Pre finishing exterior teak??

[Dave Brandt]

I am at a point on my project that I am working on the exterior teak. all the teak is removed from the boat and I have cleaned all the old goo off the mounting surfaces and sanded it.

So here is the question, I want to pre finish the teak before reinstalling it, what is the best way to handle the plugs in the attachment holes?? Is it as easy as sanding them in and applying additional finish??

Not to rehash this discussion, but I am thinking about using CPE to seal the teak ( it was quite weathered, but it is amazing how well it cleaned up! ), and then varnishing it with a two part varnish.

It's hard to believe, but I am running out of parts to work on!! Looks like we will finally get to enjoy the boat this year ( that is not to say that being wedged upside-down in the lockers sanding isn't fun.....)

Thanks for your advice.

Dave

[greg phillips]

Dave, Not sure if this addresses your question or not, but I find that putting a coat or more of varnish on teak before it is installed helps. Any bedding compound is easier to clean up if it isn't absorbed into the grain and prefinishing helps to seal the grain. I usually apply 8 or more coats of varnish so getting ahead of the plugs is usually not such a bad thing.
In handling the plugs, I try to have about 3/16" of plug standing proud of the surface. Look at the grain on the plug and try to have its grain running in the same direction as the larger piece as you glue it in. After the glue has set I use a small and very sharp chisel to trim the plug about 1/8" above the surface. I always try to use the chisel with the grain and watch to see if the grain carries the cut down toward the surface of the piece. If it does I cut again moving in the opposite direction to ensure the plug is not trimmed below the surface. You might not want to try to trim the plug flush with the surface but leave a slight bit proud to sand to the level of the larger piece.
Good luck.

Greg Phillips
Ex-owner CD25 Linda Lou
Seasprite 34 SARAH
Apalachicola, FL
Brookllin, Maine

[Chris Schnell]

Dave. We're in the process of removing and refinishing our teak for the 2nd time since we bought MADNESS III 4 years ago. Last year I took every piece of teak on our Boston Whaler off, took it down to bare wood, and then put 4 coats of West System Epoxy on all sides. That is the trick. You have to encapsulate the wood with the epoxy to seal it. Regardless of what you use, water into the wood is your enemy. After the West System is all cured you wash it with soap and water, lightly sand it w/240 grit, wipe down with acetone, and then I put one or two coats of Epiphanes Gloss Varnish. This adds another layer of UV protection along with some additional color. All this is done in my little basement/shop before installing. We couldn't be happier with the results. And the comments we get make it all worthwhile. I anticipate doing a light sanding (burnish it w/240) and applying a coat of Epiphanes once a year and that's it. My old CD25 hatchboard is still in fantastic shape after more than 5 years of continuous exposure. So I'm in the process of doing this to our CD30. As for the plugs, it's standard procedure. Install w/glue, chisel close, sand flush (you will take a little varnish and epoxy off), then do your 4 coats and follow with varnish. Here's a neat little advantage to the expoxy. You can actually put all 4 coats on in one sitting, so to speak. After a coat has begun to harden and gets sticky like scotch tape, you can put another coat on, and repeat in one nice warm afternoon. There's always something to do between coats, afterall, it is a boat, but this sure beats waiting for varnish to cure. I'm going to use my combing boards as an example of the process and write an article here with pictures, but trust me, this is fantastic. I learned this from a friend who builds wooden kayaks and skiffs in retirement, and this is the only way he seals and finishes his wood. Oh yeah, though I didn't remove and encapsulate it, I did use the West System on the toe and rub rail while she was on the hill last month. We'll see how that holds up in comparison. Good Luck

Full Sails and Calm Seas,

Chris & Dale Schnell
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC

[Dave Brandt]

Greg & Chris,

Thanks for the input, sounds like it should not be a problem plugging the fastener holes and finishing over them.

Dave

[Tim&Betta]

I am also in the process of finishing the teak - but tell me - how would you get all that epoxy off - if you wanted to or if you had a break?? tim

[Chris Schnell]

Basically, you will sand it off. And yes, it will be more difficult than removing varnish, but that's the whole idea. If it's harder for you than it's harder for mother nature. On the flip side, four layers of epoxy adds some strength so breakage potential is reduced. Of course the only teak that's broken for me has been one handrail. When I repaired it I opened the crack, put epoxy in it, screwed it up tight and then expoxied over top. Touchup with the West System is very easy. Fair it our slightly and then build it back up depending on how deep it went. Remember, you can add multiple layers in one shot by allowing it to get a little sticky then a new application. Finally, I add one to two coats of Epiphanes for additional UV protection and as a sacrifical surface. That is what I will burnish next year and touchup with, never having to go into the epoxy.
Full Sails & Calm Seas,

Chris & Dale Schnell
s/v MADNESS III, CD30 #235
Southport, NC

[Troy Scott]

Folks,

I'm resurrecting this old thread because the original question is also my question and it was never really answered. If I prefinish my teak before reinstalling it, will I be able to fit the bungs and blend in the finish? Or will it always be obvious that the bungs and the immediately surrounding area were finished later?

