New Shaft

[Russell]

Honestly, at least from the photo, the shaft does not look so bad. Stainless can and does develop a lot of surface corrosion, likely what your seeing in that picture is corrosion creeping from nearby more corrodable metals. I suspect it will clean up pretty well. Have you tried attacking it at all?

The area of your shaft forward of the stuffing box I am certain will clean up smoth (even if pitted) enough to slide out. Your more likely problem is going to be removing the shaft from the coupling (which is looking pretty unhappy, and it being mild steel your going to have fun there). If you can get the shaft off the coupling, it certainly should slide out fine. Once out you will be able to really assess the shaft, the area you can plainly see is not a problem, the area of concern will the that which is in the stuffing box.

Honestly, I would worry less about your shaft and more about your coupling and your stuffing box. Your stuffing box is going to be a mess to clean up and back off. It looks like it hasnt budged in a decade, so it certainly needs repacking, the corrosion you see outside certainly has crept inside which will tear what little packing material you have to bits. It wont sink your boat, but you will get a lot of spray coming out back there.

[Phil Shedd]

John

I would agree with Russell that I think that shaft will clean up . I would use a emery cloth strip with some oil to do it . Lightly scrape off the heavy stuff first than use the cloth .

BY the look of the picture I think that the packing nut may need to be replaced in the future . Right now I would get it lose and check for packing .

Have fun that is such a wonderful area to work in

Phil

[Stan W.]

Your shaft actually is relatively new (the original would have been bronze) and I agree with the others that it should clean up fine. Because it is bronze, you should be able to crack open your stuffing box without too much trouble either. Where you are going to run into problems is the coupling bolts. Those allen heads are going to strip out the instant you first try to turn them. Plan on cutting the heads off with a hacksaw or, better yet, a Sawz-All. Don't worry about damaging the coupling; they aren't too expensive and you clearly need a new one anyway.

[Randy Capstick]

John,

I don't think you will be able to get the shaft out without first removing the coupling.

I would try to remove the coupling bolts using a Hex drive attached to a socket. If they break or are stripped I would use a reciprocating saw to cut the bolts off by cutting through where the 4 bolt heads rest against the coupling. Just cut through far enough to get through each of the four bolts, then you should be able to separate the coupling from the shaftsaver. The stubbs of the bolts will remain in the shaftsaver and can be removed later using vise grips.(maybe!)

To remove the coupling, remove the set screws and I highly recommend a puller like this:

http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/cata ... 0Couplings

It will make the shaft/coupling separation a lot easier. Once the coupling is off just pull the shaft out the back of the boat and then you can get access to the cutlass bearing.

I agree with the other posts that the shaft does not look that bad from what you can see. The stuff in front of the packing nut may just flake off, but it may be worn or pitted aft of the stuffing box.

Good Luck,

Randy

[Boyd]

My coupling flange would not come off the shaft no matter what I did. I finally had to cut it off with a Sawsall. Having done that, if I had to do it again I would simply cut the shaft. Its way easier and they are not that expensive to replace. If your pressed for time its not a bad option. Just take the old pieces to a prop shop and have a new one made.

The bronze parts of the stuffing box can probably be rehabilitated, its the rusting mess of a stern tube that I suspect you need to replace.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[Russell]

Where can I get a new prop shaft if I have to cut it?

Will the shaft cut with a sawsall equipped with a fine tooth or maybe use a dremel with a cutoff wheel?

2 years ago my bronze shaft suffered from electrolysis and needed to be replaced. But 2 days of effort, by both me and one of the yard workers, we could not get the flange off of the shaft. Blow torches, every imaginable penetrating oil, you name it, it was tried, hours of banging, etc.. it just wouldnt come off. We finally resorted to cutting it with a sawsall since it was being replaced anyways, but fitting that tool in there to cut it was difficult, angles were just bad. But that was a bronze shaft, I dont think a sawsall will handle a SS shaft. Not sure how you would go about cutting a SS shaft in such a small space.

As for a new shaft, I bought mine through a chadlery pre-keyed. But being in Grenada I did not have many options and had to buy a 6' long shaft to replace my 18" one! So I actually 4 feet of 1" shaft sitting in a locker which I will gladly part with, it would have to be machined for the taper and key though. With shipping cost though your probably better off sourcing one locally. A lot of mechanics probably have used but perfectly servicable shafts in their shops leftover from repowers that needed new shaft lengths, I would try there first.

