Need an update on blue tape
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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cscheck@aol.com
Need an update on blue tape
I thought I understood blue and green tape by 3M after 20 years of using it. But this weekend, we put down lots of 2" wide blue tape, which said "Low-to-Medium Adhesion" on the inside of the cardboard core. I applied the Cetol and made sure to pull up the tape the next day ... less than 24 hours later. It still slivered ... left shreds of blue tape all over the deck. I was able to remove most of it using 3M General Adhesive Remover and a plastic body putty spreader, but it took a lot of time I didn't have on Sunday evening. What gives? I've never had trouble with blue tape before, except when I waited almost a week to remove it. I'm trying to avoid buying the 3M green tape, since it costs $20 a roll at West Marine. Should I just spend the extra money?
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
Oh Chris,
I still have nightmares from using that Blue Tape. I took a whole day to tape my CD27 preparatory to using Cetol. I can just imagine the job for a CD33 (if memory serves). I applied the Cetol. When I took the blue stuff off (well within the limit recommended) most of the glue stayed behind on the glass. So I had 1" wide glue tracks all over the boat. I had to get some sort of glue remover, with plenty of elbow grease and a lot of time to get it off. That was 3 years ago and I still find little traces of the glue in some spots.
The green tape is much much better. Frankly, I don't tape much anymore. The reason...with Cetol you have to get it up right away or your lost. Even with the best taping job, there is usually a flaw somewhere and the Cetol will get beneath it in some spots. Sometimes a rather large spot at that. Unfortunately you'll find out about it only after you take the tape up and by that time its too late to get the stain out. I carefully apply the Cetol without tape and carry plenty of clean rags with me. When I drip I get it up right away. Even though that method isn't foolproof, its the best I've found so far.
I still have nightmares from using that Blue Tape. I took a whole day to tape my CD27 preparatory to using Cetol. I can just imagine the job for a CD33 (if memory serves). I applied the Cetol. When I took the blue stuff off (well within the limit recommended) most of the glue stayed behind on the glass. So I had 1" wide glue tracks all over the boat. I had to get some sort of glue remover, with plenty of elbow grease and a lot of time to get it off. That was 3 years ago and I still find little traces of the glue in some spots.
The green tape is much much better. Frankly, I don't tape much anymore. The reason...with Cetol you have to get it up right away or your lost. Even with the best taping job, there is usually a flaw somewhere and the Cetol will get beneath it in some spots. Sometimes a rather large spot at that. Unfortunately you'll find out about it only after you take the tape up and by that time its too late to get the stain out. I carefully apply the Cetol without tape and carry plenty of clean rags with me. When I drip I get it up right away. Even though that method isn't foolproof, its the best I've found so far.
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
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Tom in Cambria
Green tape
Be careful getting green tape from the evil empire (West). 3M makes two versions of green tape. There is an inexpensive version which looks, feels, and works about like the blue tape except that it is green. Then there is the twenty dollar green tape that has a much slicker surface. I found some of the cheap green tape in the expensive bin at the local West. I pointed this out to the clerk and he said oh yeah this tape was misplaced. It scans up correctly at around $8 but it's not the fancy $20 tape in spite of being green. I went back the next day and some clerk had put the cheap green tape back in the expensive bin Caveat Emptor when dealing with the evil empire.
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Danno
Breakdown of various tapes
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/ak ... king_Tape/
the silver is suppsoe to be the best, but at $30 a roll-ouch.
the silver is suppsoe to be the best, but at $30 a roll-ouch.
The slick green stuff is "Fine line" tape designed for striping applications and the like where a perfect paint edge is required. The silver stuff (3m #225) is the stuff to use for the rest of your general purpose masking. It's expensive but it is worth it, imo. I used 7 or 8 rolls of the stuff on Dasein's exterior refit this winter with no problems.
There was an interesting discussion of tape on Tim Lackey's Plastic Classic forum. Click here if you are interested.
Hamilton Marine has better prices on the silver tape than West or Jamestown, btw.
There was an interesting discussion of tape on Tim Lackey's Plastic Classic forum. Click here if you are interested.
Hamilton Marine has better prices on the silver tape than West or Jamestown, btw.
