Moving Up

[guy leslie]

Hi To All,
Guess I have the bug to move up. I really love my CD 28 but a 31 seems to be calling. I know there are several 31 owners out there, so if you'd be so kind to recommend things to look for, that would be helpful as I'm soon to visit one. Are there any specific problem spots to look for or something that usually comes up in these boats?
Also, other than the BUC book or NADA, how do I price my current boat?
Many thanks,

Guy

[Neil Gordon]

... how do I price my current boat?

I'm not sure there are enough meaningful transactions for NADA to come up with a good price. I just did a search there and came up with low teens pricing. I think a CD28 in average condition is worth considerably more than that in a transaction between a patient seller and a motivated buyer.

Best might be to poke around here and elsewhere where you can find CD28s listed for sale. Compare age, condition, etc., etc., to those offerings and price accordingly.

[guy leslie]

Thanks Neil, good advice as always!

Guy

[Sea Hunt Video]

To follow-up on Neil's suggestion, here is the Yachtworld website for seven (7) Cape Dory 28 sailboats for sale:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... elected=-1

There is a wide range of pricing. I am guessing this has to do with age, hull condition, sail inventory and condition, engine condition, etc.

There are several other websites from which you can get an idea of pricing. BoatTrader.com; Sailboat Listings.com; Boats.com; etc.

[Carl Thunberg]

The CD31 is my dream boat. I think Cape Dory got the interior layout just about perfect with the CD31, and she sails like a dream! I had the good fortune to crew for a friend of mine on his CD31 to Nova Scotia a few years ago. Since I was crew and not the owner, I don't have a good list of things to watch for. I'll leave that to others, but I wanted to affirm your choice.

[Jim Walsh]

Are there any specific problem spots to look for or something that usually comes up in these boats?

At this point in their lives you are dealing with age related issues. I know of no manufacturing defects. Here is a partial list of items I have addressed since I purchased ORION in December of 2006.
1. Engine replaced with a Universal M-25XPB
2. Dripless shaft seal added
3. Fuel tank replaced. (It was 26 years old and had developed pin hole sized leaks)
4. Standing rigging replaced. (Did it myself with Sta-Lok fittings)
5. All new electronics and radar
6. Autopilot
7. Running rigging replaced. (Did it myself, we all need to know how to splice)
8. All new main sheet blocks and headsail lead cars
9. New interior lighting fixtures
10. New suit of sails
11. New Monitor self steering
12. New self tailing primary winches
Some of these things are extravagances, some are just nice to have, and some are necessary maintenance. If the vessels you look at show no clear evidence of recent and continuous maintenance and upgrading then you are going to have to make up for it in sweat equity and dollars and cents. If you pay for a survey just be aware that they all come with fine print which essentially is a hold harmless agreement so they are never (never say never) held responsible for their errors and omissions. Engines should be inspected by a trusted professional unless you intend to immediately replace them (which was the case with me). Masts should likewise be inspected by a trusted professional if you don't possess the skill as replacements run into the thousands. You'll want to be certain the hull hasn't suffered any traumatic damage and/or the repairs were done properly.
You want to pay the minimum for a vessel which has been minimally maintained and shows no evidence of recent and continuous upgrades. I suggest you do a little shopping online for those items which you personally feel you could not do without such as a fancy chartplotter, an autoplilot, and radar. If the boat you look at does not possess these things, or they are relics from the Bronze Age, you will have a ballpark figure to add to the selling price to arrive at a true dollar figure for your new toy. That should assist in bringing you back to reality when your heart starts beating rapidly and you are fumbling for your checkbook

[guy leslie]

Thanks Roberto, Carl, & Jim. Good information & advice. Jim-I'm always curious about the need to repower, esp. when diesels potentially can last thousands of hours (so I've heard). I suspect a good surveyor can also verify the engine's overall condition?
I appreciate your thoughts as I know you know your boat very well. Enjoyed your Island pictures from last spring!

