CD30c suitable for blue water cruising?

[blueridgebuilder]

I'm trying to identify a suitable sailboat for a couple on a modest budget to cruise the Bahamas, cross the Atlantic, the Med, and return to the US.

Would a CD30 be a good choice?

Would it be able to carry significant stores for two people and still perform well?

Are CD30s good performers in light winds while carrying their maximum load? (winds <10 kts)

Do they heave-to well?

Do they balance well downwind (trade wind sailing) or do they tend to roll?

If the weight of stores is too much for a CD30, what is the smallest Cape Dory that would be suitable for the trip?

Thanks for your insights, John

[Parfait's Provider]

Check out this thread about a CD28 that is circumnavigating:

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... highlight=

I have no info on what he did to make it satisfactory for his needs, but there are several Cape Dorys that have made ocean crossings after appropriate preparation of the boat and the crew.

[blueridgebuilder]

Thanks Parfait's Provider for the link to Fred and FeNIX. The CD28 with Fred's modifications has performed well, and what a great adventure and personal story.

There are others on similar voyages.

Russ Cobb on a Tartan 27 has crossed the Atlantic, done the canals of Europe, the Med, returned, then through the Panama Canal and has spent the last three years cruising the Pacific.

(Tartan27.org)

Dan Tucker has done the same on a Tartan 30.

All three of these solo sailors have had great adventures on modest sized sailboats.

Seeing others having the time of their life has led me to ask, what is a modest size sailboat that could safely carry two people on similar voyages?

Smaller boat, equals smaller budget, equals leaving sooner and enjoying it longer.

Would a CD30 be enough, or would it take a CD32 or CD33?

Thanks, John

[Parfait's Provider]

I think you are trying to split hairs and I can't help you. Maybe you need to come talk to some CD experts next weekend in Annapolis. See http://www.capedory.org/genevents.html for more info. I understand the luncheon speaker is particularly knowledgable about CDs and their history.

John Vigor also has some experience along these lines. See http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Small-Sail ... 0939837323

[Greg Kozlowski]

It is a personal preference, of course. But for what it's worth, I wondered about the very same issue of size when we were thinking of taking off. My conclusion was that for full time liveaboard ocean cruising a 30ft was too small for us. So, I sold my Alberg 30 and started looking for a CD33. During this search we happened to have a look at a CD36 and immediately realized that the 36 was just right for the kind of long distance, liveaboard cruising we wanted to do. In retrospect we were correct in our choice of size. The CD36 is a good ocean going boat with plenty of storage and living space for a couple and is not too difficult to handle in port. If the funds are there, I would, therefore, recommend the CD36 as a good size for the kind of cruising you are contemplating.

It is interesting to note that at 36ft, our CD is almost always one of the smallest boats in any marina with long distance cruisers.

Times have changed, indeed

[Didereaux]

Consider this you bigger is better folks. Yves Gelinas not only rounded all the horns in his Alberg 30 (read Cape Dory 30) but was so satisfied with the boat that he still sails it after more than 25 years. It might also be noted that though he could afford a newer and larger boat he does not feel compelled to follow the herd.

Sailors rate the boat, marina cruisers rate by comparing the lengths of their neighbors ...boat!

The question most yuppies ask is the wrong one...they ask what is the best size or brand? The answer that they are looking for is the answer to THIS question...what is the currently 'in' size and make of boat. It's all about appearances, not seaworthiness or suitability.

[Greg Kozlowski]

I think you miss a couple points. First, Yves was/is a single hander. The question was regarding a couple. Secondly, he wasn't using his boat as a home for years at a time as long distance voyagers tend to do.... We lived aboard full time for five years, for example. Thirdly, it's not just about seaworthiness but also about seakindliness, liveability and ease of handling.

If one has the funds for a CD36, it is IMHO certainly a very suitable boat size for voyaging for a couple. That size offers good storage and living space, is no problem to handle single handed if need be, and at 8 tons displacement has a very easy motion in a seaway.

That's not to say, that a whole range of smaller sized CDs couldn't be used for ocean voyaging... but, in my mind at least, a CD36 is absolutely ideal for the task.

