Just a few more weeks of sailing here in Brooklyn, NY, and I’m already considering some winter work. Last year I focused on the interior; this winter I’ll tackle some exterior work. I hesitate to bring up the T word but I’d like to get to the bottom of the discussion and despite lots of searching, i'm still a little unclear on the methods. What is clear is that almost every post online starts with: "there are as many opinions on teak as there are...."
My exterior teak is in not great shape. PO didn’t touch it for years. ON the plus side, it has no existing varnish, etc. On the minus, it is dry, gray, groovy, and in need of some serious help.
The questions:
Varnish:
No question here. I just don’t think I have it in me
Cetol:
I’m not really sure what Cetol is. Is it a stain? If so, why would I want to stain this beautiful teak? Is it a sealer? If so, why does it need a clear coat on top? And if the Cetol clear coat is as great as people seem to think it is, why don’t people just use that without the stain? Also, is there a version of this product that does not look orange? I heard that there is.
Teak Oil:
My inner chi thinks I’d prefer this option. My outer reality (New York City air) has me concerned that my teak will turn black shortly after application.
And last: one of my cockpit coamings is split; from the jib cleat aft about mid-way up the coaming (the split follows, logically, the ridge more or less where the fiberglass ends). At this point it is not a hazard, but it is a bummer and I want to fix it. Any thoughts? I’d try epoxy but I’m just not convince that will be a strong enough joint given that it would be the only thing supporting the top of the coaming.
Thanks!
Adam
T - Eak!
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Sea Hunt Video
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Re: T - Eak!
Adam:
When I was caretaker for S/V Tadpole, my 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender, I used Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It did very well under 24/7/365 Florida sun.
Two (2) years ago, as caretaker of S/V Bali Ha'i, my 1982 Cape Dory 25D, I scraped and removed all prior varnish, etc. from the teak. I then applied Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It still looks beautiful under 24/7/365 Florida sun.
I know what you mean by the "orange" color. That may be true of other Cetol products. It is not true of Cetol Marine Natural Teak. It really looks very nice. Many (not all) who see it think it is a top end varnish. Sometimes, not always, I "confess" it is Cetol.
The Cetol Marine Natural Teak and Clear Gloss are very easy to apply (if I can do anyone can do it) with only a sponge/foam brush. Be sure to use a quality foam brush. They are "throw aways" after each use. Jen Mfg. makes good foam brushes. http://www.jenmfg.com/
When I was caretaker for S/V Tadpole, my 1977 Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender, I used Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It did very well under 24/7/365 Florida sun.
Two (2) years ago, as caretaker of S/V Bali Ha'i, my 1982 Cape Dory 25D, I scraped and removed all prior varnish, etc. from the teak. I then applied Cetol Marine Natural Teak (3 coats) and Cetol Clear Gloss (2 coats). It still looks beautiful under 24/7/365 Florida sun.
I know what you mean by the "orange" color. That may be true of other Cetol products. It is not true of Cetol Marine Natural Teak. It really looks very nice. Many (not all) who see it think it is a top end varnish. Sometimes, not always, I "confess" it is Cetol.
The Cetol Marine Natural Teak and Clear Gloss are very easy to apply (if I can do anyone can do it) with only a sponge/foam brush. Be sure to use a quality foam brush. They are "throw aways" after each use. Jen Mfg. makes good foam brushes. http://www.jenmfg.com/
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Re: T - Eak!
RE: The 'CRACK'
Same problem 10 years ago....... after some thought and time spent in the 'Dory Archives...... I decided to use WestMarine products mixed w/sawdust from said sideboards sanded...... thickened the WestMarine w/same sawdust, shot it into the crack w/syringes (probably a WM product) and clamped it shut w/a number of bar clamps.
Results? A strong joint that I don't really have a problem leaning on (granted, it is a bit too far aft for single-handed people) , but guests have never queried the "almost invisible" joint's effectiveness.
Give it a try. If it doesn't work, Barfwinkle and others have the alternative fix--- new teak cut to shape after prying it off the cockpit coaming sides.
Same problem 10 years ago....... after some thought and time spent in the 'Dory Archives...... I decided to use WestMarine products mixed w/sawdust from said sideboards sanded...... thickened the WestMarine w/same sawdust, shot it into the crack w/syringes (probably a WM product) and clamped it shut w/a number of bar clamps.
Results? A strong joint that I don't really have a problem leaning on (granted, it is a bit too far aft for single-handed people) , but guests have never queried the "almost invisible" joint's effectiveness.
Give it a try. If it doesn't work, Barfwinkle and others have the alternative fix--- new teak cut to shape after prying it off the cockpit coaming sides.
