Cape Dory 25 Newbie requests your wisdom

[1980CapeDory25]

I just bought a 1980 Cape Dory 25. I’m in the Chesapeake Bay but that CD Group seems to be inactive as several of my emails have gone unresponded to.
1.What size should my running rigging be? 1/4, 5/8?
2.What are the sail-plan sizes and what sizes should storm / tri-sail be? Can I rig a second fore-stay (either an inner or parallel)? …trying to solve the reefing or depowering problem for a single hand.
3.What are the sizes of the little steel pins for the many side stays?
4.How do I properly take down the mast?
5.What are the proper tensions on the rigging?
6.Are the cabin wood frame bulkheads structural or convenience? Can I redesign interior bulkheads? I need to enlarge V-Berth.
7.Thinking about battery operated bilge pump. Thoughts?
8.Thinking about getting rid of sink, icebox, fresh water can in V-Berth. Don’t need sink but need more counter space for NAv. Don’t need icebox. Need space to slide and hold cooler. Don’t need fresh water. Will carry plastic bottles and need sail and anchor chain stowage. Thoughts?
9.I need to improve the reefing system (main and jib) for single handing. Thoughts? I was at the tiller last week and got knocked down in high winds that came on…couldn’t leave tiller. Scared the hell out of me. I need a solution. Thoughts?
Advice on …well, everything.
10.Also, advice on self-steering with sheets and bungee chords. [/list]Trying to stay low tech for reliability reasons.
Thanks for your consideration.
Semper Fi,
Tom

[pete faga]

Welcome Tom
Lots of questions can be answered by going to the info tab on the homepage or using the search section
Running rigging I believe is 3/8
Rigging tension should be available on the info page under cd25 manual
I am sure more cd 25 owners will answer some more of your questions
Enjoy your boat
Pete

[riveredge]

Deck stepped mast requires bulkheads below. You might be able to move them but I don't think you can get rid of them. And I'd be very careful.

Because the mast is hinged it can be taken down manually. The guy that sold me my CD25 muscled the mast up for me with the help of his father. I never tried that. But I built a wooden crutch that went 8' above the stern deck clamped to the stern pulpit. A plywood v at the top enabled me to both step and unstep the mast single handed.

I set up a jiffy reefing system similar to the single line system at the following link:

http://www3.telus.net/sail/sj23/f_rigging_tips/f05.html

Instead of a block on the mast I put the forward one on the boom as well.

Good luck and have fun!

[riveredge]

I know you want to go low tech but Autohelm 2000 is a CD25 single handers best friend.

[Terry]

Hey. I, too, sail a CD25. Cassandra. The answer to some of your questions may depend upon the type of sailing you're planning. Also, a word of advice: make lots of plans and check the prices at various places, but don't buy until you've had some adventures or misadventures. You'll know more of what you want/need then. I'm the fourth owner of Cassandra. She's been exclusively on the lake. Her sails were original, though rigging was upgraded for cruising. One of the previous owners planned a couple long ocean adventures but didn't end up going.

After purchase, I thought I should immediately replace the sails. I gagged at the cost, held off, and they're still sailable. Shapes not as perfect as it should be, but I'm not in a hurry. The depth meter was an old Ray Marine unit that hardly ever worked. I thought I really needed one, so went to a lot of trouble to bond a transducer to the hull, in the cabin, to shoot through the hull. I built a swing-out plexiglass panel in the companion way to see it from the cockpit. I added a Garmin gpsmap 76 cpx to the panel. I don't even use the depth meter now, and rarely the gps. While the lake's big, it's not like I can get too lost. LOL.

One thing I did determine, though, is that a reliable iron ginny is essential. After four years of struggling with an old Evenrude, I upgraded to a Tohatsu Sailpro. Not cheap. But totally wonderful. Now if I'd only had the alternator wired to the batteries I'd not have been forced to come in one gorgeous night that I headed out for an evening sail under a full moon. The solar panel let me down and hadn't been charging the batteries adequately. The batteries didn't last more than an hour, and I ended up holding a light up to the sail to "limp" back to the marina to the tune of "Hey, turn your lights on," sung by power boaters roaring through a no-wake zone.

1. I believe Cassandra has 12mm running rigging (half inch), which was an upgrade.

2. If you're planning on bay sailing only, it seems to me you'd be watching weather and such and probably not require a storm sail ( if you have a furler). If not, sure, and change it out early. I have a furler and 150% genoa. I have a hank-on storm sail but to actually deploy it would require a second stay, which is possible. Don't see how a try-sail would be needed, though. But I plan on one at some point, as I plan to drop Cassandra in salt water.

