Typhoon Angle of point on a beat

[Oswego John]

Oboy. We have tiller versus wheel as well as lock the prop or don't lock it. There is another factor that some sailors believe in.. They feel that heeling over increases speed by lengthening the lee waterline while others try to eliminate heel.

Helloooo!!!

O J

[trapper]

Sleep
I am member at Lake Murray Sailing Club
I have the blue Ensign which was there last summer
It is in the water at Windward waiting on deliver of the new trailer in May then will do some dry sailing out of LMSC

[Skeep]

Trapp, Fran? Lee? Ok now I'm tracking. Had me wondering for a while there, too funny. LOL

[trapper]

I would measure my angle the same way. Are you using tell- tales on your jib? When both the inside and outside tell-tales are flying on your jib, you should be at your max point. "Steer away from the one that is misbehaving." That is, if the inside is moving then you need to head down, if the outside is moving you can head up until both are flying evenly.

[tjr818]

Those tell-tales really do make trimming easier, but I think I'll return the borrowed Loos gauge, we haven't used it yet, but today we had some pretty stiff breezes. With a reef in the main and our 150 Genoa Slainte was "cruising" at five plus knots and we hit 6.1 for a short time.

[jdlomonaco]

All, this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own. For the benefit of sharing with others I thought it would be good to post the results of another trial. This time I went out with two other sailor friends so that I could look around. Wind conditions where somewhat higher than in previous trials about 12 to 13 mph (from my local wind station log for that afternoon) some higher gusts forced me to ease the main sheet. Using my 105 jib on a beat I found that the mast was straight, leeward stays had just a slight bit of slack, the fore stay had about 3 to 4 inches of sag mid way up (by eyeball), sail shape of both sails seemed pretty good (with a good bit of main vang and out haul), just a slight weather helm (5 to 10 degrees by eyeball). My angle tack to tack was again about 105 degrees giving me a 52 degree point to the wind. I am OK with this given that I have no indication from others on this forum that this can be bested (though 45 degrees would be much preferred). Finally we hit 6.2 mph on the GPS for short bursts once or twice but stayed mostly in the mid 5s. Just thought I would put that out there.

[Oswego John]

jdl,

These are only my personal thoughts. It's what works for me.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned sail balance. You got some respectful speed out of your Ty. If you were a dedicated racer, you probably would have a greater variety of foresails. You mentioned a 105% for a windy day test and a 155% for an earlier test with lighter wind speed. Something in between might be of benefit.

I think that if you had a little more canvas set up front you wouldn't have the weather helm. With the perfect sail balance, you might find that you had no helm to speak of, weather or lee. Every time you sail with your tiller not in line with the hull is like sailing while dragging your brakes.

Maybe, try sailing on various points with your tiller temporarily lashed dead center. Note where the hull tries to to go, upwind or downwind. With little or no helm, you should pick up a bit more speed.

Otherwise, just go sailing with what you have in the sail locker and enjoy your gem. Just don't race.

Good luck,

O J

[Skeep]

I so agree John. I respect Jdl for his quest. I share the desire, however, I've come to accept my place in the fleet, at the back, lollygagging with classic lines. As I've mused before, racing the Ty is like enjoying an elephant race on a sunday afternoon in India....there seems to be plenty of time for stories and drinks aboard too!

[jdlomonaco]

All, I made a couple of slight misstatements in my last post. First the amount of helm was, perhaps overstated. Five to ten degrees was a guess (as I couldn't actually measure it) it was very small. I'm sure you guys know that in the stated wind conditions it is not unusual, even desired, to have some weather helm. I was fine with the amount of helm I had. Second I said my mast was straight. I meant in the starboard/port axis. I have tuned the rigging so that there is about 2 inches of aft bend measured at the spreaders. So in conclusion I would say that I have gotten all I can out of the Salty Dog and that's what I have been shooting for.

[Skeep]

And yours is probably very well tuned. Mine is getting her bottom done. I keep joking with club members, I hope I'll gain one half knot hull speed with the new mono-urethane paint on her! Anything we can do helps!

[Skeep]

An appropriate time to jot a post here in that now I've replaced the standing rigging on Baggy Wrinkles and will do the "tuning" with all this wisdom above. More to follow...

[RLW]

, you want the best velocity made good towards a target to weather.

Often I find that "cracking off" when close hauled, and foregoing the highest point of sail, increases boat speed enough to more than compensate for steering away from my destination. Pinching kills boat speed, thus "when in doubt let it out."

[jdlomonaco]

RLW, OK I see this thread just won't die. But I guess that's a good thing. I don't remember writing the quote you attributed to me but I admit I am old and forgetful. I do agree that pinching up too high slows the boat but I believe the discussion to this point has been about pointing as high as possible with proper course and proper sail trim. As I stated in my posts before, my quest was to get the best angle to windward using these criteria. I think that 45 degrees to windward for a Typhoon would be great but the best I could do was about 52 degrees. I am happy with that after multiple trials so I have stopped my trials/tuning and have just enjoyed sailing the Salty Dog. (That is of course someone can tell me that better than that angle is possible with a Typhoon.)

[grluecke]

[quote="Skeep"]You take up a subject about which I believe all of us are familiar, Typhoon pointing problems." (How do you guys include a previous post in your replies? )


If there is a sailor alive that is not constantly worrying about pointing angle, I haven't met her...

My son got a Ty last summer, and although he really is a better sailor that I am, we were in relatively light wind, and he at me alive in my CD30K, if that makes you Ty folks feel any better...you can bet there was some blue air floating off the stern of Ocean's Poem as he came up from behind...

This is just for reference, but a while back I posted my GPS track where I took the time to generate the absolute measurements, some tacks as good as 110 degrees and some as poor as 130 degrees.

See if you can find it here : Post subject: Re: CD27 Tacking Angle

As an aside, I learned something about "heaving to" using this track--we floated back right along our tacking track...

[jdlomonaco]

grluecke, If I understand your post, you were getting anywhere from 65 to 55 degrees off the wind (I'm assuming on a beat). I have a few comments that might be of interest to you. First, 55 degrees is pretty close to 52 that I was able to observe thus far (on this thread anyway) the best reported angle. Second, I noticed you said "light winds". Remember that, within the limits of hull speed, as wind speed increase boat speed increases and the apparent wind would shift ahead. Thus a better angle could be obtained with heavier wind. I don't know what some would consider as light winds but to me 6 mph and below would be light, 8 to 12 would be moderate, 15 and above would be closer to heavy (at least for a Typhoon). My trails were in moderate winds. So that might be a factor here. Third, If I'm not mistaken the CD 30 is an Alberg design so your observed angles should be in the same general area as mine.

As for your son coming up from behind we'll just say he sold your wind and that he should respect his elders.

(BTW. I have been out in winds 18 to 24 (reefed down with small head sail and the Salty Dog performed about the same as in my trials, just wetter.)