Re: T - Eak!
I agree with Roberto on this.
I used three coats of Cetol Marine Light with two coats of Gloss as per their instructions. I did all my teak in 2013. This is my bowsprit before and after.
I used three coats of Cetol Marine Light with two coats of Gloss as per their instructions. I did all my teak in 2013. This is my bowsprit before and after.
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Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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bottomscraper
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:08
- Location: Previous Owner of CD36 Mahalo #163 1990
- Contact:
Re: T - Eak!
With Cetol you have your choice of 3 base coats. The darkest is "Cetol Marine", the lightest "Cetol Marine Natural Teak" and in the middle "Cetol Marine Light". It's your choice how dark you want it, the darker color covers more defects. All have some pigment but will allow the grain to show.
No mater which base coat you choose you will want to cover it with "Cetol Marine Gloss". You should expect to give all your teak a fresh coat of gloss every year. You will probably need to fix some spots with base coat each year also.
No finish is perfect but we have found Cetol to be the best compromise of good looks and reduced labor. You can't beat the looks of a good varnish job but life is short! The older Cetol from 15 years ago was not nearly as good looking as the current generation.
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecen ... -guide.pdf
No mater which base coat you choose you will want to cover it with "Cetol Marine Gloss". You should expect to give all your teak a fresh coat of gloss every year. You will probably need to fix some spots with base coat each year also.
No finish is perfect but we have found Cetol to be the best compromise of good looks and reduced labor. You can't beat the looks of a good varnish job but life is short! The older Cetol from 15 years ago was not nearly as good looking as the current generation.
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecen ... -guide.pdf
Rich Abato
Nordic Tug 34 Tanuki
Previous Owner Of CD36 Mahalo #163
Southern Maine
http://www.sailmahalo.com
Nordic Tug 34 Tanuki
Previous Owner Of CD36 Mahalo #163
Southern Maine
http://www.sailmahalo.com
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John Stone
- Posts: 3624
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: T - Eak!
Adam,
I can't tell you much about cetol. I used it on my J-24 once and swore I'd never do it again. I didn't like it. It looked orange and unnatural. I cringed every time I saw it. However, I think they have made a lot of improvements since then. As others have stated, there seems to be more color options now. Practical Sailor did a review on teak coatings in the last year or two and I thought they provided a lot of information regarding a wide variety of products (some I had never heard of) to include cetol, honey teak, spar varnishes, two part varnishes etc, etc. It seemed to me like there were a lot of options to choose from. PS usually does a pretty good job of laying out the pros and cons for various products.
Since my J24 days, I have left teak bare or varnished it. One or the other. Often side by side--its a nice contrast when done that way. Leaving teak bare, however, does not mean there is no maintenance required. Otherwise it can turn black and grimy, depending on what is in the air. Many folks know the best thing you can do for teak is wash it down with clean seawater. But, that is hard to come by in many of our coastal areas. I wash the bare teak on my boat when I wash the boat. I scrub (maybe rub is a better word) the teak with a thick wash cloth and some soapy water. I don't use a scrub brush on it. I rinse it off. It does turn grey but it is a very clean looking grey and the grain stays tight if you don't scrub it with bristle brush. It's an option to consider. Very little maintenance required and you will never have to use a heat gun to strip off the coatings.
Normally, I don't think I would varnish a toerail. It gets too much abuse. And, varnish is not that tough anyway. It is going to get damaged and then it is an uphill maintenance battle.
I would try leaving it bare and washing it with soap and water with a wash cloth and see how you like it.
Can you post a picture of your coaming? There are probably a couple of options.
I can't tell you much about cetol. I used it on my J-24 once and swore I'd never do it again. I didn't like it. It looked orange and unnatural. I cringed every time I saw it. However, I think they have made a lot of improvements since then. As others have stated, there seems to be more color options now. Practical Sailor did a review on teak coatings in the last year or two and I thought they provided a lot of information regarding a wide variety of products (some I had never heard of) to include cetol, honey teak, spar varnishes, two part varnishes etc, etc. It seemed to me like there were a lot of options to choose from. PS usually does a pretty good job of laying out the pros and cons for various products.
Since my J24 days, I have left teak bare or varnished it. One or the other. Often side by side--its a nice contrast when done that way. Leaving teak bare, however, does not mean there is no maintenance required. Otherwise it can turn black and grimy, depending on what is in the air. Many folks know the best thing you can do for teak is wash it down with clean seawater. But, that is hard to come by in many of our coastal areas. I wash the bare teak on my boat when I wash the boat. I scrub (maybe rub is a better word) the teak with a thick wash cloth and some soapy water. I don't use a scrub brush on it. I rinse it off. It does turn grey but it is a very clean looking grey and the grain stays tight if you don't scrub it with bristle brush. It's an option to consider. Very little maintenance required and you will never have to use a heat gun to strip off the coatings.