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Zeida Cecilia-Mendez
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:18
- Location: Bandolera II, 1981 CD-33- Hull #73 Miami, FL
- Contact:
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Todd Dunn
Scotch is nice but I have had great luck with Intertape blue
This spring I masked my toe rails with Intertape blue tape ($2.99 a roll at my local hardware store). I took it up after 5 days and it didn't leave any residue.
I use the slick green tape all the time for masking on the models I build and have never had a problem with it. However, I do cut a new edge in with a very sharp exacto knife and a steel straight edge since the edges on the factory tape are a bit rough. I pay about $9.50 a roll for it at my local hardware store. I NEVER buy from West Marine unless I need something now and they are the only place that has it. Their prices are absolutely outrageous
TD
I use the slick green tape all the time for masking on the models I build and have never had a problem with it. However, I do cut a new edge in with a very sharp exacto knife and a steel straight edge since the edges on the factory tape are a bit rough. I pay about $9.50 a roll for it at my local hardware store. I NEVER buy from West Marine unless I need something now and they are the only place that has it. Their prices are absolutely outrageous
TD
3M tapes
Today I was asked by Zeida to take a look at this thread regarding tape issues. I have used many of the various 3M tapes for all sorts of masking purposes over the years. That does not qualify me in any way as to being any sort of tape expert but I can state what works and what doesn't for some applications in Florida's climate.
Being in Florida with our intense sun, UV, heat and humidity we are basically a good testing ground for tapes, especially when faced with getting clean removals.
Nathan's previous points in his post are correct. For masking on glass or metal for paint or brightwork applications #225 is the best for clean removal over a lengthly period. The caveat though is that your line will not be crisp and sharp. For that requirement you need Fine Line (#218) tape which has a limited clean removal time less than silver #225. Do not confuse Fine Line tape with the standard bright Green crepe type tape. They are totally different tapes. Fine line has a longer clean removal, Fine Line also has a smooth matte finish and it is a pale green color. It is considerably thinner than typical masking tapes. It provides a clean razor sharp paint line because it is highly resistant to solvents and so the adhesive does not lose tack along the edges allowing for bleed of the finish coat under the tape edge. It has a cleaner release than the bright green (#256) but it still is not designed for a lengthly outdoor exposure.
As for 3M's blue tape(#2090) that it seems is the main topic in this thread it is usually not a problematic tape for short term exterior use of no more than five days based on my experiences with it here in Florida. 3M has always claimed 7 days with it but that is optimistic from what I have experienced. I don't usually use this tape except for on single day uses and no more than 3 days strictly depending on conditions. The best tape for long duration is their #226 which is good for several months. In most cases though 225 is the most suitable but it is not cheap. The price is a relative thing, it's a bargain if you think about hours and hours of trying to remove failed tape as an alternative.
Zeida mentioned a 3M stucco tape (#3216) that I have been testing recently. It has proven to be a superior tape for clean removal for storm preparations or for many uses where typically duct tape is sometimes used. It handles much like duct tape. It is not a tape for masking purposes when painting or doing brightwork. The 3M stucco tape is bright red and comes in a two inch width. It is very similar to duct tape but it seems slightly thinner. Based on my initial testing results thus far here in Florida it provides a clean removal from metal and plastic after at least a continuous 7 day exposure. I still have a few test strips still applied to aluminum and plastic out in the sun and rain and high humidity. It retains it's grip just fine and yet still removes cleanly just as if it were duct tape but with no adhesive mess left behind when removed. Duct tape would be a major mess.
It (#3216) appears to be ideal for taping up locker joints, companionways, vents, hawse pipes and that sort of thing during storm preparations. I have not tested it on any brightwork surfaces as yet so I would recommend a test be done prior to using it on brightwork areas. This tape would not be appropriate for any masking duties for brightwork or paint work.
For long term tape overs to cover holes and things of that nature #4811 Preservation tape is what you want as it will remove cleanly after many months in the heat and sun but it is expensive. I used to use this tape for storm preparations but now I am switching to #3216 to save $$$.
FWIW - Good luck......
Being in Florida with our intense sun, UV, heat and humidity we are basically a good testing ground for tapes, especially when faced with getting clean removals.
