I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
heavinj@kiva.net
whats it worth?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: whats it worth?
It's both a floor wax and a dessert topping!
Cape Dory went out of business in 1990 and Andy Vavolotis, the founder/owner of Cape Dory Yachts, reorganized as Robinhood Yachts and moved the operation from Taunton, MA to Georgetown, ME. He sold the Cape Dory name when they went out of business along with a few of the molds. But he still has some of the Cape Dory molds and continues to build boats using those molds except they bear the Robinhood name. The boat's construction was probably started by Cape Dory and finished by Robinhood since it was launched during the transition time frame.
What's it worth? Cape Dory/Robinhood built/builds high quality yachts so you can compare the cost of the 1991 Cape Dory with a 1991 boat of similar construction and quality, like the Island Packet 29 or 27. A 1991 IP29 goes for around $85,000 or more depending on how it's equipped. And a 1991 IP27 will fetch about $65,000 to $70,000. A boat with refrigeration, A/C, radar, or the like, will be more expensive than the same model without that stuff.
The CD30 is probably more similar in size to the IP27 volume-wise, so I'd guess a 1991 CD30 could fetch up to $70,000, especially if it's loaded with goodies.
Have fun with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
Cape Dory went out of business in 1990 and Andy Vavolotis, the founder/owner of Cape Dory Yachts, reorganized as Robinhood Yachts and moved the operation from Taunton, MA to Georgetown, ME. He sold the Cape Dory name when they went out of business along with a few of the molds. But he still has some of the Cape Dory molds and continues to build boats using those molds except they bear the Robinhood name. The boat's construction was probably started by Cape Dory and finished by Robinhood since it was launched during the transition time frame.
What's it worth? Cape Dory/Robinhood built/builds high quality yachts so you can compare the cost of the 1991 Cape Dory with a 1991 boat of similar construction and quality, like the Island Packet 29 or 27. A 1991 IP29 goes for around $85,000 or more depending on how it's equipped. And a 1991 IP27 will fetch about $65,000 to $70,000. A boat with refrigeration, A/C, radar, or the like, will be more expensive than the same model without that stuff.
The CD30 is probably more similar in size to the IP27 volume-wise, so I'd guess a 1991 CD30 could fetch up to $70,000, especially if it's loaded with goodies.
Have fun with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Mike
Re: whats it worth?
Using your same logic, wouldn't it be more realistic to compare with an early/mid 1980s Cape Dory 30? I think they sell for around $30,000. Why compare to something else? Mike
michaelconniesmith@home.com
Catherine Monaghan wrote: Cape Dory went out of business in 1990 and Andy Vavolotis, the founder/owner of Cape Dory Yachts, reorganized as Robinhood Yachts and moved the operation from Taunton, MA to Georgetown, ME. He sold the Cape Dory name when they went out of business along with a few of the molds. But he still has some of the Cape Dory molds and continues to build boats using those molds except they bear the Robinhood name. The boat's construction was probably started by Cape Dory and finished by Robinhood since it was launched during the transition time frame.
What's it worth? Cape Dory/Robinhood built/builds high quality yachts so you can compare the cost of the 1991 Cape Dory with a 1991 boat of similar construction and quality, like the Island Packet 29 or 27. A 1991 IP29 goes for around $85,000 or more depending on how it's equipped. And a 1991 IP27 will fetch about $65,000 to $70,000. A boat with refrigeration, A/C, radar, or the like, will be more expensive than the same model without that stuff.
The CD30 is probably more similar in size to the IP27 volume-wise, so I'd guess a 1991 CD30 could fetch up to $70,000, especially if it's loaded with goodies.
Have fun with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
michaelconniesmith@home.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: whats it worth?
The model year is important since the pricing of the boat the year it was built is based on economic factors, value of the dollar, cost of materials, labor, etc. It is then devalued by its age, condition, demand, etc., based on its original purchase price. But its actual selling price may also be effected by the economy as well as competition with its rival older CD30s. (There are a lot of older CD30s out there that can be had for a lot less then $70,000. Prospective buyers may opt for the less expensive older boats forcing the seller to reduce his asking price.)
So to know what a boat is worth, it has to be compared to similar models of the same model year. For example, the CD36 was built between 1979 and 1991. A 1979 model does not share the same value as a 1991 model. A 1979 can only be compared to another 1979 pricewise. But it can also be compared to other 1979 boats built by other manufactures as long as they are similar in construction and quality.
Hope this helps.
