I am considering trailering my Ty Daysailer (non-self-bailing cockpit/full foam flotation) to the Apostle Islands area of Lake Superior next summer for day sailing and island overnights. Am seeking advice on hardening the boat for bigger water. I will not be venturing outside of the islands into the big lake.
One thing that comes to mind is adding a manual bilge pump. Any advice on capacity/specific models? Any other advice for improving seaworthiness? Is sailing a Ty Daysailer in the Apostle Islands crazy?
David
Ty Daysailer/preparing for bigger water
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
David Hest
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Oct 3rd, '05, 13:11
- Location: '79 Typhoon Daysailer, "Miss Ty," Hull #21
-
Joe Montana
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Feb 20th, '05, 14:17
- Location: Ty DS "First Light" Essex, CT
Member 781
I'm not familiar with the cruising area you're talking about, but I would install a manual bilge pump whether you go or not. ( Even with a cover, some rainwater invariably seeps in. How do you get it out now?) I mounted a "surface mount" pump, about 12 gpm, on a piece of teak that fits the rectangular opening to the bilge. The hoses and pump slide sideways down into the bilge when not in use. I think one of the greatest dangers in open water would be getting pooped. This is a very deep cockpit! It would be even better to install something more permanent, like a deck mounted pump. These are great little boats, but they weren't designed to cross oceans.
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Let Your Imagination Be your Guide
David,
We have some pros who sail in the Apostle Islands. I've been there twice but am by no means an authority concerning that area
There are two things that I am concerned about. Have you heard or do you know if the flotation in your boat is sufficient to keep it afloat should you get swamped?
The second is since you will be in an open boat, have you given any thought what you will do if the monsoons settle in. Will you be sleeping in a motel, cabin or a tent, or sleeping aboard?
Many years ago I owned a wooden sailboat with a small cuddy cabin. Everything was wooden, even the mast, spreaders and boom. The foredeck and cuddy roof were covered and *waterproofed - ha ha
* with canvas and multi coats of paint Soggy doesn't do the description justice.
My brother and I put our heads together and designed a boom tent to keep rainwater out of the hull during the week. By trial and error, we made a crude frame out of wood and EMT electrical conduit that supported the canvas tent much like a cockpit length bimini. We taped mosquito netting to it and spent many memorable nights sleeping out in strange (to us) places. Priceless memories.
So give some thought about keeping water out of your hull and how to get rid of it when you have it.
Go for it. Good luck.
O J
We have some pros who sail in the Apostle Islands. I've been there twice but am by no means an authority concerning that area
There are two things that I am concerned about. Have you heard or do you know if the flotation in your boat is sufficient to keep it afloat should you get swamped?
The second is since you will be in an open boat, have you given any thought what you will do if the monsoons settle in. Will you be sleeping in a motel, cabin or a tent, or sleeping aboard?
Many years ago I owned a wooden sailboat with a small cuddy cabin. Everything was wooden, even the mast, spreaders and boom. The foredeck and cuddy roof were covered and *waterproofed - ha ha
* with canvas and multi coats of paint Soggy doesn't do the description justice.My brother and I put our heads together and designed a boom tent to keep rainwater out of the hull during the week. By trial and error, we made a crude frame out of wood and EMT electrical conduit that supported the canvas tent much like a cockpit length bimini. We taped mosquito netting to it and spent many memorable nights sleeping out in strange (to us) places. Priceless memories.
So give some thought about keeping water out of your hull and how to get rid of it when you have it.
Go for it. Good luck.
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
-
slaume
Boom tent and a bucket
When I was sailing our TY weekender I tried to buy a boom tent for her. I contacted the Sailors Tailor some where out your way. They have a web site. They had ready made boom tents for the TY day sailor but it did not fit the weekender as they thought it would. I tried it and although it was an affordable and very nicely made piece of canvas it just didn't fit the weekender. They offered to work with me to modify it but we decieded it would be best if they were to take it back. This they did and even paid the shipping as they had originally claimed it would fit my boat. These are good people in my book. It might be well worth looking into. If nothing else it would save the bright work. As for a bildge pump a small maual pump would seem like a great idea for general use. A good bucket and the scared guy to go with it would seem like the best bet in case of emergency. You could even carry two buckets if you have crew. It would be hard to find a pump that could move more water than that out of an open boat. Go for it, you should have a ball, Steve.
