working jib sheet

[radsailor]

I have a new working jib~110%. At first I led the sheet inside both upper and lower spreader to cabin top fairlead to cam cleats I installed.. Recently changed it so it goes between lower and upper spreader.

Anyone have thoughts on which is better ?

[ghockaday]

Best sail shape? Something you would have to see. Dennis

[John Stone]

I have a new working jib~110%. At first I led the sheet inside both upper and lower spreader to cabin top fairlead to cam cleats I installed.. Recently changed it so it goes between lower and upper spreader.

Anyone have thoughts on which is better ?

Can you provide more info? What kind of boat? Maybe add a few photos so we can see what you have set up. You mean upper and lower shrouds not spreaders.

Someone on the forum will have the same model boat you have or at least have experience with it and can make some recommendations for you to consider. But we need more info....

Pictures are easy to upload right from your phone.

[radsailor]

I must have been very tired when I made the original post.
The boat is a Typhoon Weekender. Of course I meant the shrouds and not spreaders.
Tried to take photos, but cannot get far enough aft to get a good shot.

When I have the sheets led inside both shrouds, the leech seems to curve inward whereas when led between upper and lower, a smoother, straighter exit from leech. This is especially pronounced off the wind.

[Peter Young]

I use a furling jib on my Typhoon, and whether I lead the jib sheets inboard of the shrouds and through the fairlead on the cabin top very much depends on expected wind and direction. I find the Typhoon points better with inboard jib sheets but concede that I am not trying to squeeze extra speed when I am out not the water - most often I have the jib sheets outboard of the shrouds.

Was a great summer on Lake Champlain, and sorry to see it over. Envious of those of you with more sailing season left.

[radsailor]

I use a furling jib on my Typhoon, and whether I lead the jib sheets inboard of the shrouds and through the fairlead on the cabin top very much depends on expected wind and direction. I find the Typhoon points better with inboard jib sheets but concede that I am not trying to squeeze extra speed when I am out not the water - most often I have the jib sheets outboard of the shrouds.

Was a great summer on Lake Champlain, and sorry to see it over. Envious of those of you with more sailing season left.

Is it snowing yet up North ?

Thanks for replying. can you elaborate re which wind conditions you run the sheets inboard of shrouds and which you run between or outside of shrouds. I imagine if you have a destination that is a reach, running them outboard of the shrouds would be better
The main reason for my question is I am racing PHRF which is painful for the other boats as they must wait for me to finish. The boat came with a 155% genoa, but as I race solo, this is sometimes more than a handful. I recently got the working jib and at first ran the sheets inboard of the shrouds. However, off the wind, it seemed like an inefficient angle. I cannot quickly and easily change the sheeting arrangement for each leg of a race so I am looking for the best compromise.

[wikakaru]

The working jib in my Typhoon is a little smaller than yours--more like 100%--and the sheet runs inside (i.e. forward) of both the upper and lower shrouds:

IMG_4946.jpg

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[radsailor]

nice photo. It looks right.

[wikakaru]

I recently got the working jib and at first ran the sheets inboard of the shrouds. However, off the wind, it seemed like an inefficient angle. I cannot quickly and easily change the sheeting arrangement for each leg of a race so I am looking for the best compromise.

For racing, you could try adding a second set of smaller diameter (maybe 1/4") jib sheets run outside of the shrouds back to the track on the rail that you use when going downwind, and keep the original sheets inboard of the shrouds for upwind sailing. The loads downwind will be much less than upwind. Then just use whichever sheet you need to make the lead angle correct. I'm not sure how much the extra set of sheets would get in the way when tacking. Kind of a kludge, but worth a try.

I'm curious if your 110% jib touches the lower shroud when close-hauled and sheeted to the lead on the cabin house. The leech of my jib is about an inch from the shroud when close-hauled. I have thought about going to a slightly larger jib to get the sheet lead to move aft a bit, but worried the leech would then chafe on the shroud.

Smooth sailing,

--Jim

[radsailor]

Good question. I always stopped trimming just before the clew/leech would touch the lower shroud, so I guess if I trimmed in harder, it would touch. I think if I trim it in more, the slot will be choked off. I would probably point higher, but go much slower. Also , the sailmaker advised me to attach a leech telltale about 70% of the way to the head of the jib. Upwind, trim until it stalls, then ease until it flies. Then use regular telltales to steer.

I had thought about a second set of sheets for off the wind, but as it is, the sheets snag on the halyard cleats and the fitting for the whisker pole so probably not a great idea. If I had one other person with me the crew could set up the lazy sheet outside of the shrouds before we get to the windward mark. Actually, as I am thinking while writing, I could probably let out the main a bit and tie off the tiller a little to windward and run the lazy sheet myself. Should only take about 10 seconds. I will give this a try next time I am out just for practice. The club races this Summer and Fall have had only 1 windward leg so would not have to change it back.

[radsailor]

I just emailed the sailmaker asking his opinion

[radsailor]

The sailmaker responds: If upwind performance is most important, sheet should be inside the shrouds. If downwind performance most important, between the shrouds.

[John Stone]

Offshore, on my boomless stays’l, which is a little like your jib, I use the two sheet option.

I have never sailed a Ty, so I don’t know for certain but something to consider is do you have a better speed of advance sheeted inside or outside when going upwind. Full keel boats won’t as a rule point as high as a fin keeled boat. Sure, you can sheet in tight and point the boat high but often times the keel stalls and you really sailer slower though you point higher. Foot off just a little and you sail faster. So, your speed of advance is better. Figuring out your boat’s sweet spot is what’s key. This is a big mistake many folks make with a full keel boat (they try to point to high) and it’s also why fin keel boats don’t have such an advantage over full keel boats sailing upwind offshore. The fin boats are light and can pound terribly going upwind in big swells so they have to foot off. Their tacking angles end up being about the same as many full keel boats with wider shroud bases.

Maybe the Ty does better with the jib sheeted inside but don’t assume it unless you have determined that to be so. Ty sailors seem to be pretty going ho so probably someone has figured it out.

You might also find that sheeted inside is better upwind on flat water but better sheeted outside when there is a chop for the reasons mentioned above.

[John Stone]

I found two photos that kind of illustrate my comments above. Below are two pictures taken sailing upwind on two different occasions headed to the British Virgin Islands in Dec 2015 and 2018.

In the first one we are sailing on relatively flat water after a night of calm. Wind about 10-12 kts. All plain sail. The staysail is sheeted inside the shrouds to a dedicated deck sheet pad eye. We are close hauled to the max, sailing upwind as high as we can.

The second photo we are close reaching in 10’-14’ seas and about 30-35 kts. The main is lashed down in the gallows and the stays’l is double reefed and sheeted outside to the bulwarks. The conditions are much rougher but we are doing what we can we can to gain a little more easting. We are sailing as high as we can and still manage reasonable speed and with some semblance of comfort but more importantly avoiding punishing the boat.

So, sheeted inside for flat upwind work and outside as soon as we foot off.

[radsailor]

Thanks for the in depth reply. What you say makes sense. I guess my problem is I am racing PHRF solo on short courses (~4miles) and need to just pick one configuration for each race. The wind and waves are very variable where I sail- can start out light and quickly get heavy and vis versa.
I did notice in two races where it was blowing 15+ with 3-4 foot seas (with mainsail flogging upwind, but very fast downwind- hit 7.2kts surfing down a wave) I did very well after time correction and even beat a few boats with much lower handicaps.

So, I guess racing I will have to make my choice and live with it each race.

I should just enjoy sailing the boat !