Universal 5424 Model 30
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Zeida Cecilia-Mendez
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:18
- Location: Bandolera II, 1981 CD-33- Hull #73 Miami, FL
- Contact:
Universal 5424 Model 30
Would anyone have or know the torque specifications for the bolt tightening sequence on the gearcase cover for the above engine? I need this info ASAP if possible at all. Many thanks in advance.
Zeida
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Tom
Gear case torque
Hi Zeida,
Maybe someone will come on with the exact specs if there are any, but failing that here's a general rule of thumb. In terms of sequence you generally want to tighten first in the middle and work outward alternately toward the ends. This is because as you tighten bolts the gasket tends to be flattened and squeeze outward. If you start on the outside ends and work toward the middle, there is nowhere for the gasket to expand to and it tends to bunch up and create a lump in the middle. If you start in the middle and work toward the edges the gasket expands ahead of your tightening and when it get to the edge it can just protrude out over the edge as it expands. Think of it like rolling out pie dough. You wouldn't roll pie dough from the outside edges in because you'd have a lump in the middle. You roll pie dough from the center out in every direction and the dough just expands outward and gets thinner as you go.
As far as torque goes, people generally err in the direction of too tight rather than too loose. The idea behind a gasket is that you put it in there to stop leaks by filling in irregularities between two metal surfaces. If you tighten down too much you can crack the cover you're tightening and have to start over welding up the new crack. Generally you want the bolts snug but not beastly tight when you have a gasket between surfaces. If you have no idea what the torque should be, I'd start under what you think the ultimate torque should be and see if it leaks. If it does, tighten slightly and evenly from the center out and check again until the leak stops. If you get it really tightened and it still leaks, chances are your surfaces are not smooth and flat, and you might need to have the surfaces faced. You can also put permatex gasket cement on the gasket to help the gasket seal if you're not doing that already.
I'm not that familiar with the Universal M30 engine, but there's not likely a lot of pressure on the oil in the gear case cover, so you shouldn't have to tighten much to stop a leak when you've got a gasket in there. If a moderate tightening doesn't do it, I'd have the surfaces checked at a shop that rebuilds engines before I really cranked down on the bolts. The case may have been warped from the heat in the welding process. From the pictures you posted it looked like the surface was nice and clean and I'm guessing you cleaned the surface on the block as well.
If you took the gear cover off yourself, you may remember about how tight the bolts were from the factory when you loosened them. Did they come right out or did you have to put your weight on the wrench to get them out? This will give you a rough frame of reference for how tight they were from the factory and thus how tight they should be going back in.
And finally don't forget that you can call the local Westerbeke dealer who now sells the Universal engines and ask their service tech what the torque should be. Or you could call the Betamarine Dealer. Betamarine uses the same basic engine and the gear cover specs would be identical to the Universal, only the conversion to marine use is different on the Beta engine. And failing that you could call the Kubota tractor dealer or factory in your area, as they also use the same engine. A Universal engine as you may know, is a Kubota tractor engine that was converted for marine use by Universal. Universal wouldn't have changed the specs on the gear cover as that's part of the basic engine. And finally, don't forget that Universal is still in business in Oshkosh Wisc. They just got out of the small marine engine business to concentrate on large engines. The few times I've called them for information they were very helpful and the fellow I talked to knew the engine in and out. It's been 10 years now so it may have changed, but at that time they were great.
I'm 150 miles from my boat right now so I can't look in my manual to see if the specs are there, but I'm pretty sure they would be the same for all the Universal engine gear covers, so anyone that has access to any Universal manual can look it up for you to see if there is a torque spec shown.
I hope this helps, if no one jumps in here with the exact spec you need.
Maybe someone will come on with the exact specs if there are any, but failing that here's a general rule of thumb. In terms of sequence you generally want to tighten first in the middle and work outward alternately toward the ends. This is because as you tighten bolts the gasket tends to be flattened and squeeze outward. If you start on the outside ends and work toward the middle, there is nowhere for the gasket to expand to and it tends to bunch up and create a lump in the middle. If you start in the middle and work toward the edges the gasket expands ahead of your tightening and when it get to the edge it can just protrude out over the edge as it expands. Think of it like rolling out pie dough. You wouldn't roll pie dough from the outside edges in because you'd have a lump in the middle. You roll pie dough from the center out in every direction and the dough just expands outward and gets thinner as you go.
As far as torque goes, people generally err in the direction of too tight rather than too loose. The idea behind a gasket is that you put it in there to stop leaks by filling in irregularities between two metal surfaces. If you tighten down too much you can crack the cover you're tightening and have to start over welding up the new crack. Generally you want the bolts snug but not beastly tight when you have a gasket between surfaces. If you have no idea what the torque should be, I'd start under what you think the ultimate torque should be and see if it leaks. If it does, tighten slightly and evenly from the center out and check again until the leak stops. If you get it really tightened and it still leaks, chances are your surfaces are not smooth and flat, and you might need to have the surfaces faced. You can also put permatex gasket cement on the gasket to help the gasket seal if you're not doing that already.
I'm not that familiar with the Universal M30 engine, but there's not likely a lot of pressure on the oil in the gear case cover, so you shouldn't have to tighten much to stop a leak when you've got a gasket in there. If a moderate tightening doesn't do it, I'd have the surfaces checked at a shop that rebuilds engines before I really cranked down on the bolts. The case may have been warped from the heat in the welding process. From the pictures you posted it looked like the surface was nice and clean and I'm guessing you cleaned the surface on the block as well.
