CD-25 (not CD-25D) conversion to inboard motor

[jepomer]

Please approach this question as an academic exercise.

I have read that there is at least one CD-25 that was converted to an inboard drive.

I want to focus solely on a THEORETICAL conversion of a CD-25 to an inboard drive train rather than using an outboard.

For this discussion, I am not interested in "retaining the resale value" or other similar statements.

Since I have a functional outboard, that will in all likelihood be the way I will stay. But since my background is science and engineering, I can't help but ponder the question.

QUESTIONS:
1) What does the existing inboard conversion(s) look like?
2) Would the keel be able to be modified so that the rudder can remain unmodified?
3) Other drive train conversion concerns?

WHY PONDER THIS MODIFICATION:
Reading the posts about space for a 4-stroke outboard in the lazarette and knowing that if the boat "hobby-horses" the propeller can come out of the water, I wondered what would be required to install a drive shaft and propeller in front of the rudder and through the keel similar to what the CD-25D does.

STATUS of our CD-25:
Our CD-25 (#622) has not yet made it to the water this year due to cold/rainy early spring weather, constraints of a day-job and since I want to do the work myself. Also, we do have a Capri 22 which is in the water and actively sailed almost twice-a-week leaving less time free to work on the CD-25. But with my CD-25 in my driveway, I do ponder all sorts of options.

The bronze replacement ports from Newfound Metals have now arrived and I need to enlarge the smaller two pairs of forward ports and add some fiberglass since the length of the original plastic large aft pair of ports is a bit longer than what I could get without ordering a custom size.

The internal woodwork will becoming out next (see Stan Freihofer's restoration as an incentive - www.reefroof.com) to make sure all parts of the hull and rigging are to spec. It will also allow me to refinish the wood.

So, with everything cleared internally, I would have very good access to the area that a drive shaft hole would need to be drilled.

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As I stated earlier, this is meant to be an academic discussion of "how" one MIGHT do this conversion.

If I did do it, I would use an electric motor rather than a gas or diesel engine. We have had much success with electric outboard drives and very much enjoy the quiet and lack of petroleum odors - battery capacity sized for 2 hours at full speed.

For those fearful that the electric motor batteries would not have enough "range", the lazarette will still be available for a regular outboard.

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So, how could a CD-25 be modified for an inboard drive?

[Joe Myerson]

jepomer,

Such a CD25 does exist! It used to be based in Falmouth, MA, and it is now stored at Parker's Boat Yard in Red Brook Harbor, MA. (Or it was until last year.)

I don't know if the current owners are CDSOA members, but I do know that the former owners are.

The boat is equipped with a Yanmar 1GM--the same engine that the 25D carries.

I can't give you any more information that that, but perhaps the former, or even the current owners will chime in.

I believe the former owners purchased a 25D.

Good luck with your "academic exercise."

--Joe

[jepomer]

Joe,

I thought there was a recent post about that boat!

I just sent a PM to the poster who was selling that particular boat last May hoping for a few details.

Probably would have been a better winter question. It is just a curiosity question at the moment. All designs start out this way. A few actually get to the serious planning stage.

I appreciate any discussion concerning "how" it could be done. "Whether" it should be done will be saved for another discussion.

John

[jepomer]

Various postings describing a CD25 with an inboard motor:

www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=28464

We have a 1975 Cape Dory 25 that was retrofitted with a Yanmar 10hp diesle engine (Sails are in good condition and there are older sails that we have never used. We keep it at Parker's Boat Yard in Bourne where it has been yard maintained since 2005.

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www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=14281

A 1973 CD25-- not a 25D-- retrofitted with a Westerbeke diesel, a bowsprit, and numerous other customizations, all done apparently to a high standard.

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Found at www.yachttantalus.us/guestlogSovereign.htm

HELLO--------I OWNED A CD 25 HULL # 34 ORIGIONAL NAMED BUCKDANCER----RENAMED PHOENIX HAD AN VIRE 7 HP INBOARD ENGINE INSTALLED AT THE FACTORY ... JOHN

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Sounds like there are at least 3 inboard CD25s out there. The factory made them or retrofitted them.