-
David Hest
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Oct 3rd, '05, 13:11
- Location: '79 Typhoon Daysailer, "Miss Ty," Hull #21
Buckets, etc.
Thanks, all, for your thoughts.
Getting pooped/swamped is my biggest concern. I agree that panic and two buckets for my son and me may provide the largest bailing capacity. But am considering mounting a manual bilge pump ahead of the bench on the port side as an assist. Noted a similar installation in a Rhodes 19 (also not self-bailing) in the Apostles this summer.
OJ: No idea how adequate the flotation may be. I could pump water into the boat to find out. Or perhaps I could find data on flotation provided by each square foot of foam. Does someone have, or ideas about where to look?
Re camping, boom tents, etc., camping on the islands (recently named a national wilderness area) or sleeping on the boat are both possibilities. A full cockpit cover I sewed this spring would provide rain protection, though would have to add mosquito netting as noted by OJ.
For those with more substantial boats, this may sound like a foolhardy adventure. This dream was fueled by a Ty Weekender sailer I ran into in the Apostles this summer. He assured me his Ty was up to the task, though a bit cramped. At the least, day sailing in nice weather should be realistic.
David
Getting pooped/swamped is my biggest concern. I agree that panic and two buckets for my son and me may provide the largest bailing capacity. But am considering mounting a manual bilge pump ahead of the bench on the port side as an assist. Noted a similar installation in a Rhodes 19 (also not self-bailing) in the Apostles this summer.
OJ: No idea how adequate the flotation may be. I could pump water into the boat to find out. Or perhaps I could find data on flotation provided by each square foot of foam. Does someone have, or ideas about where to look?
Re camping, boom tents, etc., camping on the islands (recently named a national wilderness area) or sleeping on the boat are both possibilities. A full cockpit cover I sewed this spring would provide rain protection, though would have to add mosquito netting as noted by OJ.
For those with more substantial boats, this may sound like a foolhardy adventure. This dream was fueled by a Ty Weekender sailer I ran into in the Apostles this summer. He assured me his Ty was up to the task, though a bit cramped. At the least, day sailing in nice weather should be realistic.
David
-
John Danicic
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:30
- Location: CD 36 - Mariah - #124 Lake Superior
- Contact:
David:
I have never seen a Typhoon Daysailer but have sailed a Typhoon Weekender in the Apostles many times for days at a time. I always considered her to be a fairly dry boat except on a beat. I imagine that a daysailer would have similar qualities with the exception of not having the cubby which serves as a small "dodger".
We never used the cabin except to store stuff, relying on a homemade boom tent with insect screens for cover and converted the cockpit into a nice big bed. We always slept aboard as there is no camping except in designated camp sites with permits. You should have a couple of anchors and a couple of 200 foot rodes as well as an anchor light. Also get a VHF radio with weather channels. An outboard engine is useful. Summer tends to have calm days more often then you would think.
As far as hardening her up for the big lake.
I agree with the bilge pump and buckets, but you should also get a good set of fowl weather gear. That water is cold no matter what time of year you sail. We only took water on in the cockpit once but would get a bit of spray now and then which makes you feel alive. It sounds like a TY daysailer is not self bailing? Is that true? Also at least two reef points for the main would help you stay dryer and on an even keel. It also helps to have a jib you can throw a reef in as well.
The islands and a CD Typhoon are a wonderful combination. You are a little out of scale what with all the big boats but you can go to places we can't go. There is also plenty of protection if you need it and a TYphoon will get you to it through the bad stuff. There are good docks you can tie up to and wonderful anchorages if you watch the weather. I will keep an eye out for you next year.
Sail on.
John Danicic
CD36 Mariah #124
Lake Superior
I have never seen a Typhoon Daysailer but have sailed a Typhoon Weekender in the Apostles many times for days at a time. I always considered her to be a fairly dry boat except on a beat. I imagine that a daysailer would have similar qualities with the exception of not having the cubby which serves as a small "dodger".
We never used the cabin except to store stuff, relying on a homemade boom tent with insect screens for cover and converted the cockpit into a nice big bed. We always slept aboard as there is no camping except in designated camp sites with permits. You should have a couple of anchors and a couple of 200 foot rodes as well as an anchor light. Also get a VHF radio with weather channels. An outboard engine is useful. Summer tends to have calm days more often then you would think.