If you took the gear cover off yourself, you may remember about how tight the bolts were from the factory when you loosened them. Did they come right out or did you have to put your weight on the wrench to get them out? This will give you a rough frame of reference for how tight they were from the factory and thus how tight they should be going back in.
And finally don't forget that you can call the local Westerbeke dealer who now sells the Universal engines and ask their service tech what the torque should be. Or you could call the Betamarine Dealer. Betamarine uses the same basic engine and the gear cover specs would be identical to the Universal, only the conversion to marine use is different on the Beta engine. And failing that you could call the Kubota tractor dealer or factory in your area, as they also use the same engine. A Universal engine as you may know, is a Kubota tractor engine that was converted for marine use by Universal. Universal wouldn't have changed the specs on the gear cover as that's part of the basic engine. And finally, don't forget that Universal is still in business in Oshkosh Wisc. They just got out of the small marine engine business to concentrate on large engines. The few times I've called them for information they were very helpful and the fellow I talked to knew the engine in and out. It's been 10 years now so it may have changed, but at that time they were great.
I'm 150 miles from my boat right now so I can't look in my manual to see if the specs are there, but I'm pretty sure they would be the same for all the Universal engine gear covers, so anyone that has access to any Universal manual can look it up for you to see if there is a torque spec shown.
I hope this helps, if no one jumps in here with the exact spec you need.
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Zeida Cecilia-Mendez
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:18
- Location: Bandolera II, 1981 CD-33- Hull #73 Miami, FL
- Contact:
Tom, thanks a million for your explanation. I am printing it right now and will have it with me at the boat. I have finally located a NEW gear case Cover for my engine, and am thrilled. Tomorrow I will be at the boat removing all the oil and the coolant ahead of time so that when the mechanic comes on Wed. to remove the cover he does not have to lose time doing those things. Friday, I get the new cover and either Saturday or Sunday we should be able to put the engine back together. I do have a new gasket and will be sure to have all surfaces very clean, free of oil, etc.
Maybe finally the oil leak will be history!
Maybe finally the oil leak will be history!
Zeida
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Jeff Funston
In back of service manual
General Torque's are in back of the universal service manual, I agree in being careful not to overtighten and squeeze gasket out.
Universal 5424
Zeida,
Sorry I have the manual for the motor but it is at the boat and not available till May 14th when I head up to finish fitting out. I thought their was one online somewhere though. Try a web search and see if you have the time.
If you are still working on it after the 14th let me know and I will check my manual. Hopefully all will be sweet by then though. Not having done this job before, I cannot speak to the technique but the advice here sounds good. Torrenson Marine also has lots of experience with these motors and sells parts for them if you get nowhere with others.
Wishing you all the best,
Paul Danicic
CD33 Femme du Nord
Mpls MN
Sorry I have the manual for the motor but it is at the boat and not available till May 14th when I head up to finish fitting out. I thought their was one online somewhere though. Try a web search and see if you have the time.
If you are still working on it after the 14th let me know and I will check my manual. Hopefully all will be sweet by then though. Not having done this job before, I cannot speak to the technique but the advice here sounds good. Torrenson Marine also has lots of experience with these motors and sells parts for them if you get nowhere with others.
Wishing you all the best,
Paul Danicic
CD33 Femme du Nord
Mpls MN
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bottomscraper
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:08
- Location: Previous Owner of CD36 Mahalo #163 1990
- Contact:
Universal Manuals Online (From the Aloha Owners Site)
I found these manuals on the Aloha Owners Site. The second one has a table of torque values based on bolt size near the end of the manual.
Universal 5411, 5416, 5424 & 5432 Owners Manual:
http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/manual ... OWNERS.pdf
Universal 5416 & 5424 Service Manual:
http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/manual ... ERVICE.pdf
Universal 5411, 5416, 5424 & 5432 Owners Manual:
http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/manual ... OWNERS.pdf
Universal 5416 & 5424 Service Manual:
http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/manual ... ERVICE.pdf
Rich Abato
Nordic Tug 34 Tanuki
Previous Owner Of CD36 Mahalo #163
Southern Maine
http://www.sailmahalo.com
Nordic Tug 34 Tanuki
Previous Owner Of CD36 Mahalo #163
Southern Maine
http://www.sailmahalo.com
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Tom
Torque specs for gear case bolts
Hi Zeida,
You've probably found it my now, but just in case you haven't, I was at the boat yesterday and looked them up for you. The Universal manual says 7.25 to 8.35 foot pounds of torque on the gear case cover bolts. As you may know that's not really tight at all.
You've probably found it my now, but just in case you haven't, I was at the boat yesterday and looked them up for you. The Universal manual says 7.25 to 8.35 foot pounds of torque on the gear case cover bolts. As you may know that's not really tight at all.
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Zeida Cecilia-Mendez
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:18
- Location: Bandolera II, 1981 CD-33- Hull #73 Miami, FL
- Contact:
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joeb
you may want to retitghten the bolts after you have run the
Sometimes the expansion from the heat of running the engine causes the bolts to settle in- they may require a little fine tweaking.