Thanks again,

Guy

[Jim Walsh]

Thanks Roberto, Carl, & Jim. Good information & advice. Jim-I'm always curious about the need to repower, esp. when diesels potentially can last thousands of hours

That potential can only be realized with meticulous maintainence. The PO of my boat passed away. His widow and sons failed to ensure the engine was winterized and the boat sat neglected for two New England winters. It was seized. It may have been salvageable but I wouldn't spend the boat units on an aged (22+years at that time) powerplant. I'm happy with my decision but it's another one of those boat "investments" which will never be recouped.
Pretty funny huh? Using the word boat and investments in the same sentence.
If I were boat shopping I would employ a diesel mechanic to assess the engine. Specifically one which is certified by the maker. Boat units will be flying out the window should an undetected major fault slip by a surveyor and you will have little or no recourse. A major purchase price adjustment in your favor is easier to deal with than spending a substantial amount of cash after the purchase due to an undetected mechanical fault.
I'm sure there are lightly used, well maintained boats available. It just takes some detective work and the assistance of the proper professionals to ferret them out.

[JWSutcliffe]

Guy:

I went from a CD30 to 31. While I will never regret the move, let me be the first to remind you that the difference in maintenance and upkeep between a 28 (or 30, since they are so similar) and the 31 is truly daunting. The additional on-board systems and even just the bottom size is amazingly significant. It falls under the old adage about having to pay to play, I guess. On the plus side, my wife absolutely loves the 31, and that is worth the extra effort.

As Jim already pointed out, look for upgrades and maintenance. It will be hard to find a 31 as well fitted out and cared for as Jim's, but even a less well cared for example can be brought back to amazing condition.

[Jim Walsh]

It will be hard to find a 31 as well fitted out and cared for as Jim's

There's still a ton of things I'd like to do.

[David Morton]

Guy, I solicited a lot of opinion when I moved from my 25D to the 31 last year. you might check out this thread:
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32721

Good luck. I doubt you will have any buyer's remorse!

David

[guy leslie]

Thanks Guy's for the additional comments. The more I read the more I hope things work out in this direction. I'll keep you posted-right now I'm just trying to schedule a road trip to see her.

Guy

[joemerchant]

My .02. Talk to a broker about selling your 28 for you and looking for a 31. Have the broker run a "Sold Boats" on both boats to show what the asking and selling price was on those boats sold through brokers over the prior couple of years. You don't have to use the broker to sell your boat, but he can be looking for 31's for you. NADA should do an average of what the sold boats come back with, but I find they seem to always use the lowest price sold as what comes up. That being said, NADA is what most lenders use to determine the loan value.

Sold Boats is part of Yachtworld (the MLS of boats) where brokers list boats for sale. Once they sell, they remove the boat from yachtworld and indicate the selling price. It is not available to the public, but any broker and even a few surveyors will run one for you.

Value also goes way down after the magic number when lenders stop lending. Some 10-15 and others like USAA will go as high as 25 years. Interesting to see the selling prices of boats one year over that magic number drop even though the new one needs lots of work and the one a year older is bristol.

Location, Location, Location. In the Gulf States, you will find cheaper boats, but Bristol in the Gulf is like a fixer in the upper East or Great Lakes since the boats sit in the water and hot sun all year round so it is really difficult to keep them up.

[guy leslie]

Thanks Joe. I've wondered about location and have been under the impression that a fresh water boat would have more value. However, prices out east seem to come up significantly higher than here in the great lakes.

I plan to talk with the local broker soon.

Guy

[Neil Gordon]

I've wondered about location and have been under the impression that a fresh water boat would have more value. However, prices out east seem to come up significantly higher than here in the great lakes.

No pun intended, but liquidity matters. There's a robust Cape Dory market in the Northeast, with relatively large numbers of both buyers and sellers. That makes it much easier to get to a closing.