the food chain to management for the marina, maybe mentioning that intentional ripoffs are violations of several laws, and actionable in court. Especially if you have a written estimate on this operation (get it no matter what is done).

Skip the Dripless packing systems. I have seen two fail now, and have read account after account of others wiht troubles keeping the seals from wearing in a year or two, the bellows leaking or the fixture rotating and leaking etc. Look..**Larry's Law #212** High tech takes a back seat to low tech in the reliability dept. If you go high tech, do not do so with functions that are not redundantly backed up by a low tech alternative. My engine is a high tech solution to motivating around..my sails are the low tech solution that I prefer to use. The dripless critter is high tech..the normal stuffing box is about as low tech AND maintenance free as it gets. Since the dripless thing needs a bellows replacement every 3 years, that makes the high tech solution more labor intensive by a long shot, than the low tech solution. Who in their right mind would want that solution then, when the teflon dripless solution means no maintenance other than a check after launching and occasionally glancing at it during the year.

Lastly..I be a big guy physicaly..even for our CD30. SO my little sweetheart of a wife will help when I cannot get down in the area under the cockpit floor to replace my stuffing box this weekend. She also gets down there to help tighten the alternator bolts, etc. Jeesh..I gotta loose some weight. Point is; Maybe grab a helper, mate or ?, and supervise from the lazarette, with suggestions etc. Save them bucks to come on up here for your vacation and sail the islands!

Cheers! and a beer on me (ahh, there is where the weight thing comes from..)

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
~~~We're in our third week aboard on the hard, and the ice is going!~~

Surveyor reports that the "attached hose to the stuffing box shows sections with signs of surface cracks and wall bulging. The hose should be replaced. The clamps and the stuffing box itself looks okay." Question...how hard a job (other than getting to the damn thing in the first place) is it to replace this hose? YSM8 engine.
One other thing along these lines. I was prepared to have the mechanics at my yard replace the entire stuffing box with a Packless Shaft Seal (PSS) unit. Yesterday, they went onto the boat to take a look to see if they could do it. They said they could but they also found that the engine and shaft was about 10 degrees out of alignment with the stern tube. They said that a PSS was designed to work with some malalignment but 10 degrees was really too much. They said they may have to pull the engine and adjust the engine mounts to get everything right when they do all this. They said the malalignment could have happened running aground or something like that. Is there anyway to for me to check if in fact there is misalignment. Call me skeptical but I know it would be a helluva lot easier to replace that stuffing box with the engine out of the way then trying to do it standing on your head thru one of the cockpit lockers. They also said pulling and realigning the engine amounts to one day's labor. I think my yard mechanics get $85 per hour. Things get to add up real fast don't they. Has anyone had any experience with this? I may just want the old stuffing box fixed...but the mechanics say that changing the hose on the old box or putting in a new PSS requires about the same amount of work. Thanks for your suggestions.
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 (1980)

demers@sgi.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Warren,
Holy smokes!! Well my friend, first off..if they actualy said and meant 10 degrees out, and not .010 in. out, then they are trying for a quick buck. 10 degress is an angle that you physically could see with your eyes, it's so large. The coupler would have to have extension bolts to hold it together on the far side! The engine would be doing the Watoosie all over the cockpit, no music needed!! So I think someone was trying hard to scare you into oking the engine pull. Even if there is a misalignment, the correction is done while the engine is mounted on the beds, not out of the boat. No this was a test of your willingness to open your wallet, according to my well honed "rip off sensors", built into my billfold.
You can resolve this yourself by simply rotating the engine slowly, by hand (pull the alternator belt or rotate the alternator pulley with the decompression lever(s) active). Watch the relative movement of that shaft as it rotates. 10 deg. will be a hugenormous (!) wobble, certainly evident in your testing by hand. My bet is that it is probably .010 in. THis is too much also, but well within your capability to take out as Dave and others have instructed.
A WORD OF WARNING. Anybody that intentionally misleads you like this, especially if you find a minor misadjustment afterall, should be reported up the food chain to management for the marina, maybe mentioning that intentional ripoffs are violations of several laws, and actionable in court. Especially if you have a written estimate on this operation (get it no matter what is done).

Skip the Dripless packing systems. I have seen two fail now, and have read account after account of others wiht troubles keeping the seals from wearing in a year or two, the bellows leaking or the fixture rotating and leaking etc. Look..**Larry's Law #212** High tech takes a back seat to low tech in the reliability dept. If you go high tech, do not do so with functions that are not redundantly backed up by a low tech alternative. My engine is a high tech solution to motivating around..my sails are the low tech solution that I prefer to use. The dripless critter is high tech..the normal stuffing box is about as low tech AND maintenance free as it gets. Since the dripless thing needs a bellows replacement every 3 years, that makes the high tech solution more labor intensive by a long shot, than the low tech solution. Who in their right mind would want that solution then, when the teflon dripless solution means no maintenance other than a check after launching and occasionally glancing at it during the year.

Lastly..I be a big guy physicaly..even for our CD30. SO my little sweetheart of a wife will help when I cannot get down in the area under the cockpit floor to replace my stuffing box this weekend. She also gets down there to help tighten the alternator bolts, etc. Jeesh..I gotta loose some weight. Point is; Maybe grab a helper, mate or ?, and supervise from the lazarette, with suggestions etc. Save them bucks to come on up here for your vacation and sail the islands!

Cheers! and a beer on me (ahh, there is where the weight thing comes from..)

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
~~~We're in our third week aboard on the hard, and the ice is going!~~

