Foul Weather Gear Question

[Joe Myerson]

Hi all:

I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but my experiences crewing for Neil last Saturday onboard the aptly named "Liquidity" made me think of it:

My foul weather jacket, which is probably 5 years old (a West Marine, mid-priced, breathable model), seemed to soak up the rainwater like a sponge. The bib and pants, bought at the same time, did keep me nice and dry.

Is there anything I can do to restore the jacket's waterproof status?

I realize that nothing will be completely waterproof in a drenching downpour, but I did pay about $150 for this set of foulies and I feel like they should last longer than they have.

A related question:

Do any denizens of the Cape Dory board have favorite foulies or favorite strategies for avoiding paying big bucks for them? (For example, in one of their books, Lyn and Larry Pardey suggest keeping several sets of el-cheapo raingear onboard.)

Thanks,

--Joe

[jerryaxler]

For cool climes the best is Grunden. It's what the pros wear. They are a good value and they are bomb proof.

[Maine Sail]

It's called NikWax TX Direct and it will re-apply the DWR coating to your jacket but not hurt the breathability.

http://www.nikwax-usa.com/en-us/product ... &activity=

[Joe Myerson]

Main Sail:

I've used Nikwax on my skiing clothes -- somehow I never thought it would help with foulies. Thanks.

Jerry:

Yeah, I really should go to Hamilton Marine or Sandwich Ship Supply and get the stuff that the pros wear. But I'm trying to cut down on spending.

--Joe

[Neil Gordon]

I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but my experiences crewing for Neil last Saturday onboard the aptly named "Liquidity" made me think of it:...

Get wet, drink single malt, get warm. What's the problem?

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi Joe,

The weatherproofing on foulies is a chemical treatment. It wears off over time, especially if you've actually washed your foulies with detergent. But time, general use, sun and salt all play a part in the degradation of the weatherproofing.

When you wash your foulies, don't use detergent, us only soap (like Ivory or HL Renew). Then retreat with HLP. HL Renew and HLP are a cleaning/retreatment system made by Henri Lloyd (foul weather gear manufacturer) and are designed for use on GORE-TEX, breathable and synthetic fabrics.

If you can't find the Henri Lloyd products (I've purchased then from Defender), wash them in your washing machine with Ivory Soap then spray them with ReviveX.

If your foulies are old, the taping at the seams may be shot, if that's the case, none of the retreatment products will do much good since the seams will continue to leak.

I'd go ahead and purchase the ReviveX products and try it on the old foulies. If they leak at the seams, it's time for new foulies.

If you have a leaky dodger or bimini on your boat, or a tent at home, purchase from High Tech Fabric Guard 303. You can also use it on your boat's cushions, sail covers, awnings, and just about any other fabrics where you'd like to retain water repellency.

Hope this helps,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

Some online sources of Henri Lloyd's HLP and HL Renew:

• Landfall Navigation: http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlrenew.html
  Defender: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... 9&id=88833
  Crowley's Yacht Yard: http://store.crowleys.com/-strse-591/He ... Detail.bok
  Mauri Pro Sailing: http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/me ... ode=HENACC
  Boating & Leisure World: http://www.boatingandleisureworld.com.a ... ctid=19649
  Henri Lloyd Online: https://www.henrilloydonline.com/web/xa ... prodID=428

Most ship's stores/chandlerys, including Defender, West Marine and Boater's World, carry the "303" products. You'll also find them at Ace Hardware and many automotive supplies stores.

[BillNH]

Yeah, I really should go to Hamilton Marine or Sandwich Ship Supply and get the stuff that the pros wear. But I'm trying to cut down on spending.

You could get a full set of Grundens for what you paid for the WM set, and you'd still be wearing them for years. I have a set that have lasted through two decades of commercial work on everything from schooners to tugs to tankers, and they're still going strong. Oh, I did have to replace the elastic suspenders once

They are a bit "clunky" for small boat sailing though, especially in warmer weather. I have a lighter weight set of gear for summertime sailing...

[Joe Myerson]

Cathy,

This looks like what I need. the seams are pretty much intact, but the foul-weather jacket has been worn a lot (I used it as an on-shore raincoat), and washed at least once.

I washed it with Ivory soap, but used a machine--even though the tag said "hand wash only."

Like you said, if the stuff doesn't work on my old foulies, I can always use it on the newer ones.

--Joe

[mgphl52]

Yikes! And I just ordered the NikWax products today... Such is life, I guess. We do need something soon since we "plan" to sail KAYLA back to Niceville from Lake Pontchartrain the 2nd weekend of October.

Cathy, Have you ever tried the NikWax products?

[Joe Myerson]

Mike and Toni,

As I said in an earlier posting, I've used NikWax products for my XC ski parkas and also for a Gore-Tex parka that I use when snowblowing the yard. It works well.

Neither condition matches a soaking tropical downpour, but both still indicate that NikWax is good stuff.

I don't suppose you folks will ever get to test NikWax under those particular conditions, but you should be just fine.

--Joe

[Maine Sail]

Yeah, I really should go to Hamilton Marine or Sandwich Ship Supply and get the stuff that the pros wear. But I'm trying to cut down on spending.

