Is a Cape Dory right for me?

[jeffrey]

Hi Cape Dory owners. I'm looking to upgrade in size and seaworthiness from a Catalina 22. At this point, the CD27 or 28 look very attractive and we're going to look at a couple of 27's up in Georgetown, ME tomorrow.

I've never sailed on a Cape Dory, but keep digging up references to how slow they can be, don't pint well etc.

The closest thing I have to reference is sailing on a 35 foot Friendship sloop, which seemed just fine to me.

How much difference is there between say a CD28 and a similar sized Catalina?

Pointing ability??

Part of me likes to go fast, but I also appreciate the good looks and fine lines of a well designed sailboat.

Anyone have experience on lighter displacement fin-keel boats that can compare to their Cape Dory?

Id appreciate any opinions & information from anyone.

-Jeff

[barfwinkle]

Let me get the silliness out of the way first, and remember it is just that, silliness

I've never sailed on a Cape Dory, but keep digging up references to how slow they can be, don't pint well

Well most of the captains & boats I know pint very well. Doesn't really matter if it is a pop a top, twist off or cork screw, I think we can hold our own with just about any fleet/manufacturer.

Okay, now that that is out of the way, I too had a Catalina (albeit a 27) before owning a CD. Their speed and pointing ( ) ability are very dependent upon the conditions under which they are sailed.

My 27 was a great boat (1979) but it was not a Cape Dory. You will be impressed with the design, construction and the aesthetics of the CDs and I really don't think you'll be all that disappointed with the performance, of course unless you are talking about steerage in reverse

Can't go wrong with a CD, but then this board and most of it's contributors are a bit biased.

Good Luck

Bill

God I hope I didnt make a typo

[Carl Thunberg]

This may be biased, after all this is the Cape Dory Board , but you will not be disappointed with the performance of a Cape Dory. No one buys a Cape Dory for speed alone. She is a very seaworthy craft and will always bring you home safely. Plus, she's really sexy to look at. Personally, I really enjoy going head to head against Catalinas in the "unofficial racing circuit" (i.e. every time we're on a similar tack and course). My Cape Dorys hold their own pretty well in winds 10 knots or more. In light winds, the Catalina beats me every time. Give me 15 to 20 knots and I've got 'em beat hands down!

[tartansailor]

If you want to compare the performance numbers of different boats, you need to look at polar diagrams; refer to: www.ussailing.org/phrf/

If you want hull speed under 10 knots, look elsewhere.

If you want to go off shore and feel confident in a rapidly changing wind, and wave scenario, than look at full deep keel boats.

If you want a white knuckle ride in a confusing sea state, with gusts from Dante's seventh circle, look at fin keel boats.

It all boils down to the venue, but most important, avoid ugly boats like the plague.


Dick

[Neil Gordon]

How much difference is there between say a CD28 and a similar sized Catalina?

That depends on what type of sailing you do. If it's nice weather around the buoys day sailing in light breezes, you'll go faster (although you won't look better) in a Catalina. Go coastal or more when the small craft advisories are up and you'll feel (and be) safer in the Cape Dory. If there's wind and waves, the Cape Dory will track better... sailing a straight course gives you better velocity made good (that's how fast you are approaching your destination, not how fast the hull is going).

By the way, I know that we're all biased here, but maybe for good reason. My boat is admired from afar all the time by people asking, "Is that a Cape Dory?"

There's a value equation, too, to consider. Our boats are pretty much fully depreciated and what you pay for a Cape Dory now will be recovered later if the boat is maintained. Is that true for the Catalina?

[Mark Yashinsky]

As for pointing (pinting), the type of keel is not the only factor. Sail condition, sheeting arrangement, rig and sail tensioning, etc all play a part.
And given a bit a wind, I can point within the V of the Windex.

[jeffrey]

This is all good information. I thank you for taking the time to answer.

We started sailing on a Hobie Cat and still have it for when we want to go fast. Presently our Catalina 22 is fun on a large inland lake (Sebago in Maine), but we want to spend some time exploring some of the islands in midcoast Maine. We're not likely to be venturing too far offshore, but think perhaps it would be fun to make take a couple of weeks sailing further "downeast" or even south past Cape Cod.

I enjoy tweaking sails to milk more speed, but also desire a boat that will comfortably get us home if the winds pick up. Our Catalina 22 is quite tender, and would not want to face beating back in a 20 kt wind.

-Jeff

[trapper]

I sail a Cape Dory 22. When the wind is up and I head toward the boat, my dock neighbor (who sails a Catalina 270) asks if I am going out. I say, "I don't know it's blowing pretty good." He responds, "but she is a Cape Dory!"

When I arrive a strange marina the first thing the dock master says "Is that a Cape Dory?"

When I go through a strange mooring field on Saturday morning someone invariably shouts "Wow, look at that little Cape Dory"

Do they ever ask if its a Catalina much less shout "Wow, its a Catalina"?

I can't go back. I think I will always have a Cape Dory!

[Dean Abramson]

Jeff,

I think you will be quite happy with how a CD sails. There are many variables, of course. We bought all new sails this past season, and I was really impressed with the increased performance. At one point, we sailed in the company of a Bristol 45 in 6-12 knots of wind, for maybe two hours, on the exact same course. Overall, we edged out that boat slightly; it would pull a little ahead in the higher wind range, we would go ahead when it was a little lighter. The other boat was aware of our "race," and has a lot more waterline.