By the way, the 36-38ft size has been the ideal size for liveaboard voyaging for a couple for some decades and it is only recently that this size average for voyaging boats has shot up to something like 44ft.

[tartansailor]

Personal Opinions, but I am with Dider on this one. There are sailors and then there are Sailors

As a corollary I vividly remember a business associate of my Dad's expecting to make a big social splash in Bermuda with his brand new 55' Annapolis built Trumpy only to be turned away from the harbor because J. Onassis and his myrmidons were in town and took up all the space with their 65'+

As with all things in life, "It's not what you have, but what you accomplish with what you have"

Dick

[Clay Stalker]

As we all know, length of boat is only one of the criteria for suitability of ocean voyaging. Design, construction, and skill of the crew are far more important. A seasoned sailor in a Flicka will be safer in the middle of the ocean than a newbie in a Catalina 40.....that said, rugged design and construction costs dollars, that's why a Pacific Seacraft 40 costs 3 times what a Catalina 40 does....that also said, a CD36 may very well be the best ocean boat available today for the money.

Clay Stalker

[blueridgebuilder]

A CD36 would be great, but it would take too long to save enough money to purchase one.

I can save about $20,000 per year and would like to start cruising in 3 to 4 years on a cruise where we leave with 18-24 months worth of expenses and we work while cruising to refill the cruising "kitty".

$30-40,000 total costs for sailboat ready to go (think old fashion equipment, paper maps, sextant, SSB receiver, used windvane, heavy ground tackle, good sails, hand held gps as an inexpensive concession).

A CD 30 seems to be the financial limit of the Cape Dory breed, would it be big enough to carry the load for two people and still perform well?

Thanks, John

[blueridgebuilder]

Perhaps I should broaden the question.

Is there a sailboat that I could purchase and equip with very basic equipment that will safely carry two people and their stores for $30-40,000.

I'm pretty sure this will be a sailboat around 30 feet.

Not interested in a boat in poor condition that needs years to rebuild, I would want to start with a boat in good condition that needs the usual prep work and maintenance for extended cruising.

The cruising area would be Bahamas, cross the Atlantic, the Med and return to the US. All sailing would be in proper seasons.

Thanks, John

[Clay Stalker]

The answer to your question is: There are hundreds. Here are a couple of suggestions:

Cape Dory 28 or 30.
Southern Cross 28 or 31.
Restored Pearson Vanguard with diesel.
Allied Seawind 32
Pacific Seacraft 27

There certainly are many others, but you should be able to find one of these readily available for your price range.

Clay Stalker

[S/V Necessity]

Plenty of people have cruised with the Pearson Triton 28. So I think the boat should displace more than enough. It's a tough question to answer though, cause what one person sees as reasonable another might see as intolerable, if not outright insane.

I *personally* cant think of any other common production boat that would clearly be better built for your needs and wallet. There may be equals out there, but not many superior. Also, I suspect many lesser boats cross the Atlantic each year.

Cape Dory's are VERY well built, and come outiftted with alot of nice hardware and goodies. In other words they will require less upgrading. And are therefore worth a bit more money.

We were shopping for Triton 28's and ended up buying a Cape Dory 28.

If you go to the sail calculator, you can see how they compare on some of the numbers. I would think the condition of the sails and tuning of the rig, along with the person sailing the boat would make up for any differences in hull shape (triton vs cape dory).

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

[Neil Gordon]

The question most yuppies ask is ...

How many does it sleep?

[Paul D.]

In the boat search realm I would add that though there are several boats in that price range that could be found in good shape, the CD's seem to be better maintained. The Pearsons, Tartan's and Allied's I have seen have not GENERALLY been in as good a shape as the Cape Dorys.

I don't know why that is. Perhaps, with their cult following, Alberg's absolute refusal to prioritize interior space over sailing and seakeeping ability, the use of this board and the need for sympathy for working on teak and crawling around small spaces, the owners feel an obligation to look after them? Additionally, I have a brother who emails me lists of things I need to do to MY boat at the spring Fitting out!

As for doing ocean passages in which CD. After a bit of work, maybe new sails and rigging wire and a wind vane. I would take Femme du Nord across the Atlantic without hesitation. The CD 33 is a great size for me and two other crew members, not perfect, but just really, really great.

Paul