Hi,
Second question,
Saturday was a nice day on Long Island Sound. The wind was 10 or so knots and my wife and I were out practicing sail trim. My question concerns weather helm and balance. We had a 130% genoa up that was trimmed properly. Our main is a little tired but heel was not excessive. We noticed that with gusts she would head up and require a fair amount of pressure on the wheel to bring her back to course.
My question is this. When you say the sails are balanced does it mean that in a constant breeze the boat will track in a straight line but will head up in gust as would be expected or does it mean the boat should continue to track straight even in a gust. I experimented with easing the main slightly and moving the traveler outboard in an effort to power down the main. This helped a little but she still headed up into the gust.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
rich
Sail Trim
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Sail Trim
Hi,
You think you have weather helm? Try sailing a cat rig sometime..in a blow! Whew.
The Cape Dory's all have a bit of weather helm designed in, as is proper. It's done so that if you should stumble and fall off the boat, the boat will round up, and slow down, if not stop completely. Also, if you were to say become incapacitated at the wheel while others are sleeping, the boat will round up luffing the sails, awakening the crew to trouble. It's a good thing -in moderation.
Moderation is perhaps up to a 90 deg. turn (one spoke maybe) of weather helm. Any more than this, and you are wasting energy in resisting the mains influence, as well as having the rudder out in the breeze, slowing things down a bit. So here you want to ease the main out to depower it, while increasing the power of the genoa by moving the car forward, giving the genoa a fuller draft and more power. This will counteract the weather helm, and you will feel the wheels backpressure come down some. IF there is still too much helm, then you have to reef the main (do this first, always). This will give the sailplan more power up forward, which will make you go faster while having less weatherhelm.
The idea of reefing the main first allows you to stand higher in the wind, catching more of the higher velocity air above you, rather than spilling the air out of the sail while heeled heavily (ie: >30 deg.).
Your next reduction would be in the genoa of course.
Cheers! Hope this helped a bit.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~~~~~
demers@sgi.com
You think you have weather helm? Try sailing a cat rig sometime..in a blow! Whew.
The Cape Dory's all have a bit of weather helm designed in, as is proper. It's done so that if you should stumble and fall off the boat, the boat will round up, and slow down, if not stop completely. Also, if you were to say become incapacitated at the wheel while others are sleeping, the boat will round up luffing the sails, awakening the crew to trouble. It's a good thing -in moderation.
Moderation is perhaps up to a 90 deg. turn (one spoke maybe) of weather helm. Any more than this, and you are wasting energy in resisting the mains influence, as well as having the rudder out in the breeze, slowing things down a bit. So here you want to ease the main out to depower it, while increasing the power of the genoa by moving the car forward, giving the genoa a fuller draft and more power. This will counteract the weather helm, and you will feel the wheels backpressure come down some. IF there is still too much helm, then you have to reef the main (do this first, always). This will give the sailplan more power up forward, which will make you go faster while having less weatherhelm.
The idea of reefing the main first allows you to stand higher in the wind, catching more of the higher velocity air above you, rather than spilling the air out of the sail while heeled heavily (ie: >30 deg.).
Your next reduction would be in the genoa of course.
Cheers! Hope this helped a bit.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~~~~~
Richard Formica wrote: Hi,
Second question,
Saturday was a nice day on Long Island Sound. The wind was 10 or so knots and my wife and I were out practicing sail trim. My question concerns weather helm and balance. We had a 130% genoa up that was trimmed properly. Our main is a little tired but heel was not excessive. We noticed that with gusts she would head up and require a fair amount of pressure on the wheel to bring her back to course.
My question is this. When you say the sails are balanced does it mean that in a constant breeze the boat will track in a straight line but will head up in gust as would be expected or does it mean the boat should continue to track straight even in a gust. I experimented with easing the main slightly and moving the traveler outboard in an effort to power down the main. This helped a little but she still headed up into the gust.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
rich
demers@sgi.com
-
Neil Gordon
Re: Sail Trim
>>... or does it mean the boat should continue to track straight even in a gust.<<
Draw a vector diagram if you know how to do that. At the boat moves, its speed creates its own wind, which combines with the true wind. Except when the wind is right behind you, the combined effect is that if the boat increases speed, the relative wind moves forward. If the true wind increases, the wind will appear to fall back.
So, when a gust hits the boat when you are sailing close hauled, the boat *thinks* the wind has shifted further back and reacts accordingly. The gust increases heel, which increases weather helm, which rounds you up. Also, the gust causes your sails to be trimmed too tight if you want to maintain your course. You go from close hauled to a close reach, and have to ease things out accordingly.
The boat will point higher in higher winds, since the effect of boat speed doesn't move the apparent wind too far forward as much. Take advantage of the puffs if they take you closer to where you want to go. Otherwise, take advantage of the greater speed you can get on a reach.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
Draw a vector diagram if you know how to do that. At the boat moves, its speed creates its own wind, which combines with the true wind. Except when the wind is right behind you, the combined effect is that if the boat increases speed, the relative wind moves forward. If the true wind increases, the wind will appear to fall back.
