trailering a 25D

[rtbates]

I'd like to know what vehicle you guys use to pull your 25D and trailer.

I'm looking for a new truck and would rather not go with a 3/4 ton unless a 1/2 just doesn't get the job done with anything left in reserve. I currently use a 97 Ford 3/4 ton..

thanks
randy

[lrak]

I think it depends on your expectations more than anything. I found pulling a CD25 on Triad float-off from MD to NH to be no problem with a "3/8" ton truck (Tacoma). I needed a large gap in traffic to use uphill entrance ramps, but I expected that. As long as I wasn't bringing five linebackers and carrying a dinghy for six in the bed, I'd be fine pulling a CD25D on a well balanced braked trailer with a "1/2" ton.

But... some people will not tow anything bigger than a push mower unless they have a "3/4" ton diesel. If you get the tow package any of the 1/2 tons will put a 25D within your transmission warranty weight limit. What does your personality say?

[Klem]

There are certainly some half tons that could safely haul this load. I have not actually towed a 25D but I have towed many other similar sized loads including some sailboats. The 25D is rated at just over 5000lbs displacement so with a trailer it should be in the neighborhood of 7500lbs. The tow capacity of a truck depends on many factors beyond whether it is a half ton or 3/4 ton such as 4X4 vs 4X2, cab configuration, bed configuration, engine, transmission. Unfortunately, manufacturer's tow ratings are not all equal but they are a good start. There are now SAE ratings available which are significantly better and fairer than the old manufacturer ratings but most manufacturers have not adopted them. Toyota has been using them for several years and chevy recently published them before retracting them when ford refused to publish them.

I would strongly recommend against ever towing overweight. Not only is it dangerous, it is illegal and if anything ever happens, you will be held entirely responsible for the outcome and are unlikely to get help from insurance. There are many people who tow way overweight and I have done it off public roads many times but it is simply a bad idea.

Towing a sailboat does present some differences from towing something like a travel trailer. First of all, the center of gravity tends to be significantly higher off the road which means that you need to be careful in turns. Next, many trailers have less tongue weight in my experience so you need to be careful about sway and keeping the rear wheels planted. The windage is different, especially when towing in a cross wind. Also, the trailers feel less stiff to me often and you can feel them flexing and bouncing the rear end of your truck. All this being said, as long as you are aware of all these additional factors, I still feel that the weight rating of the truck is probably the best metric to go by.

I someday hope to find a used trailer for my 30.

[barfwinkle]

Randy I have pulled Rhapsody with both a 1/2 and 3/4 ton. I pulled her from Canyon Lake to her home port and back and forth to the house a time or two with a half ton. I have pulled her in excess of 5000 miles with a 3/4 ton dodge diesel. I'll grant you a 1/2 ton will do the job if I was just hauling her from the lake to the house (25 miles one way and no hills). I guess (to me at least) the main question is how often and how far? There is no way I would take off to Chesapeake Bay and haul her over the Blue Ridge Mountains without a 3/4 ton and to that I would most likely add a diesel at that. I guess I should add my truck is a 2004 and perhaps technology has changed but even at that I don't think I would use a 1/2 ton two wheel drive.

I am no expert, but going over the Blue Ridge Mountains, my truck maintained 60 mph running on cruise control and on the downhill side the transmission never failed to keep the "rig" at 60ish mph and I got 14 mpg over the 2400 miles. I don't think a gasoline engine will even come close to that. When I pulled her home I used a Ford F150 with a tow package and a big V-8 and got maybe 8 or 9 mpg. As I am sure you are aware, a 25D (loaded by the way) on a trailer with a dinghy dwarfs a 4 door dodge 3/4 ton truck. It is no easy task and having used both trucks, I would not consider towing any significant distance (again) without a 3/4 ton. The only reason I didn't get a duelly was the purchase price and the maintenance associated with having six wheels/tires. Tires from my truck (granted they're 10 ply Michelins) are damn expensive, but worth every penny for the piece of mind and I get nearly 100,000 miles wear. The truck has 160K on it now and I am still on the second set of tires.

So just to say it one more time, it depends on the distance and frequency of the haul IMHO.

Fair Winds and good luck.

(BTW I NEVER thought I would like a dodge truck, and the parts to repair it are damn expensive and one think I didn't think about at the time, it takes eleven quarts of oil not four and it takes fuel additive but I LOVE my truck).

[rtbates]

Thanks guys...

I'll most likely be getting a 3/4 ton diesel for the job...The trailer I have is a huge gooseneck that weighs a tad over 2k lbs!

barfwinkle: How do you like the dodge DIESEL??