Normally, I don't think I would varnish a toerail. It gets too much abuse. And, varnish is not that tough anyway. It is going to get damaged and then it is an uphill maintenance battle.
I would try leaving it bare and washing it with soap and water with a wash cloth and see how you like it.
Can you post a picture of your coaming? There are probably a couple of options.
Re: T - Eak!
I finally got two coats of Cetol gloss over Cetol Marine Light on the handrails, dorade boxes and coamings this past weekend. I did the toe rails last year in Signature finish Honey Teak and with one maintenance coat this year, those look pretty good, a little darker than the Cetol but hard as nails. I got some compliments back at the dock on the new Cetol with the gloss and I must admit to being pretty pleased with the result after being a ten coats of Clipper Clear (Goldspar) guy back when we retired our Typhoon. I didn't read the directions for the gloss though till I bloody well put it away and put a second coat on the same day when I should have waited 24 hours. This made it pretty soft all the way through the next day. We'll see how it goes.
So now, despite my best planning to keep it simple, I have four different finishes aboard Femme, the Honey Teak, the Cetol, ten coats of Goldspar on the hatch boards and teak oil on the cockpit grate. Oi vey!
Here is a shot from last weekend of the Cetol gloss over Cetol Light on the coamings. You can just see the Honey Teak toe rail aft and the oiled cockpit grate. The grate is due for a second maintenance coat of oil this season, which would only take a few minutes but of course I didn't get to it.
p.s. I forgot the lemon oil for the interior teak. Looks and smells great, less mildew. That makes for five!
So now, despite my best planning to keep it simple, I have four different finishes aboard Femme, the Honey Teak, the Cetol, ten coats of Goldspar on the hatch boards and teak oil on the cockpit grate. Oi vey!
Here is a shot from last weekend of the Cetol gloss over Cetol Light on the coamings. You can just see the Honey Teak toe rail aft and the oiled cockpit grate. The grate is due for a second maintenance coat of oil this season, which would only take a few minutes but of course I didn't get to it.
p.s. I forgot the lemon oil for the interior teak. Looks and smells great, less mildew. That makes for five!
Paul
CDSOA Member
CDSOA Member
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John Stone
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Re: T - Eak!
Looks great Paul. That's also a nice looking grate. Can you post another picture of it? Did you make it?
Re: T - Eak!
As stated previously I "wooded" all my exterior teak in the fall of 2013 (the perfect time of year for such a project in New England, low humidity, cool temps) and immediately applied three coats of the Cetol Marine Light topped with two coats of the Cetol Marine Gloss. My intention last year was to lightly sand everything and add a light coat of the Marine Gloss. I never got around to it and I didn't feel guilty since it looked perfect.
This year while I was in Bermuda I planned to get the job done but I must have fallen under a spell cast by my surroundings. I had everything I needed with me but I was enjoying my surroundings so much I never made time. Once again I decided to take advantage of our perfect fall weather.
Alas, "the best laid plans of mice and men"......in the first week of September I ended up with a herniated disc....I've been living on muscle relaxers and pain killers since.
Looks like I'll be getting to my brightwork maintainence in the spring
Sikkens says that a light sanding and a light top coat of the Gloss annually will extend the life of the finish for several years. From the look of things so far I believe them.
People make the mistake of not reading the manufacturers application instructions or ignoring them and complain about the results. With Cetol the UV inhibitors are in the Gloss top coat so it's use allows one to get the best results out of the finish.
It's not any fun getting the teak prepped for the application of ones chosen finish, so once you've selected a finish it only makes sense to follow the manufacturers application procedure to the letter.
This year while I was in Bermuda I planned to get the job done but I must have fallen under a spell cast by my surroundings. I had everything I needed with me but I was enjoying my surroundings so much I never made time. Once again I decided to take advantage of our perfect fall weather.
Alas, "the best laid plans of mice and men"......in the first week of September I ended up with a herniated disc....I've been living on muscle relaxers and pain killers since.
Looks like I'll be getting to my brightwork maintainence in the spring
Sikkens says that a light sanding and a light top coat of the Gloss annually will extend the life of the finish for several years. From the look of things so far I believe them.
People make the mistake of not reading the manufacturers application instructions or ignoring them and complain about the results. With Cetol the UV inhibitors are in the Gloss top coat so it's use allows one to get the best results out of the finish.
