Island Nautical Canvas - Cape Dory 25D

[Steve Laume]

Troy, I know they have aluminum tracks that the canvas will slide into. If you had a small central panel made at a canvas shop it could have the same plastic as soft dodgers and retain the zippers for opening. The alum tracks would hold the sides and you could have snaps at the top where it would be better protected. Maybe snaps at the bottom too.

A hard windshield that opened would be very cool but my main sheet would interfere.

I think you can get better shapes with cedar strip than you can foam core.

It would be much easier to get a well made canvas dodger. I am still not sure it would be as good. One of the reasons to build is that I have far more time than money, Steve.

[Duncan]

...It would be much easier to get a well made canvas dodger. I am still not sure it would be as good. One of the reasons to build is that I have far more time than money

Like Steve and Troy and Russell, I have ruminated on this a bit. I would never attempt a hard dodger on a CD27, because I just like the boat too much as she is. Even a soft dodger is giving me fits as far as looks go.

Sort of like a pretty girl in a sou-wester - she looks cute no matter what, but the hat...hmmm, that's a bit of a distracting thought.

Anyway, I'm not sure a CD30 could carry off a hard dodger, but I think maybe it could be done. I'm almost sure a CD36 is big enough to provide a little more room for creativity.

So, rambling on, my point here was just to suggest Bob Perry for inspiration. Here's a plan he just published:



If you are registered at Cruising Anarchy, there are some beautiful full-colour renderings of this design.

So, things I would learn from this are:

1> the soft dodger amidships can be steeper and higher because it's obviously not part of the permanent structure. It's an add-on, for a particular purpose, and it doesn't have to look like it is an integral part of the boat. I think that's why soft dodgers are easier?

2> the hard dodger aft is lower and sleeker because it is permanent, and not meant to always draw the eye away from the boat's overall lines. It's a 'feature' and it is very nice to look at, but it doesn't shout for attention. I think, if you look at the full renderings, you'll agree that it is extremely well-done.

3> people like Bob Perry are so good at what they do that I think they are worth their weight in gold. I suspect that many naval architects, given the opportunity to consult on a project like this, would be able to add a great deal of value to a project like a hard dodger, without charging a fortune for their time. I would love to see what Bob Perry or Ted Brewer would say if someone asked them what they thought of a hard dodger on a Cape Dory.

[Russell]

Steve L,

I'm with you. I really like the idea of an excellent hard dodger that suits the boat. The cedar strip idea is good, and similar to the foam cored fiberglass method I've thought about.

How would you design the removable center window? I've thought about flexible lexan or acrylic within a canvas "frame" that would then attach to the hard dodger using the same little twist fasteners that soft dodgers use to attach to the cabin top. But that retains a feature of soft dodgers that I don't like. There must be a better way....

Foam cored fibreglass is the method I consider most. While the RH36 posted does look nice, I dont want teak to varnish, and I would prever to avoid hard angles as much as possible. But too curved and organic looking you risk looking like somethign that should be sailing through outerspace, rather then water. Using the RH36 posted, I think the top has a nice curve to it, obviously it has to be angular to some degree on the front if you are going to use unflexible material for the "glass", like real glass. So I think I would go with clear lexan for the glass (or whatever product is best, not somethign I have researched yet) to allow some curvature. Granted I would be accepting that in the future it will get scratched and need replacement, but thats somethign I would accept, the clear plastic in soft dodgers scratches as well. I think I would also sacrafice a little visibility on the front far outboard sides, where the front and sides meet, to allow a larger and thus more gracefully curved frame there.

For the frame, material wise, I would most certainly use cooza http://www.coosacomposites.com/ I recently used this for my cabin sole replacement (for the subfloor, with 3/8" teak over top). It weights a lot less then plywood, with much more strength. You can work with it just like plywood in most situations, and it will never rot. It wouldnt need heavy fibreglass layup overtop, in fact you could just cover it with epoxy and fare it (though I would certainly tab joints together). A big concern with fibreglass is weight, I saw a boat that had a solid fibreglass dodger built and it weighted a ton and caused the boat to squat after it was installed.

