Faced with spending $200 for a rebuilt Hitachi alternator (35 amp/hour), I am considering buying a new alternator of a different make.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I noticed Balmar 103 amp/hour alternators for $300 in the West catalog. Does anyone have experience with this brand?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
sailing@star.net
Alternator Recommendations
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Joe
Re: Alternator Recommendations
West Marine is deceptive in their output ratings. To compare output with your Hitachi, you need to know the output at 1500 rpm, not the 2500 rpm output given in the WM catalog.Stephen wrote: Faced with spending $200 for a rebuilt Hitachi alternator (35 amp/hour), I am considering buying a new alternator of a different make.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I noticed Balmar 103 amp/hour alternators for $300 in the West catalog. Does anyone have experience with this brand?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
You also need to keep in mind that Balmar buys frames from Delco and puts their own goodies inside the Delco frame, usually without much benefit. I have a high output Balmar on our CD 330 sailboat. If I had it to do over again, I would buy a Delco from my local NAPA auto parts store and save the money. We keep our boat at Robinhood Marine and I know of at least six CD 36 owners who have been using Delco units for over a decade with no problems.
Joe
tgjounal@gestalt.org
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Stephen
Re: Alternator Recommendations
Are these Delco units marine alternators, or just car alternators?Joe wrote: and I know of at least six CD 36 owners who have been using Delco units for over a decade with no problems.
sailing@star.net
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Jim Jones
Re: Alternator Recommendations
I don't think West Marine is trying to be deceptive as they are probably just using Balmar's spec ratings.
To the point, all alternators spin at a higher RPM then the engine RPM. They have a maximum RPM specified and will provide maximum output at this point. It is up to the user to determine max engine RPM and then select a pulley for the alternator which allows the alternator to reach it's max RPM at the same point. Alternator pulley is always smaller then the engine crankshaft pulley.
The main advantage oF the Balmar, Ample, etc. alternators other then higher output is that the regulators are external rather then internal. These regulators are much more complex then the standard Delco regulator for charging a starting battery.
They are designed to provide the three and four step charging process required for longest life with deep cycle batteries. They are fully adjustable so they can be used to charge lead-acid, gell and AGM batteries which all have different requirements. With temperature diodes added they can sense battery temperature and automatically reduce the charge current to prevent battery damage.
If you don't have a multiple bank deep cycle battery system, then the Delco or Hitachi is probably OK, but if you have multiple banks of deep cycle batteries, gell or AGM ( or plan to upgrade in the future ) then it would probably be advisable to look into a good high output alternator with external regulator.
Jim Jones
jjones@intergate.com
To the point, all alternators spin at a higher RPM then the engine RPM. They have a maximum RPM specified and will provide maximum output at this point. It is up to the user to determine max engine RPM and then select a pulley for the alternator which allows the alternator to reach it's max RPM at the same point. Alternator pulley is always smaller then the engine crankshaft pulley.
The main advantage oF the Balmar, Ample, etc. alternators other then higher output is that the regulators are external rather then internal. These regulators are much more complex then the standard Delco regulator for charging a starting battery.
They are designed to provide the three and four step charging process required for longest life with deep cycle batteries. They are fully adjustable so they can be used to charge lead-acid, gell and AGM batteries which all have different requirements. With temperature diodes added they can sense battery temperature and automatically reduce the charge current to prevent battery damage.
If you don't have a multiple bank deep cycle battery system, then the Delco or Hitachi is probably OK, but if you have multiple banks of deep cycle batteries, gell or AGM ( or plan to upgrade in the future ) then it would probably be advisable to look into a good high output alternator with external regulator.
Jim Jones
jjones@intergate.com
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Joe
Re: Alternator Recommendations
Aware that this will bend some folk's noses out of shape, they are car alternators. The famous Atomic 4 gas sailboat engine was, in fact, an unmodifed engine originally designed and built for the classic Ford 4 Mule Horse Tractor. There are those who are convinced (and will probably go to their graves believing so) that the engines were modified for marine use. Not so. Those who believed in the "marine myth," bought filters, plugs, parts, etc., from "marine suppliers." Those who didn't bought them from their local NAPA francise. They paid far less and got the same quality parts.Stephen wrote:Are these Delco units marine alternators, or just car alternators?Joe wrote: and I know of at least six CD 36 owners who have been using Delco units for over a decade with no problems.
Balmar has alternators with internal regulators so that's not a reason to buy them. They also have alternators with external regulators, as someone noted earlier. What Balmar does have, and is well worth paying the extra money for, is outstanding customer advice/service (in the computer world, it is called "technical support.") If you have any questions about your boat's electrical system, if you buy Balmar equipment, you will probably end up talking to the company president if you call them for help.
If you know EXACTLY what you are doing and don't need Charlie Balmar's advice, buy a Delco -- there is no difference between the two. If you believe there is a difference between "marine" alternators and "auto" alternators, you should buy a Balmar because you need the advice.