[Boyd]

If installed correctly the shaft and coupling are precision machined to an interference fit. Dont do a trial fit out of the boat. Once you tap them together and they wont want to come apart. The set screw when tightened down puts a bit of a dimple in the shaft and therein lies the problem. When I used a puller my shaft moved about a 1/4 inch till the dimple hit the backside of the screw hole, then stopped never to move any more. Thats when I started cutting the coupling. Spent about 2 weeks upside down cutting it in half. If you decide to cut the shaft a fine blade in the Sawsall will work. Have a good supply handy.

Couplings are cheap, about $40 as I recall. Take the shaft with yout so the prop shop can machine them to mate properly. Also spend the few extra bucks to have the shaft centerless ground. This will straighten it to perfection.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[Randy Capstick]

John,

Did you try to loosen the coupler bolts? If you can get the proper fitting Hex bit socket like these,

[/url]http://www.jcwhitney.com/Star-Torx-Hex- ... 01.jcw[url]

you might be suprised how it will break through the rust and come loose. Mine looked pretty rusty too and with a little persuasion they all came loose without stripping.

Once you get the coupling separated from the shaftsaver you can attach the puller on to the coupling where the shaftsaver was attached and push the stainless shaft out of the coupling. Some careful use of heat may help here as well (make sure the area is clear of any fuel/oil!)

The coupling bolts to the shaftsaver with the 4 bolts that are visible and there are 4 more bolts beneath the flange of the coupler, recessed into the shaftsaver and at the same radius as the coupler bolts, that hold the shaftsaver to the transmission.

I just went through this with my 28 and replaced the original bronze shaft with new stainless shaft/coupler/cutlass bearing. I got all the parts from Deep Blue. Here is a link:

[/url]http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/[url]

I think cutting the 1" shaft out would be a bear of a job, but possible with several of the right sawblades. I don't think a dremel would be up to the task.

Good Luck,

Randy[/url]

[John Ring]

I removed the two set screws out of the flange. But I can't get the shaft out I removed the prop and the cover of the stern tube. I placed a short length of galvanized pipe over the shaft and started to tighten down on the prop nut. It looks like the shaft pulled out about an 1/8" at first then stopped . It doesn't feel right, I've really got this cranked down. Where can I get a new prop shaft if I have to cut it?

STOP!! This sound like you are pulling the motor & transmission aft against the hull! You'll damage both for sure, and maybe the motor mounts (feet) and engine bed (bearers) too. If it's really stuck, just cut the old shaft out with a sawzall. You can get a new 1" by 20" (overall) shaft with coupling from Hamilton Marine delivered for about $300. Just tell them what transmission you have so they'll include the right coupling.

I need to look and see how this coupling and shaft saver fits together. I never went that far in my research because I thought the shaft would come out. I'm into it this far should I get a new coupling?

The coupling just threads into the shaft saver; I think there are four 10 mm cap screws. Alway use stainless here. You should be able to remove the four screws, back the shaft/flange away, and leave the saver in place (attached to the transmission flange).

Good luck,
John Ring
CD28 Tantalus

[Stan W.]

Even if you cut the shaft you still have to get the coupling off so you might as well tackle that first. If you're very lucky--like Randy-- those allen head bolts will come out without too much of a fight. More likely, you will have to cut them off. Either way, once you have the coupling off there is a good chance you will be able to seperate it from the shaft using the old "long bolts forcing shaft against socket" technique.

If you do end up having to buy new parts, I concur with the recommendation regarding Deep Blue Yacht Supply. Their prices and service are excellent.

Whatever you do, don't succumb to the temptation to cut the drivesaver. At about $200, those things cost 10 times what they should.

[Matt Cawthorne]

there were a couple of ideas on removing the coupling from several years back. I posted one that involved using the flange bolts as jacking screws. It worked wonderfully for me.

[Russell]

If you have to destroy your coupling and buy a new one, I highly recommend you switch to a "split coupling". After my nightmare getting the shaft out of the coupling last year, when I repowered this year I went with this style of coupling. There is no set screw/dimple arrangement. The coupling works like a clamp instead. To remove the shaft, you simply remove the clamp bolts then wedge a screw driver into the split and the shaft comes right out, no banging and headaches nessesary. I mean it will still have bolt corrosion problems, nothing is perfect, but I beleive it is far superior to the set screw style couplings.

Edit.. here is a drawing of the coupling I used:

[Jeff Barnes]

Russell,

Greetings. Not that I have any immediate plans to pull the shaft in Jazman, I am curious as to where you obtained the split coupling. I may order one just to have for when the day finally arrives.