--Joe

Don't bother I used to be a "pro" (commercial lobsterman) and that stuff is HEAVY, HOT and HUMID as it does not breathe. Trust me you do not want that stuff for recreational use..

What it does do is not absorb as much fish stink as nylon does due to the PVC coating!!

[Maine Sail]

Hi Joe,

The weatherproofing on foulies is a chemical treatment. It wears off over time, especially if you've actually washed your foulies with detergent. But time, general use, sun and salt all play a part in the degradation of the weatherproofing.

When you wash your foulies, don't use detergent, us only soap (like Ivory or HL Renew). Then retreat with HLP. HL Renew and HLP are a cleaning/retreatment system made by Henri Lloyd (foul weather gear manufacturer) and are designed for use on GORE-TEX, breathable and synthetic fabrics.

If you can't find the Henri Lloyd products (I've purchased then from Defender), wash them in your washing machine with Ivory Soap or use 303 Fabric Cleaner then retreat the 303 High Tech Fabric Guard.

If your foulies are old, the taping at the seams may be shot, if that's the case, none of the retreatment products will do much good since the seams will continue to leak.

I'd go ahead and purchase the 303 Fabric Guard products and try it on the old foulies. If they leak at the seams, it's time for new foulies. You didn't waste your money because you can use the 303 products on your boat's cushions, sail covers, biminis, awnings, and just about any other fabrics for which you'd like to keep clean and retain water repellency.

Cathy,

I am a huge fan of 303 cleaner and Fabric Guard but NOT for breathable garments!!! The Henri Lloyd stuff is basically NikWax or ReviveX just more expensive. GoreTex is GoreTex and NikWax will work on a Henri LLoyd, Patagonia, North Face, Cloudveil or any other garment that is rated waterproof breathable.

303 High Tech Fabric Guard utilizes "Odorless Mineral Spirits (OMS)" as a carrier. OMS is a solvent! Solvents can delaminate breathable membranes!

Another product I also use is ReviveX it, like NiKWax, is water based product containing NO silicone (silicone BAD for breathable garments). It will not delaminate Goretex, eVent, Sympatex or any of the other knock off laminates or coatings.

Trust me I have lots invested in foul weather gear, climbing, skiing, kayaking and other sorts of waterproof breathable products.


As you said NEVER use a detergent, I include 303 fabric cleaner in this assessment, on waterproof breathable gear. The reason is that it will clog the pores of the PTFE membrane and ruin it's breathability. 303 can also cause delamination of the garment and should NOT be used on GoreTex no matter what 303 says. I don't think they actually recommend using it on GoreTex or coated/laminated waterproof breathable fabrics.

This only represents about a third of the jackets and pants we own. So yes I do take it seriously. In an ice storm bivouacked on Mount Washington with 80+ MPH winds I can't afford to have my shell "wet out". I have been depending on NikWax products for years on ALL my gear... The Lloyd stuff is fine but more expensive and it's basically identical in makeup to NikWax..

[Joe Myerson]

OK, Maine Sail (I should remember your name, since we've met several times at the Maine Boat Builders Show):

You've convinced me, largely because I've still got a bottle of NixWax Tech Wash, and because I can buy NixWax products at a nearby EMS.

So here's my next question:

Should I use the spray-on waterproofing or the wash-in version?

I've used the wash-in for parkas and so forth.

--Joe

PS: Cathy, I'm sure the Henri Lloyd stuff is fine, but I'll be able to pick up the NixWax closer to home.

[Maine Sail]

If you use a front loader (washing machine) I'd use the wash in but FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! If you have a top loader use the spray. Top loaders do not treat Gortex or down sleeping bags very nicely.

I usually use the wash in on nylon/Goretex products like foul weather gear and Spray for my "soft shell" polyester/fleece based gear..

The Henri Lloyd stuff is fine, basically the same (it's probably made by ReviveX/McNett) but you get more volume and more wash in's for the money with Nik or ReviveX..

[Cathy Monaghan]

.....I am a huge fan of 303 cleaner and Fabric Guard but NOT for breathable garments!!! The Henri Lloyd stuff is basically NikWax or ReviveX just more expensive. GoreTex is GoreTex and NikWax will work on a Henri LLoyd, Patagonia, North Face, Cloudveil or any other garment that is rated waterproof breathable.

303 High Tech Fabric Guard utilizes "Odorless Mineral Spirits (OMS)" as a carrier. OMS is a solvent! Solvents can delaminate breathable membranes!

Another product I also use is ReviveX it, like NiKWax, is water based product containing NO silicone (silicone BAD for breathable garments). It will not delaminate Goretex, eVent, Sympatex or any of the other knock off laminates or coatings.

...........This only represents about a third of the jackets and pants we own. So yes I do take it seriously. In an ice storm bivouacked on Mount Washington with 80+ MPH winds I can't afford to have my shell "wet out". I have been depending on NikWax products for years on ALL my gear... The Lloyd stuff is fine but more expensive and it's basically identical in makeup to NikWax....

Maine Sail,

This is great info!

Thanks,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay