Talk about hindsight...I noticed some threads pulling out around the second luff grommet from the top of my '30's mains'l, thinking "Hmmm...really ought to fix that before it becomes a problem". Well, the next day, coming back across Lake Erie from Sandusky, we got some beautiful, hot, 20-knot winds...and I hear this "pop" from above...to see a triangular 18" section of clear blue sky through the hems of the main. I dropped it quickly, and sailed the rest of the way to Detroit on Gennie alone (still did 7.4 knots!).
Question: is the sail toast? It's old enough to be a write-off, but I don't have the scratch for a new main at the moment. I own an industrial sewing machine, and while it might not end up very professional-looking, I might have the skills to patch it (presumably from both sides?); if I do, should I buy a new headboard to sandwich the patch, or drill out the grommets in the old headboard? I'd really like to get through the season with this sail, but last-resort question: any references for sources of good, affordable new sails?
Till I fix or replace, I'm effectively grounded in the height of season...damn, damn, damn! Moral of the story: If you see sail wear-and-tear, fix it NOW!
Thanks for all advice.
Geoff
Brainstorm@unidial.com
Help! Calling all sail-repair vets!
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Matt Cawthorne
Re: Help! Calling all sail-repair vets!
Geoff,
I can't tell from your message whether the seams have come unsewn or whether the material is ripped in a big way. If it just came unsewn then re-sew and go sailing. Sounds a little worse than that, however. I have made my own storm sails and do all of my sail repair work. How I repair sails depends on how much longer I would expect the basic sail to last. If the material is good then investing time in a good patch, and re-sewing the whole sail might be worthwhile. Don't forget the hand work at the ends of the boltrope. If the material is old and really out of shape then a quick patch is in order to get the rest of the sailing season in. If you have un-filled dacron which has not been abused then the material can easily last over 15 years. I know someone with 21 year old un-filled dacron sails that still retain their shape reasonably well and he is not a timid sailor. You will go faster with new sails.
Replacing the headboard is only necessary in my book if you can't utilize the existing corner patches at the head of the sail. If the new patch overlaps enough of the patches at the head then there is no need to have it go all the way to the headboard. At that point any individual ply is probably less than 20% of the strength of the whole package. If you were going trans-oceanic my recommendations might be more conservative.
If you were going to remove the headboard and use the existing patches at the head then I would put the old headboard back on since it will have the rivet holes that match the existing holes.
There is no need to patch from both sides. The weakest point will be the seam in the original material. Doubling the patch will not help the original material.
Does your industrial machine zig-zag? I looked into industrial machines a while back and found that it was difficult to get one that did at a reasonable price. As it is I have an old class 15 Singer which zig-zags and will work well up to about 7 plys of sail material. It struggles beyond that.
Good luck
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I can't tell from your message whether the seams have come unsewn or whether the material is ripped in a big way. If it just came unsewn then re-sew and go sailing. Sounds a little worse than that, however. I have made my own storm sails and do all of my sail repair work. How I repair sails depends on how much longer I would expect the basic sail to last. If the material is good then investing time in a good patch, and re-sewing the whole sail might be worthwhile. Don't forget the hand work at the ends of the boltrope. If the material is old and really out of shape then a quick patch is in order to get the rest of the sailing season in. If you have un-filled dacron which has not been abused then the material can easily last over 15 years. I know someone with 21 year old un-filled dacron sails that still retain their shape reasonably well and he is not a timid sailor. You will go faster with new sails.
Replacing the headboard is only necessary in my book if you can't utilize the existing corner patches at the head of the sail. If the new patch overlaps enough of the patches at the head then there is no need to have it go all the way to the headboard. At that point any individual ply is probably less than 20% of the strength of the whole package. If you were going trans-oceanic my recommendations might be more conservative.
If you were going to remove the headboard and use the existing patches at the head then I would put the old headboard back on since it will have the rivet holes that match the existing holes.
There is no need to patch from both sides. The weakest point will be the seam in the original material. Doubling the patch will not help the original material.
Does your industrial machine zig-zag? I looked into industrial machines a while back and found that it was difficult to get one that did at a reasonable price. As it is I have an old class 15 Singer which zig-zags and will work well up to about 7 plys of sail material. It struggles beyond that.
Good luck
Matt
Geoff Safron wrote: Talk about hindsight...I noticed some threads pulling out around the second luff grommet from the top of my '30's mains'l, thinking "Hmmm...really ought to fix that before it becomes a problem". Well, the next day, coming back across Lake Erie from Sandusky, we got some beautiful, hot, 20-knot winds...and I hear this "pop" from above...to see a triangular 18" section of clear blue sky through the hems of the main. I dropped it quickly, and sailed the rest of the way to Detroit on Gennie alone (still did 7.4 knots!).
Question: is the sail toast? It's old enough to be a write-off, but I don't have the scratch for a new main at the moment. I own an industrial sewing machine, and while it might not end up very professional-looking, I might have the skills to patch it (presumably from both sides?); if I do, should I buy a new headboard to sandwich the patch, or drill out the grommets in the old headboard? I'd really like to get through the season with this sail, but last-resort question: any references for sources of good, affordable new sails?
Till I fix or replace, I'm effectively grounded in the height of season...damn, damn, damn! Moral of the story: If you see sail wear-and-tear, fix it NOW!
Thanks for all advice.
Geoff
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
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Jon Larson
Re: Help! Calling all sail-repair vets!
Geoff,
It sure sounds to me like you may well benefit from a visit, with sail, to one of your local sailmakers. When PERI was being actively used back east I used to bring the sails back to Ulmer every winter for a checkup and whatever else was necessary. On an ongoing basis, the cost was very reasonable and the sails were well stored someplace other than my garage.
Last year I brought the sails to a local sailmaker in San Mateo for their checkup and also to have the mainsail recut. Those sails are the original 1981 Ulmer sails that came with PERI and the main had stretched out a bit. The sailmaker and I talked about the cost of a new main vs. the cost of recutting the original one. He opined that the original material, while not as stretch resistant as newer materials, was still in good and servicable condition and the cost of recutting the main was about an order of magnitude less than the cost of a new sail, and quite reasonable. If memory serves (the receipt is in the file on the boat) the recutting of the main and maintainance work on the yankee was about $175. The recut improved the sail a great deal, though it was never a really great sail. But, here on the Bay, you get blasted about at hull speed all the time anyhow and I have never raced PERI, so the nuance that comes with a brand new full batten main just doesn't do much for me.
I really recommend you take all your sails, if you've not been doing so, to a sailmaker for a pro's review of their condition and need for maintainance while he does a good job on your main, assuming he thinks it's worth doing anything with it. After the sail is put back together again, then you can learn your thing with needle and thread and build skills on smaller maintainance projects on your sails.
Good Luck,
Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay
jon9@ix.netcom.com
It sure sounds to me like you may well benefit from a visit, with sail, to one of your local sailmakers. When PERI was being actively used back east I used to bring the sails back to Ulmer every winter for a checkup and whatever else was necessary. On an ongoing basis, the cost was very reasonable and the sails were well stored someplace other than my garage.
Last year I brought the sails to a local sailmaker in San Mateo for their checkup and also to have the mainsail recut. Those sails are the original 1981 Ulmer sails that came with PERI and the main had stretched out a bit. The sailmaker and I talked about the cost of a new main vs. the cost of recutting the original one. He opined that the original material, while not as stretch resistant as newer materials, was still in good and servicable condition and the cost of recutting the main was about an order of magnitude less than the cost of a new sail, and quite reasonable. If memory serves (the receipt is in the file on the boat) the recutting of the main and maintainance work on the yankee was about $175. The recut improved the sail a great deal, though it was never a really great sail. But, here on the Bay, you get blasted about at hull speed all the time anyhow and I have never raced PERI, so the nuance that comes with a brand new full batten main just doesn't do much for me.
I really recommend you take all your sails, if you've not been doing so, to a sailmaker for a pro's review of their condition and need for maintainance while he does a good job on your main, assuming he thinks it's worth doing anything with it. After the sail is put back together again, then you can learn your thing with needle and thread and build skills on smaller maintainance projects on your sails.
Good Luck,
Jon Larson
Cape Dory 30 PERI
San Francisco Bay
Geoff Safron wrote: Talk about hindsight...I noticed some threads pulling out around the second luff grommet from the top of my '30's mains'l, thinking "Hmmm...really ought to fix that before it becomes a problem". Well, the next day, coming back across Lake Erie from Sandusky, we got some beautiful, hot, 20-knot winds...and I hear this "pop" from above...to see a triangular 18" section of clear blue sky through the hems of the main. I dropped it quickly, and sailed the rest of the way to Detroit on Gennie alone (still did 7.4 knots!).
Question: is the sail toast? It's old enough to be a write-off, but I don't have the scratch for a new main at the moment. I own an industrial sewing machine, and while it might not end up very professional-looking, I might have the skills to patch it (presumably from both sides?); if I do, should I buy a new headboard to sandwich the patch, or drill out the grommets in the old headboard? I'd really like to get through the season with this sail, but last-resort question: any references for sources of good, affordable new sails?
Till I fix or replace, I'm effectively grounded in the height of season...damn, damn, damn! Moral of the story: If you see sail wear-and-tear, fix it NOW!
Thanks for all advice.
Geoff
jon9@ix.netcom.com
-
Russ Campbell
Re: Help! Calling all sail-repair vets!
I did a similar thing on a trip several years ago and just patched the sail while at anchor with some sail cloth I carried and hand stiching. I then reinforced it with my machine at home and made it through the season. Since it was the second time this sail had ripped I opted to replace it. I personally think it is better to replace it during the sailing season as then the sail maker can get to your boat and you can find out any problems right away and not have to wait till spring. By the way I got Hood to build me a full batten main on which they did a beautiful job.Geoff Safron wrote: Talk about hindsight...I noticed some threads pulling out around the second luff grommet from the top of my '30's mains'l, thinking "Hmmm...really ought to fix that before it becomes a problem". Well, the next day, coming back across Lake Erie from Sandusky, we got some beautiful, hot, 20-knot winds...and I hear this "pop" from above...to see a triangular 18" section of clear blue sky through the hems of the main. I dropped it quickly, and sailed the rest of the way to Detroit on Gennie alone (still did 7.4 knots!).
Question: is the sail toast? It's old enough to be a write-off, but I don't have the scratch for a new main at the moment. I own an industrial sewing machine, and while it might not end up very professional-looking, I might have the skills to patch it (presumably from both sides?); if I do, should I buy a new headboard to sandwich the patch, or drill out the grommets in the old headboard? I'd really like to get through the season with this sail, but last-resort question: any references for sources of good, affordable new sails?
Till I fix or replace, I'm effectively grounded in the height of season...damn, damn, damn! Moral of the story: If you see sail wear-and-tear, fix it NOW!
Thanks for all advice.
Geoff
As to repairing your sail check out Sailrite at http://www.sailrite.com/
. They will answer your questions and are really good folks. Good luck
Russ
camroll@together.net