Gate Valve Question

[Marino Curati]

There was a discussion a while back regarding seacocks or gate valves that are to control the cockpit scuppers on the Typhoon. This has confused me because I can't seem to find either in my boat. I was wondering where they are supposed to be. What I see in the cabin of my Ty is two hoses that come up from the cabin sole and connect to the cockpit sole. Could it be that one of the previous owners has removed them and replaced them with hoses only?

If this is the case it obviously needs to be changed and I don't have any experience with the replacement of such a part. I could use some advice on the best way to make it right.

Thanks,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland



mcurati@vision-design-inc.com

[Tom]

There was a discussion a while back regarding seacocks or gate valves that are to control the cockpit scuppers on the Typhoon. This has confused me because I can't seem to find either in my boat. I was wondering where they are supposed to be. What I see in the cabin of my Ty is two hoses that come up from the cabin sole and connect to the cockpit sole. Could it be that one of the previous owners has removed them and replaced them with hoses only?

If this is the case it obviously needs to be changed and I don't have any experience with the replacement of such a part. I could use some advice on the best way to make it right.

Thanks,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland

The reason that gate valves are not recommended on boats is because when the valve is open, barnacles can grow in the bottom of the valve so that they cannot be closed again. Seacocks which contain rotating cylinders and ball valves which contain rotating balls can be forced shut even with barnacle growth or grit or whatever.

When you say a hose comes up from the cabin sole what does the hose attach to? Is there a bronze through hull that the hose is clamped to, or a molded in bit of fiberglass that it clamps to, or just what?



TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Marino Curati]

I think that it may be just a fiberglass of some sort because there's no flange or anything on the outside of the hull. It's just a flush hole. I've felt under the cabin sole to where it comes up and it doesn't feel like a metal fitting but I can't see it.

Whatever the fitting is, it comes up the cabin sole where the hose is attached to it via a hose clamp. From there it goes up and attaches to the flange in the cockpit sole via another hose clamp.

Based on reading other conversations, I think there's supposed to be a valve in there somewhere but my boat seems to be lacking one. If something happened to one of those hoses, there would surely be trouble.

My boat is an early one (1970) and was wondering what other Typhoons have.

Thanks,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland



mcurati@vision-design-inc.com

[Jim Sullivan]

I think that it may be just a fiberglass of some sort because there's no flange or anything on the outside of the hull. It's just a flush hole. I've felt under the cabin sole to where it comes up and it doesn't feel like a metal fitting but I can't see it.

Whatever the fitting is, it comes up the cabin sole where the hose is attached to it via a hose clamp. From there it goes up and attaches to the flange in the cockpit sole via another hose clamp.

Based on reading other conversations, I think there's supposed to be a valve in there somewhere but my boat seems to be lacking one. If something happened to one of those hoses, there would surely be trouble.

My boat is an early one (1970) and was wondering what other Typhoons have.

Thanks,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland

I have a 1971 Ty (#189) that was set up just like you describe. No gate valves or ball valves were in place when I bought boat (1991). I installed new bronze thru hulls and connected new, wire-reinforced hoses and clamps. I did this because it looked like the molded fiberglass hull connection where hose attached was weak--I also did not find metal thru hull fittings from which the hoses connect to bottom of cockpit sole. I also am wondering if I should install a ball valve between the thru hull fitting and the hose on each side.



jdsullivan@amexol.net

[Craig]

I'll add my two cents. I just purchased my 1981 Ty (past fall). It has gate valves at the thru-hull. My question was whether I really needed a sea-cock or ball-valve or whether the gate valve was sufficient. One valve or another seems necessary in the event of a hose leak. My owner's manual clearly states that a leak in the scupper hose can sink the boat. Therefore a way of stopping the leak (if your'e lucky enough to be around when it ruptures) is necessary. Check the posts from about a month ago (Typhoon Gate valves) and you'll see the components others have used.
Craig

I think that it may be just a fiberglass of some sort because there's no flange or anything on the outside of the hull. It's just a flush hole. I've felt under the cabin sole to where it comes up and it doesn't feel like a metal fitting but I can't see it.

Whatever the fitting is, it comes up the cabin sole where the hose is attached to it via a hose clamp. From there it goes up and attaches to the flange in the cockpit sole via another hose clamp.

