This bulletin board, hosted by the CDSOA, Inc., is the on-line meeting place for all Cape Dory owners and groups. We welcome everyone's questions, answers and comments about Cape Dory sailboat
Check out Alex Seal. One of the better boatyards here is using it almost exclusively for high gloss, high durability coating. It is a definite improvement over Awlgrip, IMO.
They make a full line of fillers, sealers, primers, etc., all compatible. Prices are comparable to Awlgrip. It is important to follow their directions which are different from anything you've ever used before --- not more difficult but simply not the same.
Andy
Andy, How would Alex Seal compare with Imron?
Thanks! -michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL +30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
In 2004 we had the topsides and deck of Como No painted with AWLCRAFT 2000. An epoxy primer was sprayed first, then sanded and the Awlcraft sprayed. Non skid areas had Awlgrip beads, or grit added. The gloss was great and fairly durable. It is repairable and buffable. Alas it is time to repaint due to abrasions suffered while cruising in difficult places. But, it still looks good from 10 feet.
I would use the same product again. Had we not been world cruising and only using the boat seasonally I am certain that it would still look new. Not even gelcoat holds up to some of the abrasion that occurrs from Med Mooring in the Med. Look at the topsides of European boats that stay in that part of the world and you will usually be able to pick out the dull areas along the broadest areas of the hull---despite the use of fenders. Fenders abrade.
Well I've been practicing and learning. I have bought Perfection, Brightside, and Epifanes Monourethane, and the associated primers. I've bought good natural brushes, good foam rollers and good foam brushes. I'm trying to work up my technique for roll-and-tip. By the way, I did get control of the fisheyes problem. I learned that if I start my cleaning regimen with SOFT SCRUB, the fisheyes don't happen. I also learned that the various primers seem to make little if any difference compared to just putting the finish paint directly on well cleaned and finely sanded gelcoat.
So far, I will have to admit that Perfection not only handles the best, but it's a much tougher paint that the single-part paints. However, I can see that I'm NOT likely to get the finish I want without some color sanding, which is of course is NOT an option after the final coat of Perfection. Also, I definitely want to be able to just polish this paint and keep going several years down the road, which is also not an option with Perfection... (or is it?) I would order some Awlcraft 2000 to try, but the instructions specifically say "MUST BE SPRAYED". I have found Imron MS600 instructions which allow for brushing, though they don't really recommend it. At least they admit it's possible. But when I went to the local DuPont dealer, I discovered they don't have ready access to the marine paints! Even their DISTRIBUTOR had to be educated about the existence of this paint. To make a long story short, I haven't been able to figure out how to order a quart of the stuff in order to just try it. Any suggestions?
How about Nason? Does this two-part single-stage fit the bill for ease of handling and repairability? At least I can buy it locally.....
Folks, I really want to figure out this roll and tip thing, but preliminary results indicate I may need to resort to spraying. If I do I may bring in an experienced sprayer for the final coat. Thoughts?
After re-reading this informative thread, I see that one of my posts reflects that I missed some of your comments, early in the thread, regarding roll-and-tip MS600. I wonder if you've come across any new information in the last six months about rolling and tipping MS600.
Ron M.,
On 4-23-10 you wrote that you found Perfection to be repairable. I'm anxious to know more about that! As I've learned, repair, if even possible, is at best tricky. Please share your method for repairing Perfection, especially how you blend the repair into the surrounding original paint without destroying the thin hard shell.
Folks,
You may be interested in this recent exchange between me and Interlux technical support re my experience with Perfection. I'm not sharing this to be in any way attacking Interlux, their technical support or anyone else. I just want you all to know what I've learned. Maybe I should have studied more before I bought Perfection. I did know about the basic difference between acrylic urethanes and polyester polyurethanes. But I WAS surprised to discover that this supposedly DIY paint, with a name like "Perfection" and such a nice factory demonstration video, would be, according to the factory, unrepairable, and that this feature would be ignored in the marketing. Here is the exchange:
Tuesday, May 25, 2010 12:51 PM
To: Interlux Technical Service
Subject: Perfection problem
Folks, I bought Perfection for my CD36 sailboat. This paint is
promoted as a DIY paint, and there are scenes in the Interlux
demonstration video where the paint is being applied outdoors. I have
discovered that it is not possible, short of working in a "clean
room",to avoid tiny bits of dust settling into the paint as it dries.