Jeff

[valenteach]

When I began the project on my boat of replacing the cutlass bearing, I ran into this same problem where the transmission shaft coupling would not release the shaft. I used penetrating oil for a few days and a painter's heat gun and gear puller on the prop, that worked great, but didn't work on the coupling

My coupling was not in bad shape but after releasing the bolts and the holding pins it was just dry seized onto the shaft from 24 yrs of life. I was dealing with the original installation - a tight fit, two square nut pins that set into pre-drilled dimples on that end of the shaft and a square copper key about an inch long to lock it in place rotationally.

I've seen pros and cons to the method of using longer bolts through the coupling's own holes and to the transmission with a spacing block in between for releasing a coupling. I whacked at my coupling at first and it broke off a third of the bolt flange face, so I only had two screws holes left and could not try that method. ( I was a newbee for sure) . If you try that method, just be careful not to break the transmission end of things in the process of tightening, that would be bad. Some people don't recommend this method for that potential hazard.

So I then tried a gear puller but it did not apply pressure equally because of the missing third of the coupling's bolt-face flange, and that didn't work.

So naturally I wanted to save the shaft if I could, and I couldn't inspect it fully until I got it out of the boat, so instead of a cutting torch I went with a high speed grinder with a cutting wheel. Hanging down into the engine hatch I had tons of room (one advantage over CD sailboats) and with a surgeons touch I made several long cuts, going 1/4 inch at a time into the coupling, until I felt I was 1/8 of an inch or so from the shaft (using nothing other than a view of the edge of the cut and THE FORCE to guide me).

Then I gently drove a metal wedge into the cut and it forced the coupling to expand and break the last thin layer that the grinding wheel had left. I found I had only just grazed the shaft lightly with the grinding wheel in two spots. But even then the coupling didn't want to let go on all sides. I gradually forced a larger wedge into the cut and then there was enough play to tap it off the end. This method requires room to work, good steady hands, but the plus side is that the cutting/grinding wheels on a high speed grinder go through that metal like butter. The coupling was basically "glued" on that end of the shaft by years of the engine and shaft heating up and "baking" whatever initial lube/oil was applied inside that fitted coupling or subsequently dripped into the seam area.

Once out, I saw that the bronze shaft had worn out somewhat at the bearing area, and the new cutlass bearing I got was a tiny bit looser than it should be ideally. My CD 24's shaft is 8 feet long 1 1/4 inch diameter, so buying a new shaft in either stainless or bronze was going to be a huge financial hit. Deep Blue Yachts in Florida gave the best quote on a stainless shaft ($475), but with fuel sky high shipping from Florida to RI of over sized heavy items has gone into the hundreds of dollars. Local quotes were up into $800 range for either stainless or bronze. The dimples would have to be machined in based on the coupling specs.

But the machine shop said the shaft was straight. So since the transmission end is still in tact and the packing gland area is not pitted or too oxidized, and I got the shaft out in one piece, I'm reusing the same shaft and the bronze packing gland. If I could afford it, I would purchase a new stainless shaft and a dripless shaft seal.

If you do get a new shaft and coupling, or even just a new coupling, I highly recommend putting a light amount of GREASE on the two pieces before you "dry" fit them outside the boat to check their compatibility. I thought that my new coupling would be tight but initially I could not get it on past 1/2 an inch, then I panicked when I almost could not get it off again and the shaft was not in the boat! It was just a very good razor close fit, which is good but not obvious if both pieces are totally dry.

[John Ring]

I'm thinking I might also install a pss shaft seal.

[img]http://www.yachttantalus.us/Images/PSS/ ... ape400.jpg[/img]

There isn't enough room back there for a PSS shaft seal behind the old Volvo. The PSS needs 6 1/4" for itself. You could (should) replace the packing, and maybe add some dripless green stuff.

[img]http://www.yachttantalus.us/Images/Repo ... al-500.jpg[/img]
I got a PSS shaft seal in my CD28 by putting in a shorter engine (Beta BZ482). The shaft is now 6" longer than before, and came with a cool new hybrid coupling with key, clamp, and set screw arrangement (Hamilton Marine, $300 with 26" shaft). Yeah, I should have drilled the set screw for seizing wire, but I settled for a bit of 4200 on the threads for now.

Stan's right (as usual). Why are we taking this shaft out again? I also think that shaft's already been replaced once, else it would be bronze. Are we sure it needs to come out? If you're sure the cutless bearing is bad, or there is bad pitting and wear on the shaft where the packing rides, then maybe it does have to come out. If the rusty coupling is the only concern, and the motor runs well enough, I'd just let it be. Sail and enjoy.

Good luck,
John
CD28 #241 Tantalus