What's up with the bilge-pump switch?

[Judith]

Good news: it works. Bad news: only when it feels like it.

We have found that the "Auto" setting on our bilge pump works erratically. Sometimes it will run forever-and-a-day, whether or not there's water in the bilge. Then--if we reach in and shuffle the switch around--it will, briefly, run properly and cycle off when there's no water in the bilge. It seems to have something to do with re-positioning the switch. But then the problem comes back very shortly.

The question(s) is/are: Is this a bad switch? Are these switches, typically, quite finicky about how they're oriented? Should we somehow affix the switch in a "flat" position? And what the heck is 'flat' on a sailboat??

It seems to me this switch used to work quite simply, cycling "On" when there was water in the bilge, then cycling "Off" automatically. That doesn't happen now. . .and it makes me anxious, not having an "auto" bilge-pump I can rely on. . .

Any suggestions?

[Russell]

This sounds to me like a problem with the float switch, not your bilge pump on/off/auto switch. Float switches are notorious for failing, and what you describe is exactly what I have experienced about 5 times now, all were due to a failed float switch.

[Oswego John]

Hi Judith,

As Russell mentioned, is your float switch okay?

I wouldn't mess around with that switch. You can't rely on it. If I were you, I'd give it the deep six.

If it doesn't shut off sometime, Mr Murphy's Law dictates when, it could very easily ruin your pump impeller by running dry.

Normally, a switch of that type doesn't call for any certain mounting position. It is a three position snap switch. It has internal springs that maintain the mode the user places it in. In time the springs weaken and the switch fails.

Sometimes, when the switch is subjected to undue heavy loads, such as a locked rotor, the springs heat up and fail. In time, the internal contact points can blacken and result in intermittent performance.

Kiss it goodbye and get yourself a new, heavy duty off-on-auto switch. It's cheap insurance.

Good luck,
O J

[Russell]

In rereading this, I think I misunderstood a bit. Looking now, I think you dont have an on/off/auto switch, but instead have a bilge pump with a internal float switch and the auto setting on that is what is not working? Again, it gets back to the float switch problem though, just the built in one rather then the standalone one.

If this is indeed the case, I highly recommend getting one of those on/off/auto switches which you mount somewhere handy (normally near the electrical panel), a bilge pump that does not have a built in float, and a seperate float switch. Each one of these items will also include directions on how to wire this setup. You will still face failures of pump, switch, etc... but easier to track down and fix when your componants are seperate rather then all in one. Plus the on/off/auto switch is handy in that it will have a light that goes on when your pump is going, so your tipped off easier when things are not going as you expect.

I have never liked those out of the box automatic bilge pumps, a handy and easy solution for sure, but not nearly as robust or repairable. The only situation I like these pumps in are as high water pumps, installed above the standard pump/switch situation in the event the normal pump gets overhwhelmed, ie- only as an emergency backup.

[Judith]

Russell and OJ, the float switch is, indeed, what I meant--I'm still learning the naming-of-parts

You've helped me clarify my basic question(s), too: Can a bad switch operate intermittently? I'd have thought it either works or doesn't.

I tend to discount wiring/connections as the culprit. We had a similar problem several months ago and were ready to replace the bilge pump and/or float switch. But Warren started by putting in new wiring and more-secure connections; that was enough to get the existing pump and float switch working properly. Still, it does seem odd that the float switch now works after being jiggled or re-positioned. . .

By the way, we do have that separate "Auto-Off-Manual" switch in the cabin.

Thanks for your help.

[Neil Gordon]

Sometimes, it's just debris that interferes with the swich floating and falling with the water level. If it's sticky, it can stick "down" as the water lever rises (won't turn on) or "up" as the water lever falls (won't turn off). With a little bit of sticky, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

If you manually lift the float and the pump reliably turns on and vice versa, then it's problably not the wiring or connections. It's either a bad switch or it just needs some TLC.

[Russell]

Neils advice is spot on. Pull the switch out and give it a good cleaning, often it is indeed just a bit of sticky debris. If once all clean it still gives problems, check the wiring, particularly the butt connectors. If wiring is all good then most likely a new float switch is in order (which is too often the case, they arnt cheap unfortunately). After experiencing enough failed float switches I now always carry a spare.

