Wiring woes: Part II

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » Jul 2nd, '11, 08:31

The good news: Creme Brulee was launched last week (I've only spent one afternoon afloat so far, but it was under ideal conditions).

My friend Dan and I (he did most of the work, truth be told) rewired the mast, and my steaming light and deck light now work.

The bad news: We installed new coax cable to the masthead antenna, hoping that would solve the VHF problem I had last season. However, it does not seem to have made a difference: Reception is spotty and cuts in and out when the boat moves.

Conclusion: (Or at least a good working hypothesis) That there's a bad connection in the coax that runs from the base of the mast to the radio--passing between the coach roof and the headliner.

Questions: Is it possible to replace that length of cable now that the boat's in the water? Could I use the existing coax as a messenger line?

And, finally, is it possible that I could do this on my own, as Dan is busy sailing?

Any thoughts?

Happy Independence Day to all!

--Joe

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Jul 2nd, '11, 09:47

Joe, anything is possible.

That said, it might be rather difficult to replace the wire alone, with the mast stepped.

I keep an emergency antenna on Raven. It has it's own length of coax and some sort of mounting bracket all stuffed into a small plastic tube. If I was in your current situation, I might be tempted to hook that up and use it for the season of at least to get me out on the water, with a working radio until I could get some help to deal with the mast wiring.

It would decrease your range by not having the antenna as high but there are lots of boats on the water with pretty low antennas.

From your description and the fact that replacing the cable didn't seem to solve the problem I would be looking somewhere else for a fix. The connections at the radio, the antenna itself and especially the base of the mast would be likely culprits.

Have you tried temporarily hooking up another radio to see if the radio itself may indeed be the problem? raven also carries a spare radio. I have female soderless connectors on the power cord and males on both radios. This allows me to plug in either radio without messing with the wiring.

Older, used, radios, in good working condition, are very cheap and good for trouble shooting in addition to being used as a spare, Steve.

Gary M · Post by **Gary M** » Jul 2nd, '11, 10:35

Joe,

On my CD22 the coax drops down the mast, then through the mast step into the cabin through a hole in the liner that is about 4 inches in diameter. Cape Dory made a teak cap to cover this hole for a finished look.

From this location the coax runs between the liner and the cabin top to the radio. Sounds just like yours.

Why not just pull on the coax at the radio and see if the coax at the mast step moves? If it does, you can use the old to pull a new coax through.

Before doing this you could just run a "test or temporary" coax from the radio to your new mast coax. Do the hook ups and see if it solves your problem. If it does then you can run the new coax with the knowledge that you are on you way to a cure.

Or you could put a proper fitting on your new coax and unplug your radio from its current location and hook it up to the new coax. Supply DC voltage and see if that is working.

Good Luck

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Jul 2nd, '11, 12:02

Nobody has yet mentioned kinks. Make sure there are NO short radius turns in the coax. Also, the fewer connections, the better. My philosophy when running any new wiring it to just make a nice loop anywhere you think you may need a disconnect later. You may never really need it, and with the loop, you can add it later.
I don't know where you sail, but in the South, masts sometimes go YEARS without being unstepped.

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » Jul 2nd, '11, 21:30

Thanks guys.

Steve: This problem developed last year on the way to Bristol, RI. At Bristol Joe McPhee lent me an emergency antenna, and the radio reception was close to normal.

Gary: I also have one of those teak panels just underneath the mast step. When I pulled it down, I found that there's a second connector there, When I looked at that connector this morning, I noticed that it was kind of green. So I opened it up, and it was badly corroded. So ...

Troy: That connector has no business being there, and I suspect it was added at some time after the boat was built.

However, my first try will be to replace that connector and see if that is the cause of the problem.

And, Steve, I happen to have a never used 3-ft. Shakespeare whip antenna for a powerboat. If that connector is not the problem, I'll get a mount for that antenna, along with a length of coax and rig it off my stern rail for the season. It will be better than nothing.

Once the boat's on the hard, I plan to tackle that coax that's behind the headliner. In fact, this winter's major project is to replace the electrical panel.

Best,

--Joe

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Jul 2nd, '11, 23:14

Years ago I got tired of having to walk around and find "just the right spot" to get cellular reception when camping. I had the "bright idea" for an invention: a cellular antenna held aloft by a small helium balloon, tethered only by the tiny antenna cable. I did some checking and discovered that my "invention" had been in use by our military for a long time. My hopes for a fancy retirement were quickly dashed. However, it IS a way to drastically improve cellular or VHF in an emergency: like when you want a pizza delivered.

