Furling versus Reefing the Jib

[Sea Hunt]

Here is yet another classic example of how very little I know and how very little I absorb in classes, Saturday races, etc.

A CDSOA member recently listed his CD Ty Weekender for sale. In reading about it in his prior posts, he stated the following concerning his jib furler:

"I have a Harken 435 furler. I am not positive of that number. However, the important thing to be aware of is, with some of the Harken furlers(like mine) you can not use the furler to reef the sail nor can you change the sail without taking the mast down."

I have always assumed that if you have a jib furler (Harken, CDI, or any other furler), you can always "reef the jib" by simply rolling up a portion of the jib on the forestay bar/strip (not the right word I am sure) and reduce the jib sail area by any amount you choose.

What am I missing

Please remember to keep your responses simple and do not use big words. As the Admiral often reminds me "I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree" (yes, I know, outdated by a month)

[John D.]

When the jib is roller-reefed, there is a lot of force trying to unroll it the rest of the way. Some furler-only units are not designed to resist that. I don't know what makes them different.

My guess is the reefers are more torsionally rigid, because the unreefing forces go all the way up the luff, but the resisting force is only at the drum. The furlers for asymmetric spinnakers have no luff foil and could not be used as a reefer.

[Neil Gordon]

I've never seen or heard of a furler that required the mast to be lowered. Sails can be lowered and changed with more or less difficulty, but there's no system that won't let you do that with the mast up.

[Dick Barthel]

As the Admiral often reminds me "I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree" (yes, I know, outdated by a month)

Watch out that you're not replaced by LED!

All I know is that my furler, a Harken model does allow for partial furling. The sail is also cut and padded to accommodate some degree of "reefing" while still maintaining reasonable efficiency. You can furl it to the tiniest of storm sails but I don't think their is much point in doing that given the big ball of sail at the leading edge and how high the sail is off the deck. I would love to have an inner stay for my hank on storm sail but that's not in the cards for a 25D.

As for your question about a furling unit that doesn't allow partial furling - you'll have to wait for a more experienced sailor to chime in.

Dick

[Sea Hunt]

Unfortunately for me, the gentleman who was offering his Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender for sale has decided he really wants to keep her. Oh well. That has now happened to me twice.

Anticipating over the weekend that I would make an offer on this CD Ty Weekender, I contacted Harken to determine if you could "reef" the furling system the owner had installed on this CD Ty Weekender. The answer is "no". Below is the email I received from Harken:

You are correct when you say that you cannot reef the 435 system. If you want a system that is reefable then you would have to use the 00AL system which has a ridged foil system that the sail can furl up on. I hope this is helpful and if you have any other questions please feel free to ask. Thanks

Rick Wilfert
Technical Service
Harken, Inc.


I remain in the hunt for a Cape Dory (Ty Weekender, 22, or 25D).

Fair Winds,

[Joe Myerson]

Sea Hunt:

That response from Harken makes sense to me.

I don't remember which number Harken furler I ordered (three years ago) for my boat, but it does have a ridged foil (with grooves for two sails), and lets me to reef as well as furl.

I've finally bitten the bullet this year and ordered a 135 genoa (I've been sailing with a working jib), and the sailmaker (Doyle) suggested getting a rope luff pad to help with reefing. Other sailmakers use a foam luff pad to get the same effect.

--Joe

[Ron M.]

Some of the older headsail furlers, Sheafer for one, were not designed to reef. The headstay was sewn into the sail. I assume thats why it was mentioned that to change headsails the mast had to come down.
________
OG KUSH MARIJUANA

[ray b]

count on rollerUNFURLERS to fail at the very worst possable time
most all of them are simply made to roll up or furl a sail and are not reefers
the few that CLAIM to reef do so poorly as a sail with good draft
when 1/2 rolled will not be near right unrolled

a sloted foil is by far better both to remove sail totaly
and to change to a smaller correctly made storm sail
and maybe a little better BUT STILL NOT RIGHT to use a emergency
reefer in a sudden blow

most things that try to do too many things do none well

and please call them roller UNFURLERS
because thats what they are known for
just look at any post storm picture of trashed boats
allmost all will have the sails partly unrolled,shreded, and the direct cause of the boat draging, breaking loose, or bashing on docks or other boats

if you must use a reefing foresail
do it like a main by tieing up the foot to lower the sail
and forget furling/reefers

and the non foil non lowering furlers are a disaster waiting to happen
that has no place on a boat where seamanship is valued

[Ron M.]

Anyone that leaves a headsail installed in a furler when a storm is eminient is asking for trouble - and will probably get it. Taking the sail down is done quickly, as is raising it when things settle down.
I have owned a CDI and my present Profurl and reef my headsail all the time with no problems. Tell you what.. a good furler beats the hell out of going forward and tying a reef in a genoa or changing headsails when the bow is leaping 8 or 10 feet and the wind starts to blow.
________
Buy cheap vaporizer

[rtbates]

count on rollerUNFURLERS to fail at the very worst possable time
most all of them are simply made to roll up or furl a sail and are not reefers
the few that CLAIM to reef do so poorly as a sail with good draft
when 1/2 rolled will not be near right unrolled

a sloted foil is by far better both to remove sail totaly
and to change to a smaller correctly made storm sail
and maybe a little better BUT STILL NOT RIGHT to use a emergency
reefer in a sudden blow

most things that try to do too many things do none well

and please call them roller UNFURLERS
because thats what they are known for
just look at any post storm picture of trashed boats
allmost all will have the sails partly unrolled,shreded, and the direct cause of the boat draging, breaking loose, or bashing on docks or other boats

if you must use a reefing foresail
do it like a main by tieing up the foot to lower the sail
and forget furling/reefers

and the non foil non lowering furlers are a disaster waiting to happen
that has no place on a boat where seamanship is valued

I all due respect that's a pretty dated response to headsail roller reefer/furler. 20 years ago I felt the same way, not today. Seraph's 130 will reef and sail very well indeed. It's a simple matter of having the right gear and the right sail with a luff pad and moving the sheet leads forward as you reef. As for coming un-done, I agree that when a big storm is coming strip ALL sails and canvas. Every time I leave Seraph I tie a line around the furled headsail at the sheets which are wrapped several times around the sail. This way one could cut the reefing/furling line and nothing would happen.