Based on reading other conversations, I think there's supposed to be a valve in there somewhere but my boat seems to be lacking one. If something happened to one of those hoses, there would surely be trouble.

My boat is an early one (1970) and was wondering what other Typhoons have.

Thanks,
Marino Curati
Ty #74 Snug
Cleveland

I have a 1971 Ty (#189) that was set up just like you describe. No gate valves or ball valves were in place when I bought boat (1991). I installed new bronze thru hulls and connected new, wire-reinforced hoses and clamps. I did this because it looked like the molded fiberglass hull connection where hose attached was weak--I also did not find metal thru hull fittings from which the hoses connect to bottom of cockpit sole. I also am wondering if I should install a ball valve between the thru hull fitting and the hose on each side.

cnspsych@aol.com

[Neil Gordon]

>>Therefore a way of stopping the leak (if your'e lucky enough to be around when it ruptures) is necessary.<<

There are lots of ways to stop/slow a leak if you're there... I'd have wood plugs on board... but rags, shirt, etc., would work. Be sure you know where the thru hulls are so you can find them.

None of this helps if a hose goes while the boat is in the water unattended. It seems a small risk, though... while I close *most* of the seacocks on LIQUIDITY when I leave, the two cockpit drains are left open. Make sure the hoses are in good shape and that they're double clamped to the fittings.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Marino]

I have a 1971 Ty (#189) that was set up just like you describe. No gate valves or ball valves were in place when I bought boat (1991). I installed new bronze thru hulls and connected new, wire-reinforced hoses and clamps. I did this because it looked like the molded fiberglass hull connection where hose attached was weak--I also did not find metal thru hull fittings from which the hoses connect to bottom of cockpit sole. I also am wondering if I should install a ball valve between the thru hull fitting and the hose on each side.

Did you have to cut off the fiberglass fitting in order to replace it with a bronze through hull fitting?

Also, has anyone every had a major problem with the scupper hoses? Sorry, this is my first boat and I don't know much about this stuff yet. It's making sense now though!

- Marino

[Jim Sullivan]

I used a hole saw to cut the opening in the hull to accept each of the two thru hulls. In the process, the fiberglass section where the hoses originally attached was removed. I sized the hole saw slightly larger in diameter to accept the bronze thru hull fittings which were sealed in place with 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200. I purchased the thru hulls from Standish Boatyard in Tiverton, RI. The hoses that I used were of very good quality and expensive. I have wood plugs on board in case. Obviously, they will be of use only if I'm on board when a hose fails. This year I plan to replace the clamps on both attachment ends. The thru hulls that I used have a threaded portion of sufficient length to attach a gate valve if I so decide. One problem, however, if the gate valve is shut off while no one is on board, the cockpit will collect any rainwater. Suffice to say that the gate valve is only of value if kept in the closed position when no one is on board should a hose let go.

I have a 1971 Ty (#189) that was set up just like you describe. No gate valves or ball valves were in place when I bought boat (1991). I installed new bronze thru hulls and connected new, wire-reinforced hoses and clamps. I did this because it looked like the molded fiberglass hull connection where hose attached was weak--I also did not find metal thru hull fittings from which the hoses connect to bottom of cockpit sole. I also am wondering if I should install a ball valve between the thru hull fitting and the hose on each side.

Did you have to cut off the fiberglass fitting in order to replace it with a bronze through hull fitting?

Also, has anyone every had a major problem with the scupper hoses? Sorry, this is my first boat and I don't know much about this stuff yet. It's making sense now though!

- Marino

jdsullivan@amexol.net

[sloopjohnl]

another time a valve or seacock is useful is when you have a crowd out for the day. four good sized adults in the cockpit may cause the boat to squat a little and a bit of water to come up through the scuppers. nothing of any quantity but enough to wet the bottoms of your feet or socks. closing the valve will prevent this.

I used a hole saw to cut the opening in the hull to accept each of the two thru hulls. In the process, the fiberglass section where the hoses originally attached was removed. I sized the hole saw slightly larger in diameter to accept the bronze thru hull fittings which were sealed in place with 3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200. I purchased the thru hulls from Standish Boatyard in Tiverton, RI. The hoses that I used were of very good quality and expensive. I have wood plugs on board in case. Obviously, they will be of use only if I'm on board when a hose fails. This year I plan to replace the clamps on both attachment ends. The thru hulls that I used have a threaded portion of sufficient length to attach a gate valve if I so decide. One problem, however, if the gate valve is shut off while no one is on board, the cockpit will collect any rainwater. Suffice to say that the gate valve is only of value if kept in the closed position when no one is on board should a hose let go.