The windows certain need to be openable, I think hinged at top opening outward is the most attractive way to do it, with a locking support arm (like on hatches). If the traveler gets in the way, particularly on the middle window, parhaps spliting it in half would help and only the top half opens. Though worst case, I would not be totally opposed to outright removable panels, part of the dodger design can include a space in the top of the dodger that the removed panels slide into for storwage.

[Troy Scott]

My sincere apologies for helping hi-jack this thread! But I'm learning a lot!

I've worked with both wood and foam. They are both "plastics". One is "nature's plastic". I'm comfortable with both. I believe a dodger made from 5 pound foam and covered with two layers of 7781 fiberglass each side would be about as light as I could build a sturdy dodger. I would replace the foam core with either 40 pound foam or something similar everywhere hardware needs to penetrate, and add extra glass in those locations as well. None of this is difficult. The hard part is achieving good, flowing lines that will look right on the boat.

[barfwinkle]

Hey who stole my thread

[Troy Scott]

Hi Bill,

You'll be fine with the IN dodger. With a dodger, of course the initial measurements are important, but the INSTALLATION is what will make-or-break your dodger experience. Just one example: The worst thing I see is that the hardware on the deck is often just screwed into the outer glass and into a little of the balsa core, and not well sealed. Over time, those tiny leaks into the core can destroy the deck!

[bhartley]

Back to the 25D specifically...

Our dodger isn't too high, but the boom does brush the forward and aft bows. There is extra suede/leather chafe guard in both areas. We have an adjustable topping lift so I usually keep it tensioned so it just brushed the top if at all.

I REALLY like the design of our removable side panels (see picture on first page). They are almost entirely Strataglass so visibility is not obscured when they are installed. So many just have a tiny "window". Our dodger has Strataglass all of the windows which I would probably have been too cheap to use if it hadn't come with that way. It helps enormously to eliminate the poor visibility complaints people have.

Bly

[Troy Scott]

Bill, Bly and All,
I have noticed that most (all?) of the IN dodgers have those small round windows on the sides. Maybe that's their trademark? It does seem unnecessarily limiting. I like the idea of a lot more glass (strataglas...). I also like the extra panels that can be installed to cover any or all of the windows.

[Dean Abramson]

I recommend that you build your dodger so that you can see over it while standing at the helm.

Our dodger has been a super addition. We eat dinner in the cockpit much more than before. Up this way, once the sun starts to set, even a light breeze can be pretty chilly.

And for going to windward, it's awesome. We do not all sail in warm climates; spray up here is cold.

I had ours done with minimal side "glass" (just a round port on each side), so the dodger also offers shade on hot days unless the sun is aft.

It's one of the best things we have added to our boat. Go for it.

Dean

[trapper]

Bill,

I have been interested for some time in getting a dodger for Saga. She has a large bimini.

Island Nautical says that the top of the dodger is 6.1 feet from the sole of the cockpit. To put something that high on Saga, the boom would have to be raised.

Here are a few pics of Saga with her bimini. There is no where near 6 feet height under that bimini and it is only inches from the boom. I have not measured it but I am 5'2" and I cannot fully standup.

Given the color and condition of the bimini and other canvas when I got Saga, I believe the bimini poles to be pretty much the same age as the boat. I have what i think are original sails and the luff appears to be correct on the boat.

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14 ... 010031.jpg

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14 ... y10136.jpg

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14 ... y10009.jpg


Did you see the pics of the boat Cricket under the for sale board. Her boom has to be further up the mast from the deck than Saga's. Raising the boom would mean new main sail, at a minimum. I dont know how that would work.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hey who stole my thread

Hi Bill,

Aren't there any local canvas shops? I know you're out in OK, but with all those lakes, and powerboaters, there should be a canvas shop near to a lake. If they can make biminis for the powerboats, they should be able to make a dodger for you. Have you tried contacting Boatman's in Oklahoma City, 405-495-1212? Or Dino's Custom Canvas also in Oklahoma City, 405-670-2230 .

http://www.boatmansokc.com/

Anyway, give them a call. What have you go to lose?

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
PS: By the way, a dodger should never be so high that it interferes with the boom or running rigging in any way, shape or form. So when the boat is measured for the dodger, make sure the boom is positioned where it is while you're sailing. And make sure the sides of the dodger aren't so long that they interfere with the cleats for the headsail sheets.