Cathy
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
So to know what a boat is worth, it has to be compared to similar models of the same model year. For example, the CD36 was built between 1979 and 1991. A 1979 model does not share the same value as a 1991 model. A 1979 can only be compared to another 1979 pricewise. But it can also be compared to other 1979 boats built by other manufactures as long as they are similar in construction and quality.
Hope this helps.
Cathy
Mike wrote: Using your same logic, wouldn't it be more realistic to compare with an early/mid 1980s Cape Dory 30? I think they sell for around $30,000. Why compare to something else? Mike
Catherine Monaghan wrote: Cape Dory went out of business in 1990 and Andy Vavolotis, the founder/owner of Cape Dory Yachts, reorganized as Robinhood Yachts and moved the operation from Taunton, MA to Georgetown, ME. He sold the Cape Dory name when they went out of business along with a few of the molds. But he still has some of the Cape Dory molds and continues to build boats using those molds except they bear the Robinhood name. The boat's construction was probably started by Cape Dory and finished by Robinhood since it was launched during the transition time frame.
What's it worth? Cape Dory/Robinhood built/builds high quality yachts so you can compare the cost of the 1991 Cape Dory with a 1991 boat of similar construction and quality, like the Island Packet 29 or 27. A 1991 IP29 goes for around $85,000 or more depending on how it's equipped. And a 1991 IP27 will fetch about $65,000 to $70,000. A boat with refrigeration, A/C, radar, or the like, will be more expensive than the same model without that stuff.
The CD30 is probably more similar in size to the IP27 volume-wise, so I'd guess a 1991 CD30 could fetch up to $70,000, especially if it's loaded with goodies.
Have fun with your boat search.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Neil Gordon
Re: whats it worth?
>>The model year is important since the pricing of the boat the year it was built is based on economic factors, value of the dollar, cost of materials, labor, etc.<<
The model year is only important because everything else being equal, a buyer will go for the newer boat. The cost of materials in 1977, value of the $$ then, etc., doesn't matter as much as the cost of a comparable new or newer boat now. The price curve is easy to see in large volume production boats still in production, like Catalinas.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
The model year is only important because everything else being equal, a buyer will go for the newer boat. The cost of materials in 1977, value of the $$ then, etc., doesn't matter as much as the cost of a comparable new or newer boat now. The price curve is easy to see in large volume production boats still in production, like Catalinas.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
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Cathy
Re: whats it worth?
Your right.
The original question was "What's it worth"? and for that you have to refer to the make, model, and year it was built, then add or subtract for condition and gear and try to predict what the current market will bear.
If you were selling your CD28, you'd want to know what other CD28 owners were getting for their boats and base your pricing on that of the other CD28s of the same vintage. Again, you wouldn't expect to get the same price for a 1974 model as you would for a 1987 model. The pricing for all the 1974 models should be relatively close. If you see one with a relatively low price compared to the rest, you have to ask yourself "what's wrong with it?" If you see one with a relatively high price compared to the rest, then you'd want to know "what's she got that the others aint?"
The 1991 CD30 is a loner. There are no others. So to estimate what it's worth you have to compare it to other similar 1991 models. You'd also want to find out what the 1987 model was worth since that was the last production year for the CD30. The boat in question is a newer boat and will be valued higher than a 1987 model especially since she was custom built.
By the way, there's a 1987 CD30MKII for sale in Cataumet , MA. The owner wants $70,000 for it! Theres another 1987 CD30MKII for sale in DelRay Beach, FL -- asking price $57,500. (There's a wide price gap between those two boats. I'd want to know why.) And a 1984 CD30 Cutter for sale in Cotuit, MA -- asking price $52,900. A 1984 CD31 Cutter, Charleston, SC -- asking price $59,900. So you can see, $65,000 to $70,000 would not be an unreasonable asking price for a 1991 CD30.
Cathy
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
The original question was "What's it worth"? and for that you have to refer to the make, model, and year it was built, then add or subtract for condition and gear and try to predict what the current market will bear.
If you were selling your CD28, you'd want to know what other CD28 owners were getting for their boats and base your pricing on that of the other CD28s of the same vintage. Again, you wouldn't expect to get the same price for a 1974 model as you would for a 1987 model. The pricing for all the 1974 models should be relatively close. If you see one with a relatively low price compared to the rest, you have to ask yourself "what's wrong with it?" If you see one with a relatively high price compared to the rest, then you'd want to know "what's she got that the others aint?"
The 1991 CD30 is a loner. There are no others. So to estimate what it's worth you have to compare it to other similar 1991 models. You'd also want to find out what the 1987 model was worth since that was the last production year for the CD30. The boat in question is a newer boat and will be valued higher than a 1987 model especially since she was custom built.