Larry & Tom,
Thanks for all the help. After your remarks the idea of a PSS does seem to "dwindle" in the mind. High tech, low tech. Everything is relative. Not too long ago teflon was considered a cutting edge high tech material. Now it has been brought down to the epitome of low tech...packing mindless stuffing boxes and lining frying pans. Conjures up all the sophistication of Fred Flintstone! But, as you so aptly advise Larry, not only does it work, its dependable!

As for the misalignment of my sweet old YSM8's prop shaft, as I said in my original post, I've cast a jaundiced eye on that evaluation. The mechanics went on the boat yesterday and the head honcho called me with what they found. I wasn't there when they did the inspection (Sine Qua Non is keeping my nose to the grind stone so I'll have the money to keep her happy) and I haven't been there to take a look myself. All I know is that the last time I used that engine everything seemed to be runnning fine. I'll pull the alternator belt and rotate the shaft to see if its "out of balance" so to speak. If I think that the yard is trying to pull a fast one, I'll sure make a stink. By the way Larry, I'm 6 feet and about 200 pounds myself. My wife is 5'1" and just made for crawling into tight spaces with tools in her fist. Alas, she doesn't know that yet, but she's about to get an education on the responsibilities of the crew. On second thought, I'd better take that wrench out of her fist until she willingly agrees to get cozy with the stuffing box. If I don't I'm liable to think the boom hit me in the head, even though no sails were hoisted and Sine Qua Non is still on the hard! Thanks all!



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[Warren Kaplan]

I was reading Don Casey's "This Old Boat" and on page 153, for those of you who have this marvelous book, it says the following:
"I know you don't want to hear this, but the hull of your boat distorts when it is lifted out of the water. That distortion may be causing the misalignment between the engine and the shaft. Wait until the boat is back in the water to check the gap (between engine coupling and shaft coupling)again........"
Perhaps this is the reason for the observed misalignment my yard mechanics saw?? What do you think??

Warren



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[John MacArthur]

Yes, I think that 10 degrees of misalignment would be noticable! Even running for a short time. I'm actually surprised that you haven't cracked the fiberglas shaft log with that much misalignment! I can't imagine how it would happen.

My shaft alignment out by a lot, although not 10 degrees. I suspect the previous owner let it run for a while with loose engine mount nuts, allowing the engine to slowly "work" its way down, and then just tightened them up. First I knew of it was when the shaft broke right behind the coupling from the constant bow flex. This did *not* produce any vibration; it just finally broke. I was able to remove the shaft zinc, and shove the shaft forward enough to get it into the coupling, after eyeballing the alignment and filing a new flat for the lock screws. The shaft seemed a lot freer in the cutless bearing. It worked well enough to get us the last couple of hundred miles back to port. It's in the yard now, and I'm waiting on "spare time" to yank and replace it, and go over the cutless bearing and stern tube with a magnifying glass, as (like Dave says)I suspect some damage.



jmac@laplaza.org

[Larry DeMers]

Warren,

THis is probable in fact. When we tune our rig after launching and stepping the mast, we always do a hand tightened job for the first 2 weeks, then a formal job with the Loos tension gauge. This is due to the hull flexing in the cradle. So certainly, engine misalignment will also occur! But Not 10 degress worth!!