The difference with new sails has been quite gratifying. And I have yet to really play around with sheet lead positions on different courses, and often just leave the traveler in the middle. So there is more speed if I tweak it. I think if you set up your new Cape Dory well, you will be very happy with performance, and feel much more comfortable in 15 knots and higher wind than on the Catalina.

By the way, our first boat (a Seaforth) was on Sebago. You will be happy to know that the wind direction rarely shifts as rapidly on the coast as I remember it doing sometimes on Sebago!

Best of luck with it!

Dean

[SeaBelle]

Jeff, look at the underbody of each. Look at all the lobstah buoys. Which do you think will snag more warps?

For myself, I don't like my sailing trips to be diving expeditions, I worry about my aging heart and the frigid water and my lung capacity isn't what it once was either. But even for youngsters and those with wetsuit and tanks, you don't what that foolishness at night or in snotty conditions.

My $0.02

[jeffrey]

Jack,

I did have pot warp in mind as a factor. Does this keel shape really help that much? having the prop buried between the rudder and keel seems like a big help as much as anything else. My friend's Freindship Sloop has the prop off to the side, and we always need to be wary of lobster bouys.

-Jeff

[Dean Abramson]

The keel shape and the prop in the aperture make a big difference. I try carefully to avoid them, but a few times every season, we run over a warp, either while sailing or motoring. The buoy will knock along one side of the hull as the boat slides over the line. We have never caught on one, in about 12-15 years of sailing CDs on the coast. So far. Knock on wood!

I think the chances of snagging one are much higher when motoring, so I am even more vigilant then.

Dean

[rtbates]

I have two friends at my marina that own Catalinas. One a 30 the other a 34. One day it was blowing 15+ and I was out in my little 25D sailing off the wind with just my 130 genoa getting ready to round an island and head back up wind for a good beat of about 8 miles. As I rounded the island the two catalinas came around the other side and as I harden up so did they, about 5 or so boat lengths behind flying both sails. Off we go up the lake with both of them ready to blow by me. Guess what, after a good length of time and god knows how many tacks I was Further up wind than either. Did I mention that they both had crew and both sails? IF I can get my rail under I find that I can surprise quite a few boats. The next day one remarked to me that my CD sure pointed well in those winds. I was out pointing both 90% of the time. When the wind would go light and I would sit more upright they tended to close the gap. But as long as there was enough wind to keep my rail right at the water neither one could keep up.... Not to bad for a boat with a 19.5' waterline. BUT that's when sitting bolt upright. Put her rail in the water and the WL grows quite a bit.
CD are not slow given the right conditions..Light wind and sailing down wind is not what a CD likes for sure. But get a good blow going, especially conditions requiring a double reefed main and look out. There is a PS Dana at our marina and we both go out when the fall/spring northers come through giving 25+ and we have a ball. Everybody else for the most part says,"It's too windy"..
The fastest I've ever seen on my 25D was 7.4k with just the roller furler headsail at about 90% on a beam reach. Winds were recorded at 45+ by boats in the marina..We were the only boat sailing!!

[Lew Gresham]

I commisioned a new Catalina fin keel 30 footer in 85 and sailed it up and down the east coast of florida, plus many crossings to the Bahamas for ten years. The boat was very stiff. At 12 1/2 degrees of heel was best for me. I have buried the rail in heavy winds sure. Personally you are fighting gravity when a boats over that far, and you have to stay seated. I cannot speak for the ride doing the same in a CD 30, but I know they are somewhat tender. As for backing up the boat with the fin keel, it was like backing up a fork lift if you know how they work. I could steer the boat almost as good as going forward. Today, I would not buy a new Catalina, I just don't like the looks. As for the CD's, they are beautiful boats. The bigger the better. A real classic!
As for me and my TY, I am proud to own one.

[Maine Sail]

Having owned Cape Dory's and many fin keelers, including Catalina's, I can tell you that the CD's do not perform as well, or point as high, and are very wet boats in comparison to the higher free-board boats like Catalina's.

I also don't find them to be any more "seaworthy" or "seakindly" in fact due to the short waterlines they tend to hobby horse more than most fins. My sister in law got seasick every time went out on the CD, in swells, and rarely on the Catalina's. They do drive "through" the waves better than the more Cloroxy boats but can also be hindered by this in sloppy seas and light wind and slowed to almost nothing. The only boat I've ever been pooped in (taking green water over the deck and into the cockpit) was a Cape Dory. Due to her narrow beam she drove her bow into the wave instead of up and over it and filled my cockpit with LOTS of green water. I discovered very quickly that my cockpit drains were grossly undersized!

The difference between a Catalina and a Cape Dory is that the Cape Dory is substantially heavier and better built but the Catalina will have gobs more room and be a better overall performer. The Cape Dory has LOTS of wood (think hours and hours) to maintain and very restricted engine access (think of hiring a small circus freak). The Cape Dory is much better looking. Be aware that CD laid up the gelcoat way to thick and most CD's have a tremendous amount of deck crazing. While this is not structural is is a cosmetic PITA.

There are benefits to both! If it's aesthetics you want then a CD is the way to go. If it's performance, lower maintenance and space than a Catalina is what you'll want... Every choice is a compromise...