This would not be a problem if I could somehow remove these "nibs"
when the paint has dried. Today I spoke with tech support at
yachtpaint.com, and I was told that the only solution is to sand and repaint. This is unacceptable, as it simply continues the never ending cycle. There should be a way to smooth over these tiny but numerous imperfections in this "Perfection" paint. Thoughts?
response:
Good Afternoon Troy,
Unfortunately I am afraid to say, but once Perfection has been applied
and has hardened up, there really is no safe way to remove imperfections (dust/dirt/runs/sands/bugs) without effecting the coating. Ideally you would need to sand off all the imperfections and then recoat the surface. Perfection is a polyurethane based coating and as it begins to cure the resin floats to the top, then hardens up and acts as the gloss. If you were to wet sand/buff/polish the coating, you will actually be reducing the level/build of the resin which in turn will begin to reduce the level of gloss in turn providing an uneven appearance as well as reducing the integrity/life of the coating. Once you've begun to reduce the gloss there is no way to bring the level of gloss back up and ultimately would require an additional coat of paint in the near future. Due to this negative effect on the coat of Perfection we would not recommend trying to remove the surface imperfections while leaving final coat as is. You can certainly try and attempt to remove the imperfections, however I would anticipate on seeing an uneven surface as well as planning on recoating the surface in the near future. I apologize for any inconvenience and hope this helps to clarify any questions or concerns.
Regards,
Jay
Jay,
Thanks. I suspected as much. It would be appropriate to make sure
customers understand this "feature" of Perfection before they invest
hundreds of dollars in the system.
-Troy
HI Troy,
Not a problem at all and glad we could help.
Regards,
Jay
-end of the discussion-
Folks,
Now I have enough Perfection in three colors to paint my boat, but I don't want to use it. After many attempts, I've come fairly close to "Perfection", and I believe I could get the paint on the boat in a way that would look "pretty good" to most people. But then there is the lack of repairability and the fact that I can't polish it five to ten years from now...
I've had conversations with Dupont people regarding the roll-and-tip version of MS600, but these have been discouraging. I want to buy a small amount of MS600 and try it, but right now I'm tired of all this.
I guess that Perfection is not perfection. Real bummer.
I was wondering if it is possible to spray the boat inside your hangar.
When we used to spray indoors, we would take a garden hose and spray water all over the place, on floors, walls, tool benches, everywhere to eliminate dust. We would put a sign on the outside of the doors saying *KEEP OUT - SPRAYING GOING ON". Knowing human inquisitiveness, we would dead bolt the doors from the inside so no one would blunder in and maybe ruin the paint job.
We did use an exhaust fan system to maintain negative air pressure in the spray area.
I am almost too embarrassed to mention this, but one time I wanted to experiment spraying my hull. Sixteen years ago, 1994, I bought a gallon of Benjamin Moore High Luster house paint, thinned it out to sprayable consistency, and applied it to my hull.
The secret was to apply at least two coats and let the last coat flash. The $23.00 paint job is still hanging in there, obviously with less sheen now, but still presentable.
I don't expect anyone to try what I did. I was merely proving a point to myself.
Troy, good luck with your project. Say hi to Madison for me.
I already knew, and have recently been thoroughly reminded, that paint can be complicated. Painting the bilge with one part paint is relatively simple. Getting the deck and topsides right in a way that will LAST is quite another. Not a problem if you're like some of my neighbors, who just wave the magic wand (translates $$$$) and it happens. Big problem if you're like me and only have the nice things that you struggle for yourself. Right now I just want a simple thing: topsides paint that will allow me to make the occasional mistake and recover, won't poison me, and will look great for a LONG time. But it's not so simple......
Russell,
Yes, I did understand. And it helps to know I have friends here, especially when things aren't going so well. In fact, I'm about to try something new. I don't want to talk about it yet. If It works well I'll tell the world. If it's a flop it'll be my secret.