3. Shrouds. Don't know size.

4. There are some You Tube videos that show using two posts in a v configuration to support mast as it is lowered using the forward stay, a block, and a winch.

5. Check the manual on this site for rigging tension. It's well documented.

6. The bulkheads are structural, to the best of my knowledge. They support the mast. I'm 6'5" and don't fit in the vee birth. It's great for storage, though. Sleeping is accomplished only on the starboard bunk--it's longer than the port-side bunk.

7. Bilge pumps. I have one manually operated from cockpit and a DC pump in bilge that must be switched on and off, as it doesn't have an water-level sensor. I intend to install a second one in the bilge at some point.

8. I pulled out the sink. I don't like the way it's mounted and the hose on the bottom makes the birth unusable if I actually have a guest that may sleep aboard. My plan is to use a bucket that doubles for the stove housing and sink--no outlet, just dump it overboard. The stove plan is for it to gimble from the top of the bucket. Remove when I want to wash dishes. Originally I was going to put the "galley" on the starboard side, and the ham radios/marine radios beneath the power panel. I'm thinking now that I will not do that, but keep the largest table area for the comm gear. I currently have bottles of water in the icebox--don't need icebox, like you. I've thought of removing it, too. It would make a larger storage space available. The forward ten gallon water tank hasn't been used in probably forever. It's too small for a long weekend anyway. I'd like to pull it out and replace it with a bladder, about thirty or so gallons.

9. For me, the furling jib works very well. Sail shape's a compromise, sure. The CD25s roller-reefing main is silly, at best. On Cassandra, it's also unusable, as she has a boom vang. One Of These Days, I'll add reefing points on existing main. A few times when the wind's uncomfortably gusty, I've dropped the main and partially furled the jib, and sailed on.

10. There's a lot of information on the web, both drawings and videos of self-steering with surgical rubber, blocks, using the boom to correct. Here's a link: http://www.jsward.com/steering/

You mentioned anchor storage. I have an oversized anchor suspended from the bow pulpit. It's convenient. I only use the rode locker for chain, preferring to keep fifty feet of 3/8th inch twisted nylon in a nylon bag in a locker. When I want it, I haul it to the bow, make the connections, and drop the anchor.

Enjoy our Cape Dory.

[Neil Gordon]

>>Thinking about getting rid of sink, icebox, fresh water can in V-Berth.<<

Just ponder what making your boat "non-standard" might do in terms of resale.

>>I need to improve the reefing system (main and jib) for single handing... I was at the tiller last week and got knocked down in high winds that came on…couldn’t leave tiller.

Practice heaving to... backing the jib, adjusting the main, and lashing the tiller. The boat should settle right down and allow you to do whatever.

Jiffy reefing isn't hard to set up, but if you're hove to, you can live without it... have suitable lengths of line readily available to secure the tack and clew, and just take your time.

>>Also, advice on self-steering with sheets and bungee chords.<<

Joe Myerson experimented extensively on his 25D. Maybe he can give you some pointers.

[Neil Gordon]

>> The forward ten gallon water tank hasn't been used in probably forever. It's too small for a long weekend anyway.<<

So for three days, with two on board, ten gallons gives you more than a gallon and a half per day. That's not enough for drinking, cooking and some basic hygiene? Ten gallons sounds like enough for about a week (without showers).

[1980CapeDory25]

Thank you, everybody for the words of wisdom for the Newbie. I appreciate it.
Goal is to set off on circumnavigation before age 65. I think that's a good round number. It gives me 3 years from now.
The Cape Dory 25 is training wheels. Plan on driving it hard...in Chesapeake Bay to start with. Just learning how to sail. Sailed a 36 Hunter from St. Croix to N.C. a few months ago. 15 days at sea in some heavy wx. An education.
Sink, V-Berth, icebox, 10 gallon water tank, PortaPotti, all meant for munchkins. I hope it doesn't affect resale value too much but those changes seem like common sense and necessary.
I was going to try to modify the most forward bulkhead so as to allow more leg room. I get that that bulkhead provides strength for mast. Wondering if a cut out for legs could be accomplished without weakening bullhead vertical strength? Would rig a board to then slot over portaPotti and mid level hanger locker so that my legs could occupy the additional 18 inches of created space.?