Joe
tgjournal@gestalt.org
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Scott Ritchey
Re: Alternator Recommendations
It's been a long time, but the last marine alternator I repaired had an explosion-proof cavity for the slip rings. Again a long time, but the last auto alternator I rebuilt did not. This may not be a big deal with Diesel, but it is with gasoline.
Assuming my experience is still valid, you really don't want sparking slip-rings in an enclused compartment that may contain gasoline vapor or propane gas.
RitcheyVA@aol.com
Assuming my experience is still valid, you really don't want sparking slip-rings in an enclused compartment that may contain gasoline vapor or propane gas.
RitcheyVA@aol.com
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Stephen
Re: Alternator Conclusions (THANK YOU, ALL!)
After reading your various comments, asking around, and checking with marine and auto-parts stores, I have come to the conclusion that alternators are alternators. The designation "marine" is really just marketing. There are well-built alternators and cheaply made alternators.
Also, I don't think the marine environment is any tougher than the auto environment. In fact, when I brought my 14-year-old alternator to an auto-parts store, the salesman was surprised by the cleanliness of it; he asked whether I had cleaned it. It got me thinking: I work on my car sometimes, and despite efforts to keep it relatively clean, the engine parts, including the alternator, water pump, etc., are covered with a film of oil, road dirt, and who knows what else. Not only that, but the engine gets wet sometimes when I drive through a puddle or need to get to open the hood while raining. Finally, I live across the street from the ocean, so my car breathes the salt air as much as my boat does.
My CD 22D's engine is in a compartment below the cockpit. Even in rough and rainy weather, it stays dry. In fact the only time the engine seems vulnerable to excessive dampness is when I'm working on it. The engine, including alternator, is much cleaner than my car engine.
So, do I want an alternator they put in a low-end GM car in my boat? Probably not. How about an alternator used on high-end Mercedes? Well, if the output specs were right, and I could afford it, why not?
So, my conclusion is, find a good quality alternator that fits on the engine (there are standard sizes). If buying a new alternator, I would probably go for an external voltage regulator, because it's more flexible (you can often adjust charging rates, etc.) and easier to repair or replace. It seems to me that alternators rarely fail. Usually the problem is with the voltage regulator. If cruising long distances, you can take a spare regulator, which is much smaller, lighter, and less expensive than a spare alternator.
Because I didn't want to spend money on a new alternator and regulator, I ended up replacing the alternator with an exact match. Imported Parts Warehouse (in Beverly, MA) sold me a replacement for $89. It has a two-year warranty. Also, the core deposit is only $2, so I kept the old alternator. I may see if I can wire it to bypass the regulator and perhaps in the future add an external regulator.
Thanks to all who gave their input! This is a terrific spot on the Web.
[img]http://www.star.net/People/~sailing/s_eliz1.jpg[/img]
sailing@star.net
Also, I don't think the marine environment is any tougher than the auto environment. In fact, when I brought my 14-year-old alternator to an auto-parts store, the salesman was surprised by the cleanliness of it; he asked whether I had cleaned it. It got me thinking: I work on my car sometimes, and despite efforts to keep it relatively clean, the engine parts, including the alternator, water pump, etc., are covered with a film of oil, road dirt, and who knows what else. Not only that, but the engine gets wet sometimes when I drive through a puddle or need to get to open the hood while raining. Finally, I live across the street from the ocean, so my car breathes the salt air as much as my boat does.
My CD 22D's engine is in a compartment below the cockpit. Even in rough and rainy weather, it stays dry. In fact the only time the engine seems vulnerable to excessive dampness is when I'm working on it. The engine, including alternator, is much cleaner than my car engine.
So, do I want an alternator they put in a low-end GM car in my boat? Probably not. How about an alternator used on high-end Mercedes? Well, if the output specs were right, and I could afford it, why not?
So, my conclusion is, find a good quality alternator that fits on the engine (there are standard sizes). If buying a new alternator, I would probably go for an external voltage regulator, because it's more flexible (you can often adjust charging rates, etc.) and easier to repair or replace. It seems to me that alternators rarely fail. Usually the problem is with the voltage regulator. If cruising long distances, you can take a spare regulator, which is much smaller, lighter, and less expensive than a spare alternator.
Because I didn't want to spend money on a new alternator and regulator, I ended up replacing the alternator with an exact match. Imported Parts Warehouse (in Beverly, MA) sold me a replacement for $89. It has a two-year warranty. Also, the core deposit is only $2, so I kept the old alternator. I may see if I can wire it to bypass the regulator and perhaps in the future add an external regulator.
Thanks to all who gave their input! This is a terrific spot on the Web.
[img]http://www.star.net/People/~sailing/s_eliz1.jpg[/img]
sailing@star.net