Dick Kobayashi · Post by **Dick Kobayashi** » Jul 3rd, '11, 09:03

Joe, I have similar problems. I had the yard replace the coax in the mast. Now I have coax coming out of the mast with a male connector and a wire coming out of the cabin - also with a male connector - are double female connectors available. and by the way I haven't seen any single female connectors either. The yard didn't put a grommet in the mast at the base, so I assume there is no grommet at the top. I will chat with them about this on Tuesday/Weds.

I have noticed that the original coax through the headliner is very thin/old - but it must have worked once.

Steve are you moored in Mattapoisett this year?

Ken Textor · Post by **Ken Textor** » Jul 3rd, '11, 09:21

Joe,

In recent years, I've stopped using my built-in VHF and gone to a $99 handheld that is fine for bridges, marinas, and boats within line-of-sight. For an emergency in remote places or well offshore, a cell phone works just as well as VHF, sometimes better. But you sail among the multitudes and I suspect emergency help would be well within the range of handheld. Just a thought,

Ken
________
FrolicsomeGrl cam

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Jul 3rd, '11, 09:36

Dick, I have the same set up as you do at this time. To many males hanging around at the mast. They do make the female/female to keep them all happy. They are cheap and solve the problem. (That last line didn't sound quite right).

We are back in Noank again this year. Last year might not have been the best one for our plan to moor in Mattapoiset but we found we just didn't get to the boat nearly as much when it was two hours away.

I am pretty sure we will be venturing back that way for the meet up so hope to see you then.

Troy, I could have used one of your balloons or a kite when I sailed to Maine. I was supposed to call when I arrived and after a long solo passage I discovered there was no cell reception in the area I intended to anchor and rest. The worst part is that people at home would start to worry if they didn't hear from me. I wound up going into Stonnington and discovered the only place with cell reception was at the top of the hill. I drug my butt up there and it was still very spotty until I climbed up on a big oil tank.

Cell phones are just not a reliable form of communication while out on the water, Steve.

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Jul 3rd, '11, 09:56

One of these inexpensive new gadgets will solve the problem of communication with the folks back home. They work just about anywhere.

Dick Kobayashi · Post by **Dick Kobayashi** » Jul 3rd, '11, 11:21

Steve, Do you have a source of female/female connectors. I haven't been able to locate them - but actually I just started looking.

dk

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Jul 3rd, '11, 11:56

Why not just replace one of the connectors with a female? Better yet, replace them both.

Gary M · Post by **Gary M** » Jul 3rd, '11, 12:28

Is this what you need?

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... sNum=11106

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » Jul 3rd, '11, 15:40

After finishing a quick sail in increasingly threatening conditions (one reef in main, genny furled to 110%, when sky got blacker and blacker ...) I just spent about an hour trying to replace the two green male connectors with one of those nice, gold-plated Shakespeare splicers. Because of the tough angle and nobody to help me by holding the wires, I ended up doing a really sloppy job.

Thought I'd test the radio anyway, and it doesn't work very well. I tried radio checks on Ch 28 (automatic) and on Ch 9, with no success. I could listen to the WX. bit that would cut out now and then.

I guess I'll give it one more try before chucking the mast-top antenna for the whip antenna that's been gathering dust (in its unopened container) for a number of years now.

Ken: I've been relying on cell phones and my handheld since I discovered that my masthead VHF wasn't working. But there have been times, when communicating with other boats in the fleet, for example, when the handheld just won't hack it.

I do have to make sure that the radio itself is still functioning properly.

Arrrrrrrrghhhhhh!

--Joe

Mike Thompson · Post by **Mike Thompson** » Jul 3rd, '11, 17:34

I had a similar problem with my VHF. I opened it up and found that the tiny
wire between the coax and the printed circuit board had fractured. Most of
the time the wire touched the circuit board hence the problem was intermittent.

I wound some tinned wire around the tiny fractured wire and liberally drooled
on solder. It works now!

The Cape Dory Board

Wiring woes: Part II

Wiring woes: Part II

Wiring

coax kinks

One more possibility

Just an amusing aside

and the source of Helium at Sea is...

Another approach

SPOT

Source of Female/Female

Female-female?

Disaster, sort of

VHF connection