Please see the photos below. This season the boat was not moved from the mooring field due to weather, motor issues, etc so I was concerned and surprised to see the damage to the forward end of the keel last week after the boat was hauled and put on stands. I have never had an accident with the boat (e.g. never run aground, never collided with anything).
Note I was not there when the boat was pulled or launched in the Spring. The pictures may not show all the detail but the forward end of the keel is damaged so the gel coat is gone and the fiberglass matt etc is exposed... I have sent these to the yard staff but just wondering if this could possibly have happened during haulout or launch?
Pic 1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24241390@N03/2928615695/
Pic 2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24241390@N03/2929479010/
Also, how hard would this be to fix? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
KD
Help please -Keel damage possible during haul out or launch?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Help please -Keel damage possible during haul out or launch?
"Life begins at 2 knots."
An old repair?
Is there any other damage, aside from the leading edge of the keel? I'm not seeing any fresh scratches in the paint around those craters - maybe that's an old repair job falling out?
If it's just the leading edge of the keel, I'd consider just picking out the loose bits, clean & sand the area, then fill with epoxy. If you're not experienced with epoxies, Marine Tex epoxy might be a good way to go here. Just don't lay any epoxy on too thick. Build up what you need in layers no more than 1/4" at a time and let each layer cure at least a day before cleaning, sanding, and adding the next layer. Temps should be above 50° for epoxy work. Sand & fair the area when the last layer is cured.
These little surprises are part of the joys of boat ownership. No worries, she'll be fine.
John Ring
CD28 #241 Tantalus
If it's just the leading edge of the keel, I'd consider just picking out the loose bits, clean & sand the area, then fill with epoxy. If you're not experienced with epoxies, Marine Tex epoxy might be a good way to go here. Just don't lay any epoxy on too thick. Build up what you need in layers no more than 1/4" at a time and let each layer cure at least a day before cleaning, sanding, and adding the next layer. Temps should be above 50° for epoxy work. Sand & fair the area when the last layer is cured.
These little surprises are part of the joys of boat ownership. No worries, she'll be fine.
John Ring
CD28 #241 Tantalus
Sailing involves the courage to cherish adventure and the wisdom to fear danger. Knowing where one ends, and the other begins, makes all the difference.
another possibility
Could this be blisters that have reached the point of breaking the gelcoat? A check of the remaining hull for blister problems is in order. Water in the bilge migrating into the hull could be a likely source of blister problems particularly if the water in the bilge is fresh and the boat sits in seawater.
It doesn't look like damage caused by hauling straps or dropping the boat. It appears the edges of the gelcoat have separated from the glass behind.
Unless the fiberglass is damaged by impact its a simple repair. Simply grind down the edges to taper them back and apply a layer of fiberglass with epoxy. Follow with a barrier coat over the area to seal it and then bottom paint.
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD 30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
It doesn't look like damage caused by hauling straps or dropping the boat. It appears the edges of the gelcoat have separated from the glass behind.
Unless the fiberglass is damaged by impact its a simple repair. Simply grind down the edges to taper them back and apply a layer of fiberglass with epoxy. Follow with a barrier coat over the area to seal it and then bottom paint.
Boyd
s/v Tern
CD 30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
There was a previous repair
I rechecked my survey and there was a repair done to that spot in the past. The surveyor said it may require attention in the future. I guess the future is upon us. I am fine with fixing it if it something from the past; I was just trying to see if it could have been from the yard. Honestly, I am happier that it appears to be from a previous repair and not from a yard problem... they have been pretty good with the old girl so I am glad that it appears to not be them.
Now I will have to research epoxy repair and learn some new skills.
Regards,
Kevin
Now I will have to research epoxy repair and learn some new skills.
Regards,
Kevin
"Life begins at 2 knots."
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TyTwo
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 17th, '05, 10:08
- Location: CD Typhoon Weekender Hull #2
Manchester/Framingham, MA
I'd think the most important thing you can do now is nothing. Let the boat dry out over the winter (make sure water can't get at the damaged area) and address in the spring when it's nice and dry. I don't think this is a major problem, by the way.
Eric Woodman
Eric Woodman
Eric Woodman
Almost Blue
Typhoon Weekender #2
Formerly Megan E
Almost Blue
Typhoon Weekender #2
Formerly Megan E
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Tim Mertinooke
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 18:28
There is the potential for a problem if the damage allowed water to work its way in between the ballast and the hull itself. My old Pearson Ariel allowed water to get in there through a poorly sealed bilge. A few freeze/thaw cycles later and I had this to fix:
Hopefully the damage is limited to the first few layers of glass and did not penetrate the hull. I would grind it out now to see exactly what you are dealing with and post some more pictures.
Hopefully the damage is limited to the first few layers of glass and did not penetrate the hull. I would grind it out now to see exactly what you are dealing with and post some more pictures.
CD26 #52
"Odyssey"
"Odyssey"
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Al Levesque
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 09:00
- Location: Athena CD33 #94 Salem MA
Poor patch job
From the look of separation of the outer layers and the discoloration of the original material it was a poor patch job that was done in the past. The condition of the rest of the boat would warrant a permanent repair starting with grinding out all of the previous patch and then down to clean material. You should feather the edges and lay in cloth in increasing sizes. It may be worthwhile to engage a fiberglass specialist to maintain your investment in the boat. You might get one to give you an estimate to help you decide.
Kevin,
I have done a fair bit of epoxy work on cape dories. I have never heard of water penetration on them like the Pearson Ariel in the picture but it definately is possible. The glass is very thick and well bonded on the CD's in the keel section.