As far as hardening her up for the big lake.
I agree with the bilge pump and buckets, but you should also get a good set of fowl weather gear. That water is cold no matter what time of year you sail. We only took water on in the cockpit once but would get a bit of spray now and then which makes you feel alive. It sounds like a TY daysailer is not self bailing? Is that true? Also at least two reef points for the main would help you stay dryer and on an even keel. It also helps to have a jib you can throw a reef in as well.
The islands and a CD Typhoon are a wonderful combination. You are a little out of scale what with all the big boats but you can go to places we can't go. There is also plenty of protection if you need it and a TYphoon will get you to it through the bad stuff. There are good docks you can tie up to and wonderful anchorages if you watch the weather. I will keep an eye out for you next year.
Sail on.
John Danicic
CD36 Mariah #124
Lake Superior
-
David Hest
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Oct 3rd, '05, 13:11
- Location: '79 Typhoon Daysailer, "Miss Ty," Hull #21
Thanks, John
Appreciate the advice and encouragement. The voice of experience is very reassuring. Your comments underscore my sense that foul-weather gear is critical for a safe and enjoyable venture with our Typhoon on Lake Superior. Even on a gorgeous day, L. Superior spray can quickly go from exhilarating to debilitating. Also will follow up on your thoughts on anchors, VHF, adding a second reef point, etc.
Your comment about scale matches my observations. My wife, our son and I chartered a Beneteau 34 in August out of Pikes Bay. Great accomodations, but I found the boat hard to relate to from a sailing standpoint compared to my Ty-based experience. Truth be told, I would love to charter a CD25 or some such, but the area charter companies don't appear to have boats that small in their fleets.
During a stop at Madeline Island I had a chance to ogle a couple of CD 36s in the marina. Was one of them yours?
BTW, in case any of you missed them, John has a beautiful collection of Apostle Islands sailing photos in the Sept/Oct issue of Good Old Boat.
David
Your comment about scale matches my observations. My wife, our son and I chartered a Beneteau 34 in August out of Pikes Bay. Great accomodations, but I found the boat hard to relate to from a sailing standpoint compared to my Ty-based experience. Truth be told, I would love to charter a CD25 or some such, but the area charter companies don't appear to have boats that small in their fleets.
During a stop at Madeline Island I had a chance to ogle a couple of CD 36s in the marina. Was one of them yours?
BTW, in case any of you missed them, John has a beautiful collection of Apostle Islands sailing photos in the Sept/Oct issue of Good Old Boat.
David
-
John Danicic
- Posts: 594
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:30
- Location: CD 36 - Mariah - #124 Lake Superior
- Contact:
David:
Thanks for the kind comments and did you notice that I slipped in the foredeck of my typhoon in that GOB piece? That could be what you see some day.
I understand the feeling about a Beneteau vs a Cape Dory. I think the comparison is like reading a paper back book vs a hard cover one.
We are out of Schooner Bay Marina, home of 2 CD 36s, 2 CD 30s, A CD 30 motorsailer and a peripatetic CD 33. You can tell my 36 by the cedar-strip nesting dinghy atop the coach house. Schooner Bay is just north of Basswood Island. I do know that there is a nice little Typhoon Senior at the Madeline Yacht Club which to my way of thinking, could just be the best little boat for island use. It is too bad that no one charters out the smaller boats anymore.
I read through the other CD post, "open daysailer", and learned about all the foam flotation that I am sure must take up a lot of your storage space. I know we were creatively stuffing stuff all over our little typhoon. I am sure you will need to be even more creative.
Let me know if you have anymore questions. And, as I said before, I will keep an eye out for you.
Sail on.
John Danicic
CD 36 Mariah- #124
Lake Superior
Thanks for the kind comments and did you notice that I slipped in the foredeck of my typhoon in that GOB piece? That could be what you see some day.
I understand the feeling about a Beneteau vs a Cape Dory. I think the comparison is like reading a paper back book vs a hard cover one.
We are out of Schooner Bay Marina, home of 2 CD 36s, 2 CD 30s, A CD 30 motorsailer and a peripatetic CD 33. You can tell my 36 by the cedar-strip nesting dinghy atop the coach house. Schooner Bay is just north of Basswood Island. I do know that there is a nice little Typhoon Senior at the Madeline Yacht Club which to my way of thinking, could just be the best little boat for island use. It is too bad that no one charters out the smaller boats anymore.