[Judith]

Some time back, we scooped an impressive amount of muck, nuts-n-bolts, and small bits of wood out of the bilge, but I don't think we tried cleaning the switch itself. We'll try that first.

You scared me a little, Russell: when it has to do with the boat and someone says "It ain't cheap," my heart races. I checked prices, however, and am feeling better now

Thanks, yall.

Judith

[Russell]

You scared me a little, Russell: when it has to do with the boat and someone says "It ain't cheap," my heart races. I checked prices, however, and am feeling better now

Indeed, compared to many boat things, its not too expensive. But still horribly overpriced considering how simple they.

[Steve Kuhar]

I know this is a minority opinion, but I still think it worth at least thinking about doing away entirely with the automatic feature of the bilge pump, at least for when the boat is unattended. Leaks don't get better by themselves, and the first step in correcting one is knowing that you have one. Unless you have, and routinely reset a cycle counter, an autmatic bilge pump will cause you to miss your opportunity to catch a leak when it is still a small one. If you are not constantly connected to shore power (another thing that I am not too comfortable with) an automatic bilge pump will only extend you boats "surface time" by the life of your battery anyway. Again, I know this is not conventional thinking, so take it for what it is worth, I wouldn't argue with anyone who disagrees with me.

Steve Kuhar

[Neil Gordon]

I know this is a minority opinion, but I still think it worth at least thinking about doing away entirely with the automatic feature of the bilge pump, at least for when the boat is unattended.

That sounds to me like eliminating the fire extinguishers because it will make you more careful while operating the stove.

Yes, running the pump on the battery will limit the pumping time. But, if your boat is LEAKING (read "SINKING") you get extra time, which might be critical to saving the boat.

There are other ways to see if your boat leaks. A counter is one; so is just checking the level of water in the bilge. (Leave the boat with the minimum. If you're leaking, you'll inevitably arrive at the boat mid-cycle sooner or later.)

[Warren S]

when it comes to mechanical things, I *usually* have a good situational awareness if something is not behaving as usual. Forgetting that the icebox drains into the bilge, for example, I stopped chewing a mouthful of delicious grilled steak one evening when the family was aboard to wonder why the bilge pump came on - it never comes on! Oh well, I guess the point is that while aboard, I will detect a leak sooner since I will notice the auto pump functioning - even in rough weather sailing when water comes in from who-knows-where. Otherwise I may not catch it until the floor hatches float around my ankles

By the way, the problem is related to the replacement hose beint the wrong length - not holding the pump flat therefore preventing the float switch from opening (Problem identified).

I sure wish the engine compartment was, oh, 4 times larger!

[Leo MacDonald]

Hi All,

In the fall 2005 E.L.'s bilge pump switch (Rule float type) failed open, i.e. no auto start feature. I replaced it with another Rule 'Super Switch' (hoping it would be more 'super' that it's predecessor.)

Bending to a concern of the next float switch failure, in the spring (2006) I added a second bilge pump / switch combo unit (Rule 1100) supplied by the alternate house battery. This unit has a built in float switch and a micro processor. Delay start, delay stop, no load shut down, overload shutdown and possibly more that I have forgotten. The short story is it did not make it through a week of service before it constantly ran on. As per Rule's suggestion, I cleaned it, found nothing and it developed more failure modes.

The Rule Factory Rep. sent me a new unit, which was installed in the spring of 2007 - about the same dismal rate of performance. Also noted on both pumps that the discharge hose fitting is smooth and after a period of time would crack followed by disintegration.

In Oct. 2007 I remove the Rule 1100 pieces from the bilge and Installed a Johnson Pump 'L2200' ("Bilge Pump #1"), with a separate Johnson Pump capacitance reactance water sensing switch. This unit is much more robust than the Rule 2200 mounted next to it ("Bilge Pump #2.") Op test went well and it looks good so far. But, after two seasons with the $%^&* Rule 1100, I'll wait a season or two before declaring the Johnson pump a success.

I feel the Rule line is on the light side - good for bay-boats.