May I suggest Don Casey's this old boat for some pointers on good basic glass work. Basically, looking at your repair, I would grind away any loose cloth and layers of glass, sand with 80 grit. clean off with acetone and maybe a dewaxing solution. Then consider the build up of resin and cloth/roving/matt if needed. I like Raka epoxy but West or System three may be easier to work with and have better instruction. After sanding and fairing you should be able to have a great surface to paint up and look like new. Be sure to check the entire hull for any blemishes since as you are doing this you may as well do any other little spots as well.
If it is any consolation, I have a 4" diameter 1/2" deep chunk out of the bottom front of my keel - wasn't me! I reckon with the low water last year plowing through mud we may have hit a rock in there. Because it's a CD, I didn't even need to fix it last year, but I hope to next spring. Aaaaahhhh boat work!
Good luck,
Paul
I have done a fair bit of epoxy work on cape dories. I have never heard of water penetration on them like the Pearson Ariel in the picture but it definately is possible. The glass is very thick and well bonded on the CD's in the keel section.
May I suggest Don Casey's this old boat for some pointers on good basic glass work. Basically, looking at your repair, I would grind away any loose cloth and layers of glass, sand with 80 grit. clean off with acetone and maybe a dewaxing solution. Then consider the build up of resin and cloth/roving/matt if needed. I like Raka epoxy but West or System three may be easier to work with and have better instruction. After sanding and fairing you should be able to have a great surface to paint up and look like new. Be sure to check the entire hull for any blemishes since as you are doing this you may as well do any other little spots as well.
If it is any consolation, I have a 4" diameter 1/2" deep chunk out of the bottom front of my keel - wasn't me! I reckon with the low water last year plowing through mud we may have hit a rock in there. Because it's a CD, I didn't even need to fix it last year, but I hope to next spring. Aaaaahhhh boat work!
Good luck,
Paul
Thanks!
As always this board and group is an amazing source of knowledge. Thanks so much for all the help. I will check out the damage in more detail to ensure its properly sealed for the winter. Also, I will have to research the expoxy/glass fixes. Good Old Boat was already on order and should arrive this week.
Regars,
Kevin
Regars,
Kevin
"Life begins at 2 knots."
Herreshoff Interior
Thanks! I love the Herreshoff interior. IMO it really opens it up compared to the original 70's wood veneer.
The prior owner used contact paper for all the bulkheads and counter tops. I was concerned it may not hold up well over time but it has lasted 6 years without problems.
The prior owner used contact paper for all the bulkheads and counter tops. I was concerned it may not hold up well over time but it has lasted 6 years without problems.
"Life begins at 2 knots."
More Questions
So spring is upon us... well hopefully once it finally warms up here in Boston, and I have some questions about the pictures above and the repair options...
Note in the pictures the hole/crack looks a lot bigger than it is. Each opening is about 1/2 in length or so.
I have read the latest version of Don Casey's "This Old Boat" (Great book by the way, much improved over the original) and he seems to mention fixing very large repairs using cloth and pulling from the outside or pushing from the inside... in the case in the pictures dont I just need to fill the outer layer of gel coat or do I need to glass in multiple layers of laminate, etc. to built it back up?
I dont want to make a mountain out of a mole hill with the repair and if it requires laying cloth, etc I think I may need to call in an expert to fix this issue. I was hopiing to just fix this like you fix a an issue with a wall at home... get some puddy type material, fill it in over mutlipe layers, sand it and cover with bottom paint... However, after reading the books and websites it seems I may need to grind, cut, re-glass, epoxy and then sand, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
KD
Note in the pictures the hole/crack looks a lot bigger than it is. Each opening is about 1/2 in length or so.
I have read the latest version of Don Casey's "This Old Boat" (Great book by the way, much improved over the original) and he seems to mention fixing very large repairs using cloth and pulling from the outside or pushing from the inside... in the case in the pictures dont I just need to fill the outer layer of gel coat or do I need to glass in multiple layers of laminate, etc. to built it back up?
I dont want to make a mountain out of a mole hill with the repair and if it requires laying cloth, etc I think I may need to call in an expert to fix this issue. I was hopiing to just fix this like you fix a an issue with a wall at home... get some puddy type material, fill it in over mutlipe layers, sand it and cover with bottom paint... However, after reading the books and websites it seems I may need to grind, cut, re-glass, epoxy and then sand, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
KD
"Life begins at 2 knots."
I don't see anything that you couldn't repair yourself. It appears there is a lot of paint buildup on the hull and it is flaking off in numerous places. Looks like it is about time to strip the hull and start over. You will most probably remove a hundred pounds or more of old paint.
For the damaged area just grind away all the bad material. Then start building up the area with layers of fiberglass tape and resin. When you get close to the original shape apply a couple of finish layers of glass large enough to cover the entire area. Cover the entire area with a fairing compound and grind/sand smooth. Apply paint and you are done.
For the damaged area just grind away all the bad material. Then start building up the area with layers of fiberglass tape and resin. When you get close to the original shape apply a couple of finish layers of glass large enough to cover the entire area. Cover the entire area with a fairing compound and grind/sand smooth. Apply paint and you are done.
Have A Nice Day
Epoxy vs Resin
One recommendation for what its worth:
I've read over the years that when making repairs to fiberglas, epoxy has a much stronger bond with the existing fiberglas than resin.
A close friend has recently completed a major rework of his Wellcraft, replacing the stringers, bulkheads and transom. All was done using West System epoxy. West offers a free manual on fiberglas repair.
Good luck with your efforts.
I've read over the years that when making repairs to fiberglas, epoxy has a much stronger bond with the existing fiberglas than resin.
A close friend has recently completed a major rework of his Wellcraft, replacing the stringers, bulkheads and transom. All was done using West System epoxy. West offers a free manual on fiberglas repair.
Good luck with your efforts.
P. Travis