[Steve Laume]

You might find that you have to ream out the holes for a good fit of your plugs. I then fit them dipped in some varnish to hold them in place. The description of trimming with a very sharp chisel and sanding flush was great. I sand to feather into the preapplied finish and then build the coats back up at the plug. It is kind of a pain to deal with but I don't know an easier way. You could do the backs and hard to get at areas off the boat and just give the faces and plugged areas a couple of sealer coats. Then after fastening you could seal the plugged areas and build up all the show faces. Nothing worthwhile is easy, Steve.

[Troy Scott]

Steve,

I've probably worried about it too much. I had thought about the idea of putting on just a sealer coat in the areas that need plugs, just as you suggested. I think that's probably the most foolproof method. I'll proceed.

[Jerry Hammernik]

Troy,
When I did my teak with Cetol I finished it off of the boat and then put it on and did the bungs. The bungs never matched. It was horrible. I don't know if I did something wrong or if it was the Cetol. When I did varnish this year I didn't take the wood off so the problem wasn't there. Based on others good results the problem may have been pilot error. Use caution, your mileage may vary.

Good Luck!

[rhunter]

Product will stabilize and preserve the wood as well as provide a good "base" coat for top coat adhesion.I've never used it but the mfg.website and description is very detailed and informative.Sounds like a good product.

[Andy Denmark]

I have used Smith's CPES for several years and turned quite a few people on to it. It is the best undercoater for exterior varnish I know of. There are a few tricks to using it that make it easier than their method. It is most important to keep a good varnish coat over it as UV really degrades it quickly.
________
The way forward

[Russell]

I have seen several people coat with epoxy before varnish, it makes for a really great finish quickly, 1 coat of epoxy and 4 coats of varnish will give a look like 15 coats of just varnish. The thicker epoxy helps a ton with that "miles deep" look and seals the wood better and adheres much better to the oily teak then varnish does. But, as already mentioned, there is no UV protection in it and epoxy itsself degrades from UV exposure. So plenty of coats of varnish are still required, dont be temped to skimp out on varnish because it looks good with less coats, removing UV damaged epoxy will be a nightmare. So ultimately the amount of maintence required is the same.

But since some of you have the wood removed from your boat, its a good idea to at least epoxy coat the sections of the wood which will not be exposed to the sun, to get a better seal and prevent moisture from getting in. After my bowsprit was repaired I mounted some large heavy duty anchor rollers, before mounting them I masked off the area they were going and did an epoxy coat, since I wont easily be able to varnish there regularly. If I had all the wood trim removed from my boat I would do the same thing, as bedding compound fails eventually the wood will still remain sealed. Though for what its worth, even if not using epoxy these areas should have several coats of varnish before bedding down to accomplish the same thing. It was interesting on my bowsprit though, as I built up coats of varnish, seeing how the finish in the epoxied areas came out right next to the areas with no epoxy.

Ultimately I decided in my wood refinishing not to epoxy all the exterior wood, since you still need plenty of varnish anyways. But on my long term list of things to do is some interior refinishing, most of that is satin, so I wont use epoxy, but for the salon table, nav desk and cabin sole, I will use epoxy first then varnish since UV exposure is limited.

On the teak plug issue, I ran into that myself a couple of days ago. I decided to start refinishing my companionway steps, since I live on the boat doing them all at once still attached to the frame wasnt an option. So I decided to remove the steps one at a time and refinish them one at a time (I can manage 1 missing step at a time). Once I got them off the whole plug thing occured to me in refinishing. Personally I cant imagine how it could every look right, if you put say 10 coats of varnish on, then mount the peice and plug it, you will have to sand down all 10 coats around the plug to make sure the plug itsself is flush with the actual wood. Then to make sure your finish is even and clean, you would need 10 new coats over the entire peice, not just around the plugs. At that point, it no longer makes much sense to do all the finishing first. What I think would be ideal is do your sealer coats of your 50% thinned varnish while the peices are removed, then only 2 or 3 full strength coats, then mount and plug, sand flush and continue with the remaining coats.

[Russell]

Another note on epoxy, different epoxies do come out different when cured. Some slightly darker or lighter then others. This could have a dramatic effect especially after a lot of varnish has been applied on top of the epoxy. I would experiment on scrap teak with several of them. I know West and MAS both sell kits that include a small amount of resin and hardener that are inexpensive, perhaps other brands do as well. Its probably worth experimenting with these kits, painting your scrap teak and applying a about 4 coats of your prefered varnish to see how they come out.

[Shanna Paxton]

I can't agree with Andy enough about the merits of the Smith CPES epoxy. It works great, doesn't blush, and is easy to deal with. I have used it on my exterior and interior now and can't say enough good about it. Steve from Star distributing is also great to work with---just don't skimp on getting enough coats (4-5) of varnish on as the CPES has no UV protection.