John

[Steve Laume]

I am really intrigued by the electric powered inboard idea. I am not so sure it would work for all sailing situations but it could be very good for some.

If I wanted to do this conversion and had an outboard powered CD-25 I would start by getting my current boat back to original and sale-able condition. You could then sail it as is with an outboard while looking for CD-27 with a bad engine.

I know this isn't what you asked but it would seem like a far easier project that would have a greater chance of success. The benefits could be realized in many ways. As earlier stated, it would be an easier project. You would not be making any alterations to the hull and rudder that could effect performance. The added weight of motor and and a large battery bank would fit into a space that was originally designed to accommodate similar mass. In short, you would not significantly alter the sailing characteristics of the boat.

I am not real familiar with the lay out of the CD-25 but it might be hard to find room where it was needed. Storing a large batter bank very far aft would seem to be a bad idea. in addition to exterior hull modifications you would also have to bore out the hull for a stern tube and create some sort of motor bed from scratch. The addition of all the extra gear on a CD-25 would probably consume a great deal of your stowage space. I don't know your situation but if not day sailing off of a dock with electricity, you would also need a way to charge your battery bank. Finding room for a good sized solar array or even a place for a generator might be challenging.

When resale time came around and it might not come as soon with a slightly larger boat, the electric powered CD-25 might might not be as cost effective as a CD-27.

As you seem to enjoy projects, finishing your current boat and looking for another one to convert would just give you greater joy.

I my woodworking business over the years I would often have people ask me if certain things could be done. I would answer that anything could be done but it might not be the best solution to the problem or they might enjoy spending their money on something else that would give greater satisfaction for the amount they would have to spend, Steve.

[jepomer]

I know that the conversion is probably not cost effective. That is why I asked to approach this as an academic exercise rather than a "must do".

I do have a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 tiller model electric outboard that I have been using on our Capri 22. The Torqeedo performs equal to the Nissan 5 HP (2-cycle) that we used last year. I have been out in 20-25 knot winds and choppy seas with both motors and had equivalent control and speeds.

I use four GC2 batteries for the needed 24 volts. It gives me 2 hours at full throttle (5 knots), 16 hours at half speed (3 knots). This takes care of almost all of my needs. The sails are our primary engine.

Most likely, I would compare both the Torqeedo and Nissan 5 on the Cape Dory 25 rather than the project of installing an inboard electric motor. Removing the motor from the lazarette may be needed more often than not. The Torqeedo should not be left in the salt water all of the time - not a good idea for the Nissan either.

The size of the motor and the space for the batteries would work well for the CD25. I also imagine using a two bladed propeller that would hide behind the keel when not needed. The instant on/instant off of the electric motor would provide a convenient backup when trying to sail into certain areas.

I'm curious how the CD25 with inboards were laid out. I hoping someone here has seen them out of the water.

[m.tallon]

jepomer; if I'm not mistaken you said you have a CD25 hull # 622. The cruise 2.0 model Torqeedo motor you have should also have a 3-blade propeller. I'm concerned that the motor enclosure and propeller (lower unit) may not fit in the engine well. Have you actually installed the cruise model 2.0 in the CD25?

[Markst95]

I'm surprised more boats with outboard wells don't add a slot to the stern to allow the outboard to be raised out of the water. Seems like the best option.

[m.tallon]

Markst95; Wow, and thatnks. A very interesting approach. Looks well done. Wondering how you remove the it as the slot looks narrow. I find this an excellent option on the Typhoon; however, I'm still interested if anyone has actually stuck a 3-blade 10-12 pitch Torqeedo motor through a standard CD25 engine well slot.
Mark

[jepomer]

The propeller should manage to get in the normal opening since the propeller can be rotated. But it is not a convenient procedure and the Torqeedo should not stay constantly immersed according to the manufacturer.

The rear slot extension looks interesting and very doable. But I am still toying with the idea of installing an electric inboard. My CD25 is still on the hard. My Capri 22 is in the water using the Torqeedo, but now on a mooring. I use a 100 watt solar panel to recharge the 210 amp-hour battery bank. The charging system meets my needs. The panel will provide most of the power needed for low speed motoring in the day.