How much chain can be manually lifted, comfortably?

[Duncan]

This discussion has been very interesting and enlightening to me - it's a great time of year to plan things.

So far, the idea of a chain stopper seems excellent. I have struggled a bit in heavy swells, and now I can picture just how one would have helped. Installing a bow roller and a chain stopper are therefore my own priorities this time around. Changing the 60' of 3/8 chain for 120' of 5/16ths sounds like a pretty good idea, so far, too.

I don't think I will go all the way to installing a windlass this spring, but if I was, I think I would like a vertical (i.e. low-profile) one, with a rope/chain gypsy. Given the time and expense of installing, I think a powered windlass with a manual back-up makes more sense than a pure manual one.

By the way, I have a very good manual windlass (Simpson-Lawrence Sea Tiger 555). I think it's way too big for my CD 27, and I have been 'saving it for my big boat someday'. On the other hand, if someone has a smaller windlass, and they want to trade, maybe we could chat about it sometime.

.

[Steve Laume]

Duncan, we are on the same track here. I installed a really nice heavy, Windline bow roller last year. It was one of the biggest improvements I have made. No more having the rode slip off the bow spint every time the boat got slightly out of alinement.

120' of chain might be about right. At least I could still carry it around. Letting the chain out and stopping it might be more challenging than hauling it back in.

Raven now has a chain tensioning hook that catches the anchor chain four links behind the anchor and shackle when the anchor is stowed. Is this where I want to mount my chain stopper?

The last item is to make up a nylon bridle with a chain hook so I can lead the ends through both chocks to the bow cleats. I took Andy Denmark's advice and installed a shackle instead of a pin at the lower bob stay attachment. That gives me the option of securing a chain hook there as well.

This gives me a couple of more items to put on my Defender's sale list, Steve.

[Jim Davis]

The pawl, or chain stopper is a good idea for any boat with a large amount of chain. It will keep it from running back out and also gives you a break when recovering the chain by hand.

As to dropping the hook, I prefer to do it by hand and wear gloves. This is a lot easier with a horizontal windlass than a vertical one. I can simply haul the chain clear of the gypsy and lower it hand over hand. This is a lot faster than running it out through the gypsy and controlling with a brake. A horizontal windlass also makes using a second hook easier. You can haul chain on a rope drum, but with chain you only need one turn. Yes it will scratch the hell out of the drum, but not hurt anything.

To me the vertical windlass is preferred only if you are using one anchor and powering it up and down. The deck obstruction with a vertical in better, but make sure you can handle the chain separately. For setting an anchor quickly you really want to be able to hand over hand the chain. Make sure you have a rope drum if a second anchor is going to be used and that you can easily haul a second load.

My primary anchor is a 45 Delta on 150 feet of chain with 250 feet of 5/8 nylon. The secondary is a 45 CQR with 50 feet of chain and 250 feet of nylon. I also have a 37 HT Danforth that sometimes gets added to the mix.

[j2sailor]

A person in reasonable shape can pull heavy chain into a boat, even in deep water. It depends on the body mechanics used. John V. used the same mechanics used in aerobic dinghy rowing.

Keep the back straight, bend from the waist and pull with your leg muscles. He used his legs to help with much of the lifting--not his back. I say bravo--well done!

As I have posted before, you can condition certain parts of your body to enable you to do this. In this case, the upper leg muscles and lower back. Your front and back thigh muscles are some of the most powerful in the body--but they need to be conditioned.

In a pinch, or when the windlass fails, you may have to use John's method.

Best - J

[winthrop fisher]

hi

this is what i like to see in the posts, thanks....

the old ways you had too come up with easy ways to do ever thing on board......

like john V i had to learn the old ways as well....

when i lived in hilo ha in the early 70's,

at the time i was sailing a 41 footer....

i dropped the anchor, thinking it was around 10 to 20 feet and found out it was around 60 feet deep and with chain and rode = 480' was let out.

when i got back to the boat to take it to the slip two days later, i had to go for a swim for the anchor, that was fun...

that gave me a reason to stay for the next four years, i loved living in hilo.....

sorry, i was in my 20's it was fun place to live at the time and cheap....

but john V is right...

thanks, winthrop

[fenixrises]

I thought I might start this as a new companion thread to how much chain is too much. My current working ground tackle is a 35LB CQR, 30' of 3/8" chain and 200' of 3 strand nylon. I know the CQR is oversized and I like it that way. The 3/8" chain is simply too heavy by any standard. The nylon works.

My boat currently squats in the stern a bit and there is not much I can move out of that area. My thoughts were to add a much longer 5/16" chain to my rode. Like most, I try to anchor shallow. I think 30' has been the deepest I have had to deal with thus far. That said, if I make it father down east in Maine it would be easy to find myself in a situation with 40 or 50' of water under the boat at high tide. I am sure that would be a rare situation but am I kidding myself to think that I could lift that much anchor and chain without a windlass?

I am in fairly good shape at the present but am wondering if going to a mostly chain rode pretty much dictates that you also install a windlass. The fore deck area in the vicinity of the chain locker is pretty crowded on a CD-30. That and spending the money makes me reluctant to want to install a windlass.

Inquiring minds want to know, just how much chain are any of you lifting, Steve.

Hi all,

How much is it easy to handle? Oh 2 or 3 links and a cuff link fob would be easy. 90' of 1/4" and a 35lb'er are tough but doable even for 60 YO me. I definitly prefer to anchor in 30' or less.