I read through the other CD post, "open daysailer", and learned about all the foam flotation that I am sure must take up a lot of your storage space. I know we were creatively stuffing stuff all over our little typhoon. I am sure you will need to be even more creative.
Let me know if you have anymore questions. And, as I said before, I will keep an eye out for you.
Sail on.
John Danicic
CD 36 Mariah- #124
Lake Superior
-
David Hest
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Oct 3rd, '05, 13:11
- Location: '79 Typhoon Daysailer, "Miss Ty," Hull #21
Typhoon daysailer/flotation volume estimate
FWIW: Made rough measurements/estimate of the amount of flotation foam in my Typhoon daysailer this past weekend: about 30-32 cubic feet of foam. Today's pourable foams provide about 60 lbs of flotation per cubic foot. Don't know if this applies to the foam used by Cape Dory, but if it does, looks like there is 1,800-1,900 lbs of flotation.
John: You are right about the boat being tight on storage. If this trip happens, it will be kind of backpacking venture anyway.
David
John: You are right about the boat being tight on storage. If this trip happens, it will be kind of backpacking venture anyway.
David
-
clark van galder
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Feb 27th, '05, 12:36
- Location: Typhoon/ Sarah J/ located-La Pointe,WI(Madeline Island)
sailing the apostle
We have summered on Madeline Island for over 35 years and have alway felt safe in our Ty out among the Islands.
The gear I always take include a GPS, a VHF radio, outboard, anchor, chart, sun screen, fly swatter, long shirt and pants( when I remember).
I would suggest you consider making the little harbor on Stockton your homebase and daysail out of there.
Stockton has a number of excellent camp sites which you could pitch a tent and camp. Then you could over night or daysail to the other islands, make sure you plan a stop at the lighthouses on Outer(weather permitting) and Michigan. Stockton has some great hiking trails and blueberry picking. There are full time rangers on Stockton and volunteers on Outer and Michigan. There is a Park service historic fish camp on Manitou which is neat. If you sail to Manitou pay attention to your chart.
Contrary to public opinion, we swim in the lake much of the summer. Look for an on shore breeze and you will find warm surface water.
Over the years we have noticed the closer to Aug. 1 you plan your visit the better the weather, that is, it is quite calm(er) much of the time that time of year on the lake. Also the storms seem to slide along the shore more often than not, except for strong pressure systems which you will have plenty of warning about. For your open boat June is not a good month. One year the ice didn't go out until June 13.
The city dock at Bayfield, by the DNR office is plenty deep to launch and reload your boat from your trailer without an extension. Bring one if you have it, you may need to haul out at some other habor. There is a parking lot there.
I would encourage you to come and sail. If you have further questions e-mail me; clarkvg@charter.net
Clark
The gear I always take include a GPS, a VHF radio, outboard, anchor, chart, sun screen, fly swatter, long shirt and pants( when I remember).
I would suggest you consider making the little harbor on Stockton your homebase and daysail out of there.
Stockton has a number of excellent camp sites which you could pitch a tent and camp. Then you could over night or daysail to the other islands, make sure you plan a stop at the lighthouses on Outer(weather permitting) and Michigan. Stockton has some great hiking trails and blueberry picking. There are full time rangers on Stockton and volunteers on Outer and Michigan. There is a Park service historic fish camp on Manitou which is neat. If you sail to Manitou pay attention to your chart.
Contrary to public opinion, we swim in the lake much of the summer. Look for an on shore breeze and you will find warm surface water.
Over the years we have noticed the closer to Aug. 1 you plan your visit the better the weather, that is, it is quite calm(er) much of the time that time of year on the lake. Also the storms seem to slide along the shore more often than not, except for strong pressure systems which you will have plenty of warning about. For your open boat June is not a good month. One year the ice didn't go out until June 13.
The city dock at Bayfield, by the DNR office is plenty deep to launch and reload your boat from your trailer without an extension. Bring one if you have it, you may need to haul out at some other habor. There is a parking lot there.
I would encourage you to come and sail. If you have further questions e-mail me; clarkvg@charter.net
Clark