Experience level, boat seaworthyness, and atlantic crossings

[Robert Douglas]

Hi everyone!

I have posted on this message board a few times previously and appriciate everyone's repsonses and insights. I am writing to ask a complicated question that there may not be an answer to, but thought I would try anyway:) My wife and I are proud Cape Dory 25D owners. We are strictly week-end sailors, but have taken our reponsibilites as Cape Dory owners very seriously by working on our skills and making important improvements to the boat over time. We are on a three year plan to move over seas to be closer to familiy and we really really want to take our Cape Dory with us. Perhaps you see where this is going? Aside from shipping the boat, is it realistic to think about gaining solid offshore experience through ASA courses up to 108 and taking longer trips with our boat to gain experince with the goal of taking her accross the Atlantic overselves? Even if we gained the proper training and expereince, is such a small boat up to the task of a west to east crossing? I am trying to understand if I am being totally unrealistic. Any insights would be greatly appriciated.

Take Care,

Robert

[bottomscraper]

Tania Aebi did a circumnavigation in a Contessa 26, a similar sized boat. Would I do it? Not a chance

[John Stone]

Multi-part question...Multi-part answer.

Can the boat make the trip? Yes. The quality of build is there. As Rich pointed out many Contessa 26s have made the trip safely and they are of similar size—about 5000lbs.

Can you gain the skills in the three years? Yes, though I am not sure ASA is the way to go but that’s a different discussion. The bigger issue is are you and your wife up to it. People have in their mind a vision of what’s its like and the reality is almost always something different. It’s a lot of motion. Way more than you think. It will be at time gorgeous, other times scared. Most of the time it will be uncomfortable.

I have not made this specific voyage though it’s in my radar. I’ve sailed 1800 nm to the Virgin Islands from NC in Dec twice. it’s a hard trip. Big waves and at times a lot of wind. But my boat is 18,000 lbs. and I built it specifically for offshore sailing. Does not mean a CD 25D can’t make the trip. It most assuredly can if you set it up right which does not mean a lot of expensive unnecessary stuff. But the rig needs to be solid as a rock. Good sails with a good reefing system. A good Windvane. A strong dodger on a boat that small or at least a robust pram hood. The boat will be loaded down for two people. A lot of provisions and equipment. Drogue, warps, dinghy. GPS and charts. Life raft if you want one though not necessary. The boat needs to be as watertight as you can make it. It will be a wet ride. If the water gets in it will be miserable. Water will find every non watertight opening to include the hull deck joint, hatches, portlights. Did I mention it will be wet inside? It’s a long trip from the US east coast. Probably a June/July trip. Over a month of sailing broken into stages with stops in Bermuda and the Azores. So probably 45 days from start to finish. Couple ways to do it. Which is not important at the moment. But the further north you get the more extremes the weather can and probably will be. You’ll be lucky to average 100-110 miles a day.

At 5000 lbs there will be tremendous motion and the decks will had times be covered in water. It’s going to be wet.

The trip will be hard. Whether you succeed or not depends on how tough and determined the people are making it. So think about that.

A CD 28 or 30 or Alberg 30 is a better candidate in my mind though the boat you have is the 25D. I’d check the cost to ship it. You might find it will cost you the same or more to prep the boat for such a big tough trip. The wear and tear in the boat will be almost zero if you ship it. It will be significant if you sail her there on her own bottom.

You and your wife have to be both fully committed and equally determined or it is not going to go well probably.

It would be a heck of an adventure but extraordinarily difficult.

If it’s the only boat I had and I really wanted to make the trip I would do it but a CD 30 is better suited and she is kind of on the small size.

There is a couple that’s just sailed a CD 30 to Europe from the east coast. They have posted on the forum. Their boat is called Olive Oyl. I’d reach out to them and see what they have to say.

[Steve Laume]

There are a lot of really nice boats for sale in Europe, and you could still sail as a married couple, Steve
.

[tjr818]

Robert, I have one question; how old are you and your wife?
This certainly something My wife and I would have done in our twenties or thirties, but as we age we become far more interested in less challenging things, sad but true. We have grown spoiled with things like air conditioning, warm meals, dry beds, and cold beer.. if you can do without those things, I’d say start preparing, see how you both feel after a few overnight cruises, then a longer journey maybe a week or so, if you still want to go for it - go.

Best wishes to you both and keep us informed n

[wikakaru]

As usual, John Stone has given you a well thought out reply. Here's my additional 2 cents.

This type of voyage can be accomplished in a CD25D, but it will not be a pleasure cruise, it will be an expedition. If you are considering proceeding along this route, and you believe that while you lack the skills you have the fortitude to accomplish such an expedition, you should read the following:

Matt Rutherford's account of outfitting his round-the-Americas voyage on an Albin Vega 27. Pay attention to his experience level and what he did to modify the boat. https://solotheamericas.org/. Admittedly, Rutherford did far more than a trans-Atlantic crossing, but his experience is instructive. (Don't just watch the video. It's a nice film about what determination can do, but you want to read the details in Matt's blog.)

Robert Manry's west-to-east crossing of the Atlantic on Tinkerbelle, 13.5 foot boat, in 1965. That's a much smaller boat, and it was certainly a different world back then, but it might give you a clue of what the experience could be like. The book is available on Amazon.com.

Randall Reeve's Figure 8 circumnavigation of the globe on a 45-foot aluminum sailboat at figure8voyage.com. I include him in this list because I think Randall had a key insight into this kind of voyage, whether it is an unprecedented figure-8 circumnavigation of the globe or a west-to-east crossing of the Atlantic on a CD25D. Here's a quote from his blog:

There is a line that’s popular with sailboat cruisers today: “We will do this as long as it’s fun.” It’s why I’m not a cruiser. Fun is a terrible organizing principle.

Many days on Mo are quite dull, a few are downright terrifying, most are made up of chores and the unexciting routine of shipboard life. When all those days are strung together and viewed as a complete voyage–a voyage that one envisioned, prepared for and pursued, largely on ones own–then they become a thing of deep satisfaction. But the fun had along the way is hardly worth noting.

If you feel passionate about this, by all means pursue it. With the proper planning, preparation, and skill it can certainly be done. But if your objective is primarily to get the boat across the ocean in a manner less expensive and more "fun" than shipping the boat to Europe, you are on the wrong course.

Smooth sailing,

--Jim

[Robert Douglas]

Good morning Rich, John, Steve, Tim, and Jim,

I am very thankful for your gerousity in responding with such detail to my question. I was really nervouse about asking becuase my gut told me I was barking-up the wrong tree. Verona and I are in are in our mid-forties and while we are always down for a "little" adventure The west to east crossing in our boat sounds like more than we would want to handle for sure. I was originally motivated by a documentry I saw that showecased two expereince sailors crossing east to west via the trade wind route in a boat smaller than ours. Sunny days, moderate winds, and large but smooth rollers seemed to define the experience. Once I began learning that west east crossing is a completely different thing my inner "safety and expereince" alarm went off. Perhaps if we were in our 20's we might feel differently but shipping the boat or buying a new one overseas seems to be the correct solution.

Thank you to Cape Dory community for helping me with this, giving me the reality, and poiting me to toward solid resouces in terms of reading etc. I plan to get a shipping qoute and promise to share with the community as an FYI for anyone who is interested. Also, will begin looking a boat sales overseas.

Cheers to you all and thank you again!
Robert