Nathan's previous points in his post are correct. For masking on glass or metal for paint or brightwork applications #225 is the best for clean removal over a lengthly period. The caveat though is that your line will not be crisp and sharp. For that requirement you need Fine Line (#218) tape which has a limited clean removal time less than silver #225. Do not confuse Fine Line tape with the standard bright Green crepe type tape. They are totally different tapes. Fine line has a longer clean removal, Fine Line also has a smooth matte finish and it is a pale green color. It is considerably thinner than typical masking tapes. It provides a clean razor sharp paint line because it is highly resistant to solvents and so the adhesive does not lose tack along the edges allowing for bleed of the finish coat under the tape edge. It has a cleaner release than the bright green (#256) but it still is not designed for a lengthly outdoor exposure.
As for 3M's blue tape(#2090) that it seems is the main topic in this thread it is usually not a problematic tape for short term exterior use of no more than five days based on my experiences with it here in Florida. 3M has always claimed 7 days with it but that is optimistic from what I have experienced. I don't usually use this tape except for on single day uses and no more than 3 days strictly depending on conditions. The best tape for long duration is their #226 which is good for several months. In most cases though 225 is the most suitable but it is not cheap. The price is a relative thing, it's a bargain if you think about hours and hours of trying to remove failed tape as an alternative.
Zeida mentioned a 3M stucco tape (#3216) that I have been testing recently. It has proven to be a superior tape for clean removal for storm preparations or for many uses where typically duct tape is sometimes used. It handles much like duct tape. It is not a tape for masking purposes when painting or doing brightwork. The 3M stucco tape is bright red and comes in a two inch width. It is very similar to duct tape but it seems slightly thinner. Based on my initial testing results thus far here in Florida it provides a clean removal from metal and plastic after at least a continuous 7 day exposure. I still have a few test strips still applied to aluminum and plastic out in the sun and rain and high humidity. It retains it's grip just fine and yet still removes cleanly just as if it were duct tape but with no adhesive mess left behind when removed. Duct tape would be a major mess.
It (#3216) appears to be ideal for taping up locker joints, companionways, vents, hawse pipes and that sort of thing during storm preparations. I have not tested it on any brightwork surfaces as yet so I would recommend a test be done prior to using it on brightwork areas. This tape would not be appropriate for any masking duties for brightwork or paint work.
For long term tape overs to cover holes and things of that nature #4811 Preservation tape is what you want as it will remove cleanly after many months in the heat and sun but it is expensive. I used to use this tape for storm preparations but now I am switching to #3216 to save $$$.
FWIW - Good luck......
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Bob Condon
- Posts: 56
- Joined: May 10th, '05, 12:18
- Location: 1979 Cape Dory 28' Intrepid
Blue Tape Blues...
I had an issue with 3m BLUE TAPE this spring while doing my boot stripe.
Good news: 3M makes an adhesive removed .... which I did not use... I won't reward them for making a product that won't come off in 2 days ...
Better News:
Hardware store: get Desolve-it .
COmes in s spray bottle (12 oz for 4.99) - Buy a narrow PLASTIC putty knife
Spray on and leave for 5 minutes (I sprayed all 28 feet )
Use plastic scraper (and a paper towel) to remove the soft adhesive...
and wipe on the paper towel. (DO not use a paper towel to wipe because is just smears the adhesive)
After it is all removed with the scraper, spray again and wipe with paper towels... You now smell like Oranges!
I used another product (NOT GOOF OFF!) that was a citrus cleaner (yellow in color) in a squirt bottle which worked well EXCEPT that it was in a squirt bottle !
I understand that Cetol does attack the Blue Tape adhesive because I have a mess from 2 years ago that was not cleaned up and their is dirty spots next to my rubrails which I am slowly cleaning
Good Luck!
Good news: 3M makes an adhesive removed .... which I did not use... I won't reward them for making a product that won't come off in 2 days ...
Better News:
Hardware store: get Desolve-it .
COmes in s spray bottle (12 oz for 4.99) - Buy a narrow PLASTIC putty knife
Spray on and leave for 5 minutes (I sprayed all 28 feet )
Use plastic scraper (and a paper towel) to remove the soft adhesive...
and wipe on the paper towel. (DO not use a paper towel to wipe because is just smears the adhesive)
After it is all removed with the scraper, spray again and wipe with paper towels... You now smell like Oranges!
I used another product (NOT GOOF OFF!) that was a citrus cleaner (yellow in color) in a squirt bottle which worked well EXCEPT that it was in a squirt bottle !