I have a windlass but it is so slow that 99% of the time I raise the anchor and chain by hand. At 30' its a snap, up to about 60' its not too hard, at 90' a real grunt.

But add 20~30 knots of wind and/or a good current and the whole picture changes very fast. Especially for one person and then square that effort at night, because I cannot run the engine, steer the boat and pull the anchor up all at the same time. But I can lash the tiller to one side or the other, run the engine just enough to make very slow head way and then dash forward and pull up a bit.

Practice helps a lot. But it raises a sweat. Any excuse for a cold brew? he he

Take care,
Fred

[John Vigor]

Well Russell, what do you think now? Do you still think it can't be done?

John Vigor

[darmoose]

Well Russell, what do you think now? Do you still think it can't be done?

John Vigor

Inasmuch as Russell stated that he has said his last word on this subject, so I don't anticipate he will show up so John can pummel him some more, nevertheless, I still have a question (actually it was Russell's question)

Did you anchor in 90ft of water with 90ft of chain, or did you have some scope out, like 4 to 1 (360ft) or 5 to 1 (450ft) because obviously this would change the numbers considerably, wouldn't it?

And, while I'm here (since you are reluctant to come over there), what do you think about the latest discussions (particuarly the Boat/US article) re: the prop drag question?

You dont still believe that helicopter thingy, do you?

Darrell

[marka]

I think Russell is just pulling John's chain, or maybe John is just pulling Russell's chain...

I'm pretty sure someone is pulling a chain

[Carl Thunberg]

Darrell,

This seems like stalking to me. Why do you insist on taunting people? Can't you let it rest? Seriously, life's too short to get all worked up over this stuff. I'm content to say I don't know the answer to all of life's persistent questions. Let it go. Please. We've all endured quite enough of this.

[Oswego John]

I think Russell is just pulling John's chain, or maybe John is just pulling Russell's chain...

I'm pretty sure someone is pulling a chain

Hey Mark,

Ha ha, that was a good one. Pretty good pun (intended, of course).

I didn't get it at first, and then it hit me. Someone weighing an anchor with chain rode, pulling someone's chain.

Hmmm. Could it be that only an Oswegonian would think of something like this and only another Oswegonian could ever decipher the true meaning of it?

It must be something in our water. (How sweet it is).

See you in April,
O J

[darmoose]

Darrell,

This seems like stalking to me. Why do you insist on taunting people? Can't you let it rest? Seriously, life's too short to get all worked up over this stuff. I'm content to say I don't know the answer to all of life's persistent questions. Let it go. Please. We've all endured quite enough of this.

Carl,

I am sorry if i affended your sensibilities. I was truly here to follow up on a question earlier posed by Russell (and never answered) which I thought was quite important to the discussion.

I am a rather spontaneous and sometimes provacative person, and so, it occurred to me that while I was here I could poke a little at John, as he is prone to do frequently you know (have you actually read some of his latest postings on the subject?). He is quite humerous if you don't get to worked up over what he says (I do love the way he writes) The thread "How Sailboats Sail" was not even about "you know what" until J.V.( you know, "ST. John the Helle- eccentric) took it in that direction (rather provacatively, I thought).

I am actually a very nice fellow who happens to find discussion and debate very interesting, and certainly mean no harm. I can't help but think that accusing me of "stalking" was a little bit over the top though.

I also can't help but be curious about something else. You sign off with a quote from Sir Issac Newton (who happens to be the provider of the science which supports you know what), and the particular quote you refer to seems to provoke thoughtful questioning, discussion, and debate. Have you never thought to invoke Newtons 3rd into our discussion?

Anyway I promise to be less provacative and humerous, if John does. And I won't talk about you know what, if they won't.

By the way, on my computer, I don't have to "endure" anything that I don't click on to.

I do appreciate your bringing me back to center.

Darrell

[winthrop fisher]

mark you mite be right...winthrop

[S/V Necessity]

Some sailors who think they are of average fitness are in better shape than they realize. Sailors are known for being strong with the ropes, and are often characterized as having large forearms (I likes me spinach!) I suspect they have lost perspective as to what is "average"
And perhaps some sailors who think they are "of average condition" are having problems with the fact that they may be a bit soft and out of shape.... Sadly this isn't Lake Wobegon where everyone is "above average"

I have no problems believing John's claim regarding anchor hauling. However when fit I weigh 155# and have more hand and arm strength than most people my size (I'm a rock climber). I would consider myself average, but in reality the average person cannot do a single pull up. *However* most people are larger than I am and therefore probably have comparable strength.

Standing at the bow, bending over the pulpit I have *serious* problems lifting a puny 14# Danforth and 25' of 5/16" chain (this was a boat with no roller, and I was trying to protect the topsides). For me this is a VERY difficult task. Doing this more than a couple times a day was out of the question.
However sitting down bracing my feet, and using a bow roller, I can lift a 35# delta on 30' of 3/8" chain quite easily. The addition of a chain stopper could only make this task luxurious. Both instances were probably in 25' of water. However I have no problems believing that I could lift 90' of chain with a #35 anchor on the end. *If* I had a roller and a chain stopper and somewhere good to sit and brace my feet.

Important point: The addition of a bow roller and a chain stopper changes the game *dramatically*. If you have neither of these GO GET THEM.