[barfwinkle]

Randy I love my '04, but you need to remember when things break, they are expensive. I.E.

returning from the annual meting in Fairhope, AL (Nov) I got bad diesel in Louisiana and it cost me $1200 to fix the problem. throttle position sensor went out, the part was $605.

Even at that, I love my Dodge (NEVER EVER THOUGHT I'D SAY THAT). The F150 I used was my dads and I hated that truck.

Good luck.

[Klem]

Thanks guys...

I'll most likely be getting a 3/4 ton diesel for the job...The trailer I have is a huge gooseneck that weighs a tad over 2k lbs!

barfwinkle: How do you like the dodge DIESEL??

I realize that this question was not directed at me but as an owner of several diesel trucks and having plowed commercially with many others, I thought that I would chime in. For full disclosure, my current daily driver is a '96 Ram 2500 diesel with 260,000 miles and I am toying with the idea of going to a 3rd gen but I have experience with everything but the 4th gens.

Dodge is on their "4th" generation of diesel trucks at this point. Gen 1 was 89-93 and these trucks were very tough but not particularly comfortable. The biggest thing to watch on the 1st gens was the transmissions, the sticks were okay but the autos were not great. The 2nd generation was 94-2002 and actually included 2 different configuration of the engine, one with a 12V head and a mechanical injection pump and one with a 24V head and an electronic injection pump. The 98.5-'02 trucks with the electronic injection pump had some issues with the lift pump failing and taking out the injection pump. On both versions, the manual transmissions were pretty good and the autos were not but there are lots of really good aftermarket autos available. From 2003-2007, the engines went commonrail which was great for driveability and the reliability was pretty good but injector replacement is kind of pricey if needed. The biggest difference to me was that the cabs got a lot nicer and everything feels more refined. In 2007.5, they changed to a 6.7L (still cummins) which overall has done quite well on reliability. The biggest complaints seem to be around fuel economy which is a few mpg below the previous trucks. In 2013, Dodge is going to change their emissions system a bit which should result in better fuel economy again. So, since there are so many Dodge diesels, it is a bit hard to make general statements about them. If you decide to look more at one, there is tons of information available on them on forums and a few of us here should be able to help you as there are many little details such as the KDP, changing to disc rear brakes in '97, etc that might help you with exactly what you want.

Overall, I would say that they are great workhorses. Having worked on many different brands of trucks, I feel that they are no more expensive than any other 3/4 ton diesel and significantly cheaper than some years of their competitors. One of the great things is that you can buy engine parts from Cummins. While I have probably only spent $50 ever on engine parts for one of these, it was in the middle of the night with a trailer on the side of the highway and I had the part 10 minutes after calling Cummins. The Cummins engines have always been one of the easiest engines to work on and they are very reliable, there is a reason why the 2nd gen Dodges have always been the truck to modify. When plowing, it is my opinion that these trucks hold up better than any of their competitors although you still go through a lot of ball joints. Towing, my two favorites are the Chevy and the Dodge, the Chevy has a bit better ride but I like the power curve more on the Dodge and being a stickshift guy, you can't get a chevy that way.

Most truck owners seem to feel the need to strongly endorse one brand and bash all others but none of them are perfect and most of the trucks that have been available are pretty good. Having worked with many, my overall favorites have been the Dodge diesels but I don't have major problems with their competitors except for a few specific models that stunk (6.5 chevy, 6.0 ford).

[rtbates]

Thanks guys...

I'll most likely be getting a 3/4 ton diesel for the job...The trailer I have is a huge gooseneck that weighs a tad over 2k lbs!

barfwinkle: How do you like the dodge DIESEL??

I realize that this question was not directed at me but as an owner of several diesel trucks and having plowed commercially with many others, I thought that I would chime in. For full disclosure, my current daily driver is a '96 Ram 2500 diesel with 260,000 miles and I am toying with the idea of going to a 3rd gen but I have experience with everything but the 4th gens.