It's not any fun getting the teak prepped for the application of ones chosen finish, so once you've selected a finish it only makes sense to follow the manufacturers application procedure to the letter.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: T - Eak!
Jim,
I agree with actually reading the instructions! I am hoping when I get to the boat this weekend the finish is not still soft from my blunder. The wise old man at the marina said it should be fine. I guess I've applied so many different types of varnish AND Cetol I didn't think of the re application time. Goes perfectly with the theory of good judgement. Good judgement is the result of experience. Usually the experience of using poor judgement.
I agree with actually reading the instructions! I am hoping when I get to the boat this weekend the finish is not still soft from my blunder. The wise old man at the marina said it should be fine. I guess I've applied so many different types of varnish AND Cetol I didn't think of the re application time. Goes perfectly with the theory of good judgement. Good judgement is the result of experience. Usually the experience of using poor judgement.
Paul
CDSOA Member
CDSOA Member
Re: T - Eak!
I've seen various teak cleaning kits. Seems they usually end with an application of teak oil.
Would you use teak oil before applying Cetol? Or does something like the Cetol Marine Natural Teak take the place of teak oil?
Would you use teak oil before applying Cetol? Or does something like the Cetol Marine Natural Teak take the place of teak oil?
Capt Hook
s/v Kumbaya
Cape Dory 31, Hull No. 73
New Orleans, LA
s/v Kumbaya
Cape Dory 31, Hull No. 73
New Orleans, LA
Re: T - Eak!
Cetol should be applied over bare wood. Any type of oil would inhibit penetration. Here are the application instructions.Capt Hook wrote:I've seen various teak cleaning kits. Seems they usually end with an application of teak oil.
Would you use teak oil before applying Cetol? Or does something like the Cetol Marine Natural Teak take the place of teak oil?
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecen ... -guide.pdf
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: T - Eak!
Thanks, Jim.Jim Walsh wrote:Cetol should be applied over bare wood. Any type of oil would inhibit penetration. Here are the application instructions.Capt Hook wrote:I've seen various teak cleaning kits. Seems they usually end with an application of teak oil.
Would you use teak oil before applying Cetol? Or does something like the Cetol Marine Natural Teak take the place of teak oil?
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecen ... -guide.pdf
Capt Hook
s/v Kumbaya
Cape Dory 31, Hull No. 73
New Orleans, LA
s/v Kumbaya
Cape Dory 31, Hull No. 73
New Orleans, LA
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Astronomertoo
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Nov 24th, '11, 08:53
- Location: 1975 CD25 239 Moon Shine
Re: T - Eak!
-----------------Capt Hook wrote:Thanks, Jim.Jim Walsh wrote:Cetol should be applied over bare wood. Any type of oil would inhibit penetration. Here are the application instructions.Capt Hook wrote:I've seen various teak cleaning kits. Seems they usually end with an application of teak oil.
Would you use teak oil before applying Cetol? Or does something like the Cetol Marine Natural Teak take the place of teak oil?
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecen ... -guide.pdf
Good advice,
And I too will keep it in mind when I get around to reworking the teak on my old CD25. I used to use Deks Olje thin (1) and thicker (2) on all my older boats, but I am anxious to try out the newer Cetol products as described, for the first time. I will want the same nice traditional natural color as is on Jim's boat, and will stay away from unnatural colors there and on the deck.
Note to Jim: Sorry to hear about your bum disc issue. I would hope you have a schedule to get it repaired, AND I will bet you are happier than a frog in a pond that you were not on your trip to Bermuda when it happened.
Best wishes to all.
Bob C
BobC
Citrus Springs, Florida
Citrus Springs, Florida
Re: T - Eak!
Well this has been by far my most successful thread. Teak...who knew? I should quit while I'm ahead.
So I still haven't been able to figure out how to post a photo but as one looking at the color/finish chart for Cetol, it appears that the lightest and least orange option is just plain Natural. Both the Natural Light and the Teak options have an a bit o the orange tint in them, while natural looks more blond. Has anyone tried that color?
Also, I'm more of a satin finish person. Has anyone tried the satin finish coat?
Jim W, your bowsprit looks fantastic. Both the before and after look much darker/richer than the sanded teak on my boat.
So I still haven't been able to figure out how to post a photo but as one looking at the color/finish chart for Cetol, it appears that the lightest and least orange option is just plain Natural. Both the Natural Light and the Teak options have an a bit o the orange tint in them, while natural looks more blond. Has anyone tried that color?
Also, I'm more of a satin finish person. Has anyone tried the satin finish coat?
Jim W, your bowsprit looks fantastic. Both the before and after look much darker/richer than the sanded teak on my boat.