I have a 1971 Ty (#189) that was set up just like you describe. No gate valves or ball valves were in place when I bought boat (1991). I installed new bronze thru hulls and connected new, wire-reinforced hoses and clamps. I did this because it looked like the molded fiberglass hull connection where hose attached was weak--I also did not find metal thru hull fittings from which the hoses connect to bottom of cockpit sole. I also am wondering if I should install a ball valve between the thru hull fitting and the hose on each side.

Did you have to cut off the fiberglass fitting in order to replace it with a bronze through hull fitting?

Also, has anyone every had a major problem with the scupper hoses? Sorry, this is my first boat and I don't know much about this stuff yet. It's making sense now though!

- Marino

[Jack, Typhoon Now What]

Everything I've ever read says gatevalves on a through-hull are a no-no. We've had our Typhoon nearly 20 years without a problem, but I had the gatevalves replaced a with seacocks a couple of years ago when the gatevalves corroded. I never closed them, except under heavy load when seawater comes in. If kept closed, rain and snow could sink the boat.Just keep the hoses and clamps in good shape.



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Jack, Typhoon Now What]

Everything I've ever read says gatevalves on a through-hull are a no-no. We've had our Typhoon nearly 20 years without a problem, but I had the gatevalves replaced a with seacocks a couple of years ago when the gatevalves corroded. I never closed them, except under heavy load when seawater comes in. If kept closed, rain and snow could sink the boat.Just keep the hoses and clamps in good shape.



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Neil Gordon]

>>... four good sized adults in the cockpit may cause the boat to squat a little and a bit of water to come up through the scuppers... closing the valve will prevent this.<<

It also keeps any waves that might find their way on board from leaving the boat.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Craig]

It seems that on the Ty the scupper drain hose is one of the most vulnerable, if not the most vulnerable spot on the boat. It all boils down to the quality of the hose. Any suggestions on the best type of hose one can purchase?

Everything I've ever read says gatevalves on a through-hull are a no-no. We've had our Typhoon nearly 20 years without a problem, but I had the gatevalves replaced a with seacocks a couple of years ago when the gatevalves corroded. I never closed them, except under heavy load when seawater comes in. If kept closed, rain and snow could sink the boat.Just keep the hoses and clamps in good shape.

cnspsych@aol.com

[sloopjohnl]

you need hose similar to what is used for automotive radiator hoses. there should be a spiralled wire within the plies of the hose. this construction prevents the hose from collapsing when you put the required bend in it when installing between the through-hull and the tail of the scupper.

It seems that on the Ty the scupper drain hose is one of the most vulnerable, if not the most vulnerable spot on the boat. It all boils down to the quality of the hose. Any suggestions on the best type of hose one can purchase?

Everything I've ever read says gatevalves on a through-hull are a no-no. We've had our Typhoon nearly 20 years without a problem, but I had the gatevalves replaced a with seacocks a couple of years ago when the gatevalves corroded. I never closed them, except under heavy load when seawater comes in. If kept closed, rain and snow could sink the boat.Just keep the hoses and clamps in good shape.

[Bill Bloxham]

After all, the whole purpose of the scupper drain is to insure the safety of the boat.
Given that we are going to have a thru-hull and valve combination with a flexible connector between a flexible deck and a flexible hull, why do we have to struggle with the misalignment created by the liner in our Tys? Is there any reason the thru-hull could not be placed in a straight line with the cockpit scupper drain? Sure, the hull would have to be reinforced (not too much, thou, I bet)and the old hole filled properly, but that is work almost all of us are capable of doing right the first time.
Think of the advantages. No worry about the hose slipping off the sole drain because of the hoses tendency to straighten out, less stress on the drain tube itself, easier access to the seacock and you would not have to use my ball valve/45 degree elbow system of which some of us have offered intelligent criticism.
Or build a bridgedeck and move the cockpit drain back to the thru-hull. That might make it a more comfortable place to sit and move some crew weight forward (always good).
Or am I missing something?
Bill



mmmmmmbill@aol.com