Dodge is on their "4th" generation of diesel trucks at this point. Gen 1 was 89-93 and these trucks were very tough but not particularly comfortable. The biggest thing to watch on the 1st gens was the transmissions, the sticks were okay but the autos were not great. The 2nd generation was 94-2002 and actually included 2 different configuration of the engine, one with a 12V head and a mechanical injection pump and one with a 24V head and an electronic injection pump. The 98.5-'02 trucks with the electronic injection pump had some issues with the lift pump failing and taking out the injection pump. On both versions, the manual transmissions were pretty good and the autos were not but there are lots of really good aftermarket autos available. From 2003-2007, the engines went commonrail which was great for driveability and the reliability was pretty good but injector replacement is kind of pricey if needed. The biggest difference to me was that the cabs got a lot nicer and everything feels more refined. In 2007.5, they changed to a 6.7L (still cummins) which overall has done quite well on reliability. The biggest complaints seem to be around fuel economy which is a few mpg below the previous trucks. In 2013, Dodge is going to change their emissions system a bit which should result in better fuel economy again. So, since there are so many Dodge diesels, it is a bit hard to make general statements about them. If you decide to look more at one, there is tons of information available on them on forums and a few of us here should be able to help you as there are many little details such as the KDP, changing to disc rear brakes in '97, etc that might help you with exactly what you want.

Overall, I would say that they are great workhorses. Having worked on many different brands of trucks, I feel that they are no more expensive than any other 3/4 ton diesel and significantly cheaper than some years of their competitors. One of the great things is that you can buy engine parts from Cummins. While I have probably only spent $50 ever on engine parts for one of these, it was in the middle of the night with a trailer on the side of the highway and I had the part 10 minutes after calling Cummins. The Cummins engines have always been one of the easiest engines to work on and they are very reliable, there is a reason why the 2nd gen Dodges have always been the truck to modify. When plowing, it is my opinion that these trucks hold up better than any of their competitors although you still go through a lot of ball joints. Towing, my two favorites are the Chevy and the Dodge, the Chevy has a bit better ride but I like the power curve more on the Dodge and being a stickshift guy, you can't get a chevy that way.

Most truck owners seem to feel the need to strongly endorse one brand and bash all others but none of them are perfect and most of the trucks that have been available are pretty good. Having worked with many, my overall favorites have been the Dodge diesels but I don't have major problems with their competitors except for a few specific models that stunk (6.5 chevy, 6.0 ford).

Good information Klem

Thanks

[minke]

I don't have much experience but perhaps I can be helpful. I tow an Albin Vega 27 with about the same displacement as a 25D. I've got an F-250 with a gas engine, 3.73 ratio axles, and most important, a 6 speed automatic transmission with so-called tow/haul mode. Part of tow/haul is real engine braking when going downhill.

Towing from MD to CO I got 9 to 11 MPG without exceeding 55 MPH. The engine braking was comforting crossing the Appalachians. While the downhills here in the Rockies can be very long, in the east they can be very steep and the extra braking is (repeating) very comforting with 7,500 lbs. chasing you. I suspect that recent half-tons have 6 speeds and tow/haul but don't actually know that.

I never towed anything heavy before the Vega and I have experience with only one hitch. Some load equalizing (weight distributing?) hitches also have an anti-sway feature and I got that. Crossing KS with strong gusty winds on the stern quarter I had no sway at all. I have no metrics for those winds but I was surprised that I didn't feel a need to slow down (from my admittedly slow 55).

The gas engine has enough torque and power that accelerating or traveling uphill I can't tell that the trailer is there.

Alan

[okawbow]

I use a Ford F350 pickup with a 5.4L gas engine and automatic transmission to pull my Bristol 24 and Privateer 26 on 3 axle standard hitch trailers. I 've pulled them from Florida to Illinois, and North Carolina to Illinois, as well as locally. Both rigs weigh about 8000lbs. The 350 handles the trailers easily and the larger brakes and heavy duty transmission make things feel more secure. I bought the truck off Ebay for a song, as it was a termite company fleet truck. I get about 10 MPG when pulling the trailer, and 16 unloaded.

[trapper]

Our trailer is very heavy, much heavier than it needs to be, with 3 axels. We have pulled the 25D with the Nissan Titan (not sure but I think it is ½ ton) but the Ford 250 diesel is much better. The Titan will pull it fine, but it will not haul it out of the water. The Ford 250 can haul it and pull it out. Be careful going bigger than a F250 (not sure what tonnage--I'm a girl and I don’t speak "truck'-- I am not recommending Ford, I just do not know the other comparable) we purchased a used F350 but the insurance was outrageous. Apparently, they consider a F350 a "commercial" vehicle in my state, regardless what you doing with it. Liability alone was $3,000 per year. The F350 we purchased was cheap and we just use it around the farm and do not tag it because of the insurance.

I am going to sell my trailer to my brother so I will be in the market for a trailer for my 25D in the next few months. The one I have has taught me "bigger is not always better"-- At least in my state because of the insurance (and gas), that probably goes for the truck as well.