I notice two reef positions for main. Do I need to rig a second single line reefing system, in addition to the first reefing line, for the second reef?

My forward stay is NOT furled. Hank on. How can I reef from cockpit? Can I rig an inner or a second stay for pre-rigged stormsail? Then I could just have a jib downhaul rigged to cockpit.

10 days ago, I was stuck at the tiller as the winds got worse and worse. I knew I had to de-power but couldn't leave tiller. It was a dilemma. waves got pretty big. Single handing in all wx is the challenge.

Gotta take down the mast to check all the fittings, etc. I'll check out the YouTubes you suggest.

Thank you all. T

[1980CapeDory25]

PS. That heaving to idea seems like a great idea. I didn't think of it while in the stuff.
Next time I'll be prepared to lash down the tiller and heave to. I'll practice it.
Thanks again. T

[Terry]

>> The forward ten gallon water tank hasn't been used in probably forever. It's too small for a long weekend anyway.<<

So for three days, with two on board, ten gallons gives you more than a gallon and a half per day. That's not enough for drinking, cooking and some basic hygiene? Ten gallons sounds like enough for about a week (without showers).

You have a point, Neil. In the back of my mind is that the tank and lines are really cruddy, and don't seem worth the work to replace for only ten gallons, which would have to be filled from a nasty-looking hose anyway. I have water containers, refilled with filtered water from my house, that I carry.

All the best.

[Terry]

I was going to try to modify the most forward bulkhead so as to allow more leg room. I get that that bulkhead provides strength for mast. Wondering if a cut out for legs. . .

Might work, Tom. I gave some thought once to adding a hinged drop board and just sleep in the middle. But after climbing in and out of that cubby hole a few times, I didn't take it any further.

Circumnavigation. Cool. I've dreamed of it myself. . .

All the best.

[jbenagh]

For the jib, I installed a Gerr down haul. It allowed me to get the Genoa on deck from the cockpit after which I hove to and dealt with the main. Then I could host a working jib. Here is the write up I did a few years back http://jbenagh.com/GerrDownhaul.html

[Joe Myerson]

You've got a great little boat there, Newbie. And, you will find that there is an active CDSOA chapter on the Chesapeake.

As for Neil's comments:
First: Heaving to is the most useful skill you can develop. Practice it a few times and you'll find that it will help with reefing, ducking below to grab items in the cabin or even catching a little lunch.

Second: Sheet-to-tiller self-steering: As Neil says, I spent a lot of time playing around with lines and pulleys. I was able to get the system to work, sort-of, when sailing up-wind, however, if your sails are well-balanced and perfectly set, you can probably sail as well up-wind by securing your tiller alone. Best bet: get a basic tiller pilot and you can even use it to hold your tiller without turning it on. Otherwise, it works best when under power.

Best of luck and welcome aboard!

--Joe

[mgphl52]

For the jib, I installed a Gerr down haul. It allowed me to get the Genoa on deck from the cockpit after which I hove to and dealt with the main. Then I could host a working jib. Here is the write up I did a few years back http://jbenagh.com/GerrDownhaul.html

I couldn't quite figure out what was going on here... until I found the sketch on this page: http://www.widgetsailor.com/myboat/downhaul/

[Dick Kobayashi]

Welcome.

You have received good advice. The bay can be really tough when those thunder storms come up and you can have a lot of time with "dead" air. What do the scouts say " Be Prepared"

Two significant out of pocket improvements are 1) tiller pilot and 2) reliable roller furling. Your sail plan is modest so maybe a single set of reef points that take down 40% of the sail area will be ok. Forget roller reefing - useless. These two investments plus making sure your motor power is uber reliable will enable you to enjoy your boat and grow in confidence.

The other thing is learning how to heave to - each boat balances in a different way - and that way changes depending on how much sail is up and on conditions. By trial and error you need to figure out how to heave to in your boat. It is what we all have done.

I think you will have a lot of fun - just avoid the risk of getting too many gizmos that look neat and mostly add clutter and adversely affect cash flow.

I did buy a tp and furler in 2001 as soon as I got the boat and I use them still. I also bought the cheapest hand held gps and learned to reef and heave to. gps still works too.

Have a great time and use the board index/search feature - almost everything has been thoroughly masticated.

Oh - one more thing. Even if you dont heave to - if you sheet in the main and head sail and let go of the tiller - the boat pretty much heads into the wind - mot as good as heaving to - but can provide a short respite during which you can leave the tiller.