By the way, there's a 1987 CD30MKII for sale in Cataumet , MA. The owner wants $70,000 for it! Theres another 1987 CD30MKII for sale in DelRay Beach, FL -- asking price $57,500. (There's a wide price gap between those two boats. I'd want to know why.) And a 1984 CD30 Cutter for sale in Cotuit, MA -- asking price $52,900. A 1984 CD31 Cutter, Charleston, SC -- asking price $59,900. So you can see, $65,000 to $70,000 would not be an unreasonable asking price for a 1991 CD30.
Cathy
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... lization's Home Page</a>
Neil Gordon wrote: The model year is only important because everything else being equal, a buyer will go for the newer boat. The cost of materials in 1977, value of the $$ then, etc., doesn't matter as much as the cost of a comparable new or newer boat now. The price curve is easy to see in large volume production boats still in production, like Catalinas.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: whats it worth?
I thought I would chime in since I own (and love) a 1983 CD30 cutter also. Everybody has given a good glimpse into what you can use to develope an idea of that boats worth.
I would also respectfully add that you consider what the boat would resell for after you have had her for a while (everybody changes boats or gets out completely at some point).
Your competition of course is the plethora of CD28,29,30 and 31's out there. At $70k, you arguably could buy a so-so CD30, strip it completely, and rebuild her from the cushions on up for $10k less than the asking price of that boat ($30k for the boat, $30,000 for accessories, equipment, labor and a good bottle of champagne for the launch). That's a powerful argument for a buyer in that price and/or size range, and a hard nut to accept for the anxious seller. So expect that she may be slow to sell, and you may have to negotiate a bit. In reality, you will probably end up discounting the price to sell her in reasonable time.
Now that said, there is the attraction of an unusual boat, which is a niche area that seems to have looser bounds to the prices paid for the boats. Your boat could possibly fit into that category, and if that happens, then you are in great shape.
I have always looked at buying homes and boats with the eventual sale in mind. You can still get the boat that makes your heart stop a bit when you look at her (still happens to me after 10 yrs. with our boat), but keep a bit of dollar sense about you too.\
Best of Luck -it's a darn exciting experience ahead of you
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
I would also respectfully add that you consider what the boat would resell for after you have had her for a while (everybody changes boats or gets out completely at some point).
Your competition of course is the plethora of CD28,29,30 and 31's out there. At $70k, you arguably could buy a so-so CD30, strip it completely, and rebuild her from the cushions on up for $10k less than the asking price of that boat ($30k for the boat, $30,000 for accessories, equipment, labor and a good bottle of champagne for the launch). That's a powerful argument for a buyer in that price and/or size range, and a hard nut to accept for the anxious seller. So expect that she may be slow to sell, and you may have to negotiate a bit. In reality, you will probably end up discounting the price to sell her in reasonable time.
Now that said, there is the attraction of an unusual boat, which is a niche area that seems to have looser bounds to the prices paid for the boats. Your boat could possibly fit into that category, and if that happens, then you are in great shape.
I have always looked at buying homes and boats with the eventual sale in mind. You can still get the boat that makes your heart stop a bit when you look at her (still happens to me after 10 yrs. with our boat), but keep a bit of dollar sense about you too.\
Best of Luck -it's a darn exciting experience ahead of you
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Lake Superior~~~
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
demers@sgi.com
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Ken Coit
Re: whats it worth?
I agree with Catherine that the year matters; so does the manufacturer. To get a good idea of how much it matters in asking price, you can create a scatter diagram plotting prices vertically and model years horizontally. It takes 10 boats or so before the pattern becomes obvious, but the boats that are out of range, high or low, really stick out. Of course, if you can get selling prices, you are that much better off.
Good luck in your search.
Ken
ken-shelley.coit@worldnet.att.net
Good luck in your search.
Ken
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
ken-shelley.coit@worldnet.att.net
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KenCave
Re: whats it worth?
Sorry folks, but I cannot agree with you on age verses price.
I just purchased a l979 Cape Dory (still on the hard) for top dollar, but if I had to replace the new Ulmann sails, radar, frig system, autohelms (2) Maxwell windless, new canvas, including a custom dodger, etc. I am looking at really big bucks!! (the surveyor actually priced the replacement value at $125,000) Am I stupid for paying top dollar for a boat that has been taken care of and is ready for blue water sailing? I don't think so.
I also have a l978 Catalina with all the bells and whistles, and sold it for top dollar to the first couple that saw it!
Unfortunately, there is a lot of junk out there-owners that are unwilling to even clean off the bird poop off the decks.........