So, when a gust hits the boat when you are sailing close hauled, the boat *thinks* the wind has shifted further back and reacts accordingly. The gust increases heel, which increases weather helm, which rounds you up. Also, the gust causes your sails to be trimmed too tight if you want to maintain your course. You go from close hauled to a close reach, and have to ease things out accordingly.
The boat will point higher in higher winds, since the effect of boat speed doesn't move the apparent wind too far forward as much. Take advantage of the puffs if they take you closer to where you want to go. Otherwise, take advantage of the greater speed you can get on a reach.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
-
hd
Re: Sail Trim
Hello!
I echo the "reef the main" comments. When the wind builds too much or gusts, reef the main once. Then, see how this keeps the boat on a straight course. If it still heads up, put two reefs in the main. Still heads up or weather conditions deteriorate (i.e., wind and seas building), then take down the main altogether and keep underway with jib only. If you still head up, then take in jibsail or replace it with a smaller sail.
You'll be amazed at how well the CD28 travels and tracks in high winds (25kts+)/heavy seas under reefed sails. The only problems at that point are whether or not you can physically endure the constant severe boat movements (i.e., body bouncing all over the cockpit) and maintain your energy level and sanity to endure the melee - even with a self-steering windvane in play. Accordingly, in my experience, a well-maintained CD will be around for many, many years after we ("sailors") are planted in the ground (or under the sea, as the case may be).
Best Regards,
HD - Capt. S/V Aguila, a CD28
I echo the "reef the main" comments. When the wind builds too much or gusts, reef the main once. Then, see how this keeps the boat on a straight course. If it still heads up, put two reefs in the main. Still heads up or weather conditions deteriorate (i.e., wind and seas building), then take down the main altogether and keep underway with jib only. If you still head up, then take in jibsail or replace it with a smaller sail.
You'll be amazed at how well the CD28 travels and tracks in high winds (25kts+)/heavy seas under reefed sails. The only problems at that point are whether or not you can physically endure the constant severe boat movements (i.e., body bouncing all over the cockpit) and maintain your energy level and sanity to endure the melee - even with a self-steering windvane in play. Accordingly, in my experience, a well-maintained CD will be around for many, many years after we ("sailors") are planted in the ground (or under the sea, as the case may be).
Best Regards,
HD - Capt. S/V Aguila, a CD28
-
Don Carr
Re: Sail Trim
Rich;
Neil has the physics/aerodynamics correct. I will add a couple of thoughts: One thing highly recommended is to watch your windex and when the gust occurs head up,once the gust subsides, fall off. This in combination with easing the sheet is called 'feathering'. Having said this, it gets significantly more complex with wind shifts during the gust. One very good skill to learn is that of reading the wind. My $.02.
carrd48@netzero.net
Neil has the physics/aerodynamics correct. I will add a couple of thoughts: One thing highly recommended is to watch your windex and when the gust occurs head up,once the gust subsides, fall off. This in combination with easing the sheet is called 'feathering'. Having said this, it gets significantly more complex with wind shifts during the gust. One very good skill to learn is that of reading the wind. My $.02.
carrd48@netzero.net
-
Richard Formica
Thanks
Hi,
Thanks for the comments.
Larry, I appreciate your thoughts on powering up and down the jib. I will try this.
Don and Neil, you both have described techniques I used racing FJ's and Cape Cod Mercuries on the Charles River in Boston. There not only does the wind change but the buildings bend it as well. I infer from your responses that these are also applicable on a larger boat. I'll confess that I was unsuccessful at feathering my CD. I kept overshooting and stalling the jib. Perhaps this requires getting more familiar with the boat's movements.
Thanks again for the help.
rich
Thanks for the comments.
Larry, I appreciate your thoughts on powering up and down the jib. I will try this.
Don and Neil, you both have described techniques I used racing FJ's and Cape Cod Mercuries on the Charles River in Boston. There not only does the wind change but the buildings bend it as well. I infer from your responses that these are also applicable on a larger boat. I'll confess that I was unsuccessful at feathering my CD. I kept overshooting and stalling the jib. Perhaps this requires getting more familiar with the boat's movements.
Thanks again for the help.
rich
-
Ken Purdy
Re: Sail Trim
Rich:
I had a bad weather helm. I found out, if you adjust the stays it will correct the problem.
Happy Sailing,
Ken
kenpur@bcpl.net
I had a bad weather helm. I found out, if you adjust the stays it will correct the problem.
Happy Sailing,
Ken
Richard Formica wrote: Hi,
Second question,
Saturday was a nice day on Long Island Sound. The wind was 10 or so knots and my wife and I were out practicing sail trim. My question concerns weather helm and balance. We had a 130% genoa up that was trimmed properly. Our main is a little tired but heel was not excessive. We noticed that with gusts she would head up and require a fair amount of pressure on the wheel to bring her back to course.
My question is this. When you say the sails are balanced does it mean that in a constant breeze the boat will track in a straight line but will head up in gust as would be expected or does it mean the boat should continue to track straight even in a gust. I experimented with easing the main slightly and moving the traveler outboard in an effort to power down the main. This helped a little but she still headed up into the gust.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
rich
kenpur@bcpl.net