Glad too hear that you have an able bodied wife that is willing to get at the small spaces..my wife was not all that enthusiastic about getting under the cockpit floor..but I sort of mentioned that it would let us get out in the islands sooner..and that was her guiding light. Hee, good luck!

Larry

I was reading Don Casey's "This Old Boat" and on page 153, for those of you who have this marvelous book, it says the following:
"I know you don't want to hear this, but the hull of your boat distorts when it is lifted out of the water. That distortion may be causing the misalignment between the engine and the shaft. Wait until the boat is back in the water to check the gap (between engine coupling and shaft coupling)again........"
Perhaps this is the reason for the observed misalignment my yard mechanics saw?? What do you think??

Warren

demers@sgi.com

[Tom Vanco]

Warren,
I serously doubt your prop shaft is out 10 degrees. You are correct to think that if it was out that much you would know it!

I don't think your problem is as bad as you may think it is.

Number one: You HAVE to have the boat IN the water, AND rigged, BEFORE the shaft can be alined. Period. It can not be done on the hard. Because as soon as it is in the water and rig it will change the alinement. This is per the Cape Dory's Owner Manual and two other texts on the subject.

Number Two: To get the prop shaft out of the boat you have to unbolt the flang from the transmission. It's only four bolts. If you have a standard automotive gear puller you can use that to get the shaft off of the flange. My baot is a fresh water boat and it came right off. If you are lucky yours may also pop right off. But I have seen where salt water boats are so corroded that you will indeed have to cut the prop and then get a new one. If that is the case, check with Boat U.S. I have seen 1" shafts listed with them that I think would work for a CD. Once the flange is off the shaft, the shaft and prop will slip right past the rudder. Just tip the rudder off to one side.

Number Three: Replace the hose(1-1/2 ID hose) AND as long as you have the shaft out of the boat replace the cutless bearing AND the packing in your stuffing box. You will want to get a
Morse "Blackfish" 4" x 1" x 1-1/4" cuttless bearing. You can get this fron Boat US or West Marine.

Number Four: Slide the shaft back in the boat, bolt everything back up and then when it is back in the water the real fun begins of getting the alinement in spec. CD recommends that you try for .002 around the entire perimeter of the flange coupling. Its most likely going to take you awhile to get this tolerance. But with some patience it can be done.

If you run into any problems e-mail me I'll walk you throught it.

Good Luck.

Tom & Karen Vanco
s/v ANNIE
Erie, PA



ktvanco@juno.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Warren,
I serously doubt your prop shaft is out 10 degrees. You are correct to think that if it was out that much you would know it!

I don't think your problem is as bad as you may think it is.

Number one: You HAVE to have the boat IN the water, AND rigged, BEFORE the shaft can be alined. Period. It can not be done on the hard. Because as soon as it is in the water and rig it will change the alinement. This is per the Cape Dory's Owner Manual and two other texts on the subject.

Number Two: To get the prop shaft out of the boat you have to unbolt the flang from the transmission. It's only four bolts. If you have a standard automotive gear puller you can use that to get the shaft off of the flange. My baot is a fresh water boat and it came right off. If you are lucky yours may also pop right off. But I have seen where salt water boats are so corroded that you will indeed have to cut the prop and then get a new one. If that is the case, check with Boat U.S. I have seen 1" shafts listed with them that I think would work for a CD. Once the flange is off the shaft, the shaft and prop will slip right past the rudder. Just tip the rudder off to one side.

Number Three: Replace the hose(1-1/2 ID hose) AND as long as you have the shaft out of the boat replace the cutless bearing AND the packing in your stuffing box. You will want to get a
Morse "Blackfish" 4" x 1" x 1-1/4" cuttless bearing. You can get this fron Boat US or West Marine.

Number Four: Slide the shaft back in the boat, bolt everything back up and then when it is back in the water the real fun begins of getting the alinement in spec. CD recommends that you try for .002 around the entire perimeter of the flange coupling. Its most likely going to take you awhile to get this tolerance. But with some patience it can be done.

If you run into any problems e-mail me I'll walk you throught it.

Good Luck.