I understand that Cetol does attack the Blue Tape adhesive because I have a mess from 2 years ago that was not cleaned up and their is dirty spots next to my rubrails which I am slowly cleaning
Good Luck!
Bob Condon
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John R
#3216 tape
This is an update regarding the 3M stucco #3216 tape. I have experienced new results with this tape in higher temperatures since back in June when things were somewhat cooler.
It seems based on my past testing that this tape would allow around a 7 day period before removal with a clean release. Those tests were in temperatures in the mid to upper eighties.
I have since had an opportunity to test the tape in the mid nineties and have found a different result. The tape after 8 days in blistering hot sun and 90 plus temperatures will not provide a clean release. In fact, the tape will fail in a situation under those temperatures and that time period leaving adhesive residue behind. I am planning to do a 4 day test in the same temperatures of 90 plus and see what improvement there may be.
I suggest anyone that tries this tape for storm preparations do your own testing in your area and climate. I would do the test with small sample pieces of about 6" long in steps such as a 24 hour, 36 hour, 48 hour, etc. It is recommended for only a short duration and my tests have been to determine how long it really can take the weather and still provide a clean release.
The point of this message is that any person using this tape should only do so after adequate testing in their local conditions unless you intend to only use it for very short duration in higher temperatures. Based on my latest results the tape is obviously very temperature sensitive if left in the high heat for days on end.
It seems based on my past testing that this tape would allow around a 7 day period before removal with a clean release. Those tests were in temperatures in the mid to upper eighties.
I have since had an opportunity to test the tape in the mid nineties and have found a different result. The tape after 8 days in blistering hot sun and 90 plus temperatures will not provide a clean release. In fact, the tape will fail in a situation under those temperatures and that time period leaving adhesive residue behind. I am planning to do a 4 day test in the same temperatures of 90 plus and see what improvement there may be.
I suggest anyone that tries this tape for storm preparations do your own testing in your area and climate. I would do the test with small sample pieces of about 6" long in steps such as a 24 hour, 36 hour, 48 hour, etc. It is recommended for only a short duration and my tests have been to determine how long it really can take the weather and still provide a clean release.
The point of this message is that any person using this tape should only do so after adequate testing in their local conditions unless you intend to only use it for very short duration in higher temperatures. Based on my latest results the tape is obviously very temperature sensitive if left in the high heat for days on end.
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
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John R
Warren,
Over 90+ degrees it has made no significant difference that I have noted. To elaborate, I can say that I have not specifically tested the tape in a full shade all day exposure compared to a full sun all day exposure. The differences between the sun and shade that I have dealt with came down to simply a matter of varying different times of the day which meant the taped areas received varying amounts of direct sun and shade. Some taped areas received full sun exposure all day. No taped areas received full shade all day.
My speculation at this point is that the ambient temperature is equally as much of an issue as the direct sun issue. There is a significant difference between my early tests when the temps were in the eighties compared to these new results with temps in the nineties. The original tests were in the direct sun all day every day for the full test period.
I am going to run new tests in these 90+ degree temps over a shorter period and see what the results are in comparison to the early tests in the 80+ degree temp range.
I have also got a new tape that is supposed to be a full 30 day clean release that is similar to stucco and duct tape except it has more of a cloth texture and is not glossy like the others. I will be running tests on that also.
Over 90+ degrees it has made no significant difference that I have noted. To elaborate, I can say that I have not specifically tested the tape in a full shade all day exposure compared to a full sun all day exposure. The differences between the sun and shade that I have dealt with came down to simply a matter of varying different times of the day which meant the taped areas received varying amounts of direct sun and shade. Some taped areas received full sun exposure all day. No taped areas received full shade all day.
My speculation at this point is that the ambient temperature is equally as much of an issue as the direct sun issue. There is a significant difference between my early tests when the temps were in the eighties compared to these new results with temps in the nineties. The original tests were in the direct sun all day every day for the full test period.
I am going to run new tests in these 90+ degree temps over a shorter period and see what the results are in comparison to the early tests in the 80+ degree temp range.
I have also got a new tape that is supposed to be a full 30 day clean release that is similar to stucco and duct tape except it has more of a cloth texture and is not glossy like the others. I will be running tests on that also.