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
I just purchased a l979 Cape Dory (still on the hard) for top dollar, but if I had to replace the new Ulmann sails, radar, frig system, autohelms (2) Maxwell windless, new canvas, including a custom dodger, etc. I am looking at really big bucks!! (the surveyor actually priced the replacement value at $125,000) Am I stupid for paying top dollar for a boat that has been taken care of and is ready for blue water sailing? I don't think so.
I also have a l978 Catalina with all the bells and whistles, and sold it for top dollar to the first couple that saw it!
Unfortunately, there is a lot of junk out there-owners that are unwilling to even clean off the bird poop off the decks.........
Hope this helps
Ken Cave
bcave@whidbey.net
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Neil Gordon
Re: whats it worth?
>>If you were selling your CD28, ...<<
I love LIQUIDITY and would hope that I'd own her forever. The prospect that I might one day sell her is sad, indeed.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
I love LIQUIDITY and would hope that I'd own her forever. The prospect that I might one day sell her is sad, indeed.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: Jim, thanks for the great thread
Jim,
Thanks for asking such a good question. It's great to generate so much interest, get everyone thinking, and sharing their opinions.
I really enjoyed this thread.
Cathy M.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
Thanks for asking such a good question. It's great to generate so much interest, get everyone thinking, and sharing their opinions.
I really enjoyed this thread.
Cathy M.
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Olli Wendelin
Re: whats it worth?
Another aspect is what can you insure her for. Underwriters look at blue book values and surveyors reports. It is easy to add more bells and whistles to an older hull than insurance will cover. Having a custom boat without a blue book listing will help. Then the underwriter will rely heavily on the surveyors report and valuation.
Also, a bank lends money based on these same valuations. Asking price, selling price, and "value" to the owner make no difference.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
Also, a bank lends money based on these same valuations. Asking price, selling price, and "value" to the owner make no difference.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
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Jim Ehrenfried
Re: whats it worth?
This is a great discussion, relevent since I am starting to look around to upgrade from my Typhoon to one of her bigger siblings!jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
I've looked at 25's, 27's, 28's, 30's all from 1974-1985. Between the difference in years, equipment, condition, location, features, book value, insurance value,asking price, commission percent...My head is spinning!!
This is more complex than buying a home, because the market for homes is much larger, and selling prices (in MA)and valuation techniques are public information, which makes it relatively easy to peg the price. This is also not a calculated transaction like stock trading. I've never enjoyed a "Kodak moment" with my family and friends while online trading. Without getting fleeced, this is an emotional and hopefully fun and exciting process-we LOVE our Cape Dorys!
After all of this, I'm going to go back to the drawing board, decide what our minimum core needs are in a boat, how much we can afford to spend, what a REASONABLE range to pay is, and go find a boat that stirs my heart-just the way we found our Ty.
The most important thing is how much that boat is worth to YOU. If you really love that boat, it's in a reasonable range, and you can afford it, you'll never look back with any regrets.
Good Luck,
Jim Ehrenfried
Ty 272
"Slipknot"
jfreeds@msn.com
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Ken Coit
Re: whats it worth?
Speaking from personal experience, there are several things to consider when you analyze your next Cape Dory purchase. Perhaps the most important aspect is the attitude of your significant other. Mine, who has been boating with me for 15+ years, and who has just purchased "Dragged Aboard" by Don Casey, was most helpful. After dragging her through many a boat yard, marina, and harbor, and after I had searched from New Hampshire to California for CD-25Ds, CD-30Bs, and CD-36s, my most significant other said. "You'd better buy the boat you want now because we are not going through this again." With that encouragement, the length of my ideal boat stretched from 25 ft. to 36 ft., the price tripled, the displacement tripled, and the joy was magnified by some large amount. It became much easier to part with the money once I knew Shelley understood the passion that tears at some of us.
Much pondering and procrastinating paid off for us, thanks to Shelley.
Ken Coit
S/C Parfait
CD-36 #084
Raleigh, NC
ken-shelley.coit@worldnet.att.net
Much pondering and procrastinating paid off for us, thanks to Shelley.
Ken Coit
S/C Parfait
CD-36 #084
Raleigh, NC
jim heavin wrote: I am looking at a 30' sloop, it was advertised as a cape dory but was actually built as a custom order by robinhood marine in mid 1991 and actually has a plague showing it as a robinhood 30s. So, is it a cape dory or a robinhood? As far as I can determine by talking with robinhood this is the only one they built. Boat is in very good condition,fresh water, always stored inside and with a very good equipment list.Any opinions on what it should be worth.
ken-shelley.coit@worldnet.att.net