Tom & Karen Vanco
s/v ANNIE
Erie, PA

Tom,
Thanks for all the help. I'm finally going over to the boat today to take my first look "inside" since last year's layup in November. I still have the CD owner's manual that came with the boat and I've read the same thing. I'm going to talk to the mechanics today also to see if there was some "mistake" in this 10 degree alignment business. I really don't understand why they were talking about pulling the engine. My gut feeling is that access to the stuffing box would be much easier with the engine out of the way. I'll find out. I'm also going to take a feeler gauge and go around the coupling to see if in fact there is any misalignment at the coupling. I realize the feeler gauge isn't the whole story but at ten degrees there should be a huge gap! In any event I'll know alot more by the end of the day. Day one is always "seacock day" anyway. Thanks again

Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non



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[Warren Kaplan]

Well I finally got inside Sine Qua Non today to take a look at the alignment of my prop shaft and stuffing box. The good news is that the mechanics are honest so I can deal with them. The bad news is that they are right! What is actually going on is that the shaft is not aligned with the stern tube. You can see that the coupling between the shaft and the engine looks great but the shaft is at an obvious angle with the stern tube. It appears to enter the stuffing box at an angle of about 10 degrees. You can see it looking thru the cockpit locker! The mechanics say that engine most likely isn't centered. Before I bought the boat the engine was overhauled. Perhaps that has something to do with it, then again it may have nothing to do with it. I don't know if the engine was pulled then or if it was moved in any way for the overhaul. The engine may not be on the centerline after that and even though the couplings look "perfect" it makes no difference if the shaft is on an angle to the stern tube. I can't turn the prop because the shaft is loaded going thru the stern tube on an angle. They said they have to "pull" and realign the engine on the hard but then the final fine adjustment will come in the water. They also said this didn't just happen and when I said how come I didn't notice anything they said with a low rpm boat like this you probably missed it but I bet if we put her in now since we are looking for it we would notice something. In any event, they said I could still use it and in mid June will pull her out and get the work done. My boat probably won't go in for a few more weeks so I won't be using the engine too long before we get it done. Well, I lapped 3 seacocks today, put Morey's gease on them and reinstalled them. Hopefully she won't sink when she goes in. She didn't last year so I guess we'll be okay this year. I think I'd better start playing the lottery.



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[Tom]

Well I finally got inside Sine Qua Non today to take a look at the alignment of my prop shaft and stuffing box. The good news is that the mechanics are honest so I can deal with them. The bad news is that they are right! What is actually going on is that the shaft is not aligned with the stern tube. You can see that the coupling between the shaft and the engine looks great but the shaft is at an obvious angle with the stern tube. It appears to enter the stuffing box at an angle of about 10 degrees. You can see it looking thru the cockpit locker! The mechanics say that engine most likely isn't centered. Before I bought the boat the engine was overhauled. Perhaps that has something to do with it, then again it may have nothing to do with it. I don't know if the engine was pulled then or if it was moved in any way for the overhaul. The engine may not be on the centerline after that and even though the couplings look "perfect" it makes no difference if the shaft is on an angle to the stern tube. I can't turn the prop because the shaft is loaded going thru the stern tube on an angle. They said they have to "pull" and realign the engine on the hard but then the final fine adjustment will come in the water. They also said this didn't just happen and when I said how come I didn't notice anything they said with a low rpm boat like this you probably missed it but I bet if we put her in now since we are looking for it we would notice something. In any event, they said I could still use it and in mid June will pull her out and get the work done. My boat probably won't go in for a few more weeks so I won't be using the engine too long before we get it done. Well, I lapped 3 seacocks today, put Morey's gease on them and reinstalled them. Hopefully she won't sink when she goes in. She didn't last year so I guess we'll be okay this year. I think I'd better start playing the lottery.

The engine almost certainly was pulled to do an overhaul. There isn't any other way to get the pan off to loosen the rods so the pistons can be pulled as far as I know. The coupling always looks OK when it's bolted up because the weight of the engine will pull the shaft out of alignment when yo bolt it up. You have to loosen the bolts in the coupling and slide it back before you measure the gap. But one thing for sure is that if you can see the misalignment with your eye it's serious. It sounds like maybe when they reinstalled the engine they didn't align it at all. Just set it on the mounts and tightened it up. Maybe auto mechanics did the installation rather than boat mechanics.

One good thing is that you found this early before you destroyed the clutch plates in your transmission. Re-aligning the engine is a relatively minor deal by itself. You'll almost surely need a cutlass bearing so with a new cutlass, a new dripless stuffing box, and a correctly aligned engine, you should be good for a long time. Slather the coupling good with never seize before you put it back together to give you a shot at getting it off the shaft next time you have to do this. And........Congratulations!



TomCambria@mindspring.com