Lazy Jacks & Reefing

[Al Levesque]

Yes, the boat would be steered to windward. Sorry about the confusion and thanks for the clarification.

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Carl:

You are very kind. However, when measured against the experience, skill and knowledge level of the folks on this discussion board, I am definitely a "tadpole" sailor. I'm learning and each day on the water I try to learn something new, but nevertheless, I am a "tadpole" sailor - for now.

[Dean Abramson]

Obviously, heaving to is not something I regularly do. I practiced it a couple of times on my last boat, in fair weather, and that's about it.

But I am definitely intrigued by the idea of heaving to for reefing purposes. I was actually surprised to hear folks did that, for this reason: I thought that some wind pressure on the main (or, say, a storm trysail) was necessary to counteract the backed headsail wanting to make the boat fall off. I would have thought that letting the main luff for reefing purposes would cause the boat to fall off too much, perhaps going all the way around to an accidental jibe.

Are you folks saying that just having the rudder positioned to make the boat head up is enough? That you can heave to with jib alone, as long as the tiller is alee (or a wheel turned to windward)?

Obviously, this must vary from boat to boat, different sails, etc. So for the sake of discussion, let's forget twin headsails for a minute. Would a CD 27 with a 100% jib up remain hove to with no main up at all? In, say, 15 knots of wind?

Have I made my question clear? Complaints can be sent to the Department of Redundancy Department.

Dean

[Jim Davis]

Dean

On my CD25 and Alberg 30 I did not heave to for reefing. I found with a working jib, or smaller, the boat would stay close enough to the wind to reef. The key is to get close enough to keep the main luffing while you are playing with the halyard, topping lift and reef tackle. Once the reef is in, fall off and sail. Do the points loosely and around the sail if possible. For boats with a bolt rope, in the boom track you do have to tie around the boom, but still not tight - only enough to keep the excess under control.

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Dean, and thanks for starting this thread. I'm always interested in reading about reefing.

I don't have lazy jacks on my 25D, and I'm not sure that my mainsail is big enough to require them. When I had a catboat, I would have been buried under sailcloth if it didn't have them, however.

As for heaving to, it's a technique I rely on regularly, especially if sailing alone on Buzzards Bay: I'll leave the mooring in the morning, when the wind is light. Sometime in early afternoon, usually when the tide turns, the wind will suddenly blow up from the southwest--and I'll heave to, follow the reefing procedure so carefully outlined in this thread (I usually secure the bunt with the reefing lines, tying under the foot of the sail, not the boom).

My boat has a double reefing horn at the gooseneck. For the first season, I mounted two 3/8-inch reefing pennants in the grommets and tied the sail under the boom. That was what I had always done on my catboat and I just didn't know any better. The catboat didn't have the horns, and I simply couldn't figure out how to use them without risking a tear in the sail.

When I bought a new main, the sailmaker suggested installing rings stitched to heavy-duty nylon webbing. I recommend that approach to anybody with "horns" on their goosenecks.

Here's a question for other 25D owners: Do any of you use lazy jacks?

--Joe

[Dean Abramson]

Jim, the way you describe is what I have done for almost 20 years. I just sail as high as I can, instruct my mate to keep it there, and reef the main as we beat with the jib.

The idea of reefing while more upright (and not worried that my crew might accidentally tack and throw me off balance, maybe into the drink) is quite appealing. Would the boat be more upright when hove to?

Joe, I love my lazy jacks. I never had them on my 25D, but I did think about it. I just like the fact that we can drop sail, and not have the sail block our view until we secure it. Particularly if I have inexperienced crew aboard. We can put off tidying up until, say, after we grab the mooring, if we want to. Certainly, you don't need them. I don't need them on the 31. But I find it is a great convenience, and as boat toys go, good bang for the buck. The extra care needed when raising or lowering sails is a small price to pay for the convenience, in my opinion.

Thanks, guys, for responding.

Dean

[Sea Hunt]

Would the boat be more upright when hove to?

Dean:

My two cents from practising this on Harbor 20s, Santana 22s, Ensign 22s, CD 25D (one time during a test sail) and J24s. We have done it to reef or have lunch.

Depending on conditions, wind direction, etc. probably better to hove to on starboard tack. You have rights.

Your CD should remain pretty upright with a gentle "S" shaped motion and sort of falling off to leeward while making very little headway. The back winded jib pushes you away from the wind; the tiller lashed to leeward (rudder to windward) brings you up toward the wind. The area of water to windward is smooth because the hull has just sort of "flattened it out" as it moved over it.

Depending on the size of the jib, the type of keel, and the size of the rudder, etc., you may need to make adjustments to the position of the main in order to get a good "balanced S".

Because "our" CDs have essentially a full keel, I would think that the "S" motion would be less pronounced and even more gentle than on a sailboat with a modern fin keel because the full keel is harder for the rudder to pull up to windward or the back winded jib to push to leeward. What say the experts

In my limited experience I have noticed that attempting this with a jib boom (Harbor 20s) it is very difficult because the jib naturally wants to tack over and cannot really be back winded. If I recall, "Loda May" has a similar (although bigger) arrangement for her headsail and this may be an issue. Folks a whole lot smarter and more experienced than I can/will address this and correct other mistakes in the above.

P.S. It is supposed to go down to 46 degrees in Miami Wednesday night - the coldest so far this year Please send wool blankets FEDEX.

[Oswego John]

Robert,

Don't you guys wear woolies in the winter like the rest of the civilized world does?

O J
PS: You're no tadpole.

[Jim Davis]

First off I use them and love them. But they can be a major PITA. Too often they will foul a batten when raising the sail. I have mine set up so I can drop them after I have dropped the sail and secured it to the boom. This is a good use for reefing hooks. The lazy jacks go through a block on each side of the mast and down to a cleat on the forward side of the mast. I don't run the lazy jacks back up till after the sail is up. This is also easier on the sail cover as the lazy jacks are under it rather than coming out under the side.

[wingreen]

My personal taste is to take some pressure off the main before I reef, unless I am removing a reef, in which case I prefer a little pressure since it seems to help w/ raising the main. So, I leave her pointed up to reef, and close-haul to remove the reef.

I don't use reefing hooks. For this part I like to use spring-loaded clips. They clip right on the rings and stay put.

Re: heaving to... my current method is to tack softly, haul in the main and jib, and then push the tiller to windward. If your boat has a weather helm, as all good Cape Dory's should, then she'll keep trying to point up while the tiller wants to make her fall off, resulting in a gentle rocking back-and-forth motion.

The second method I am contemplating is the fisherman's reef. I am unskilled at this, but I think I understand the general principles... 1) tack to backwind the jib, 2) let the main fly, 3) push the tiller hard to windward. Any comments or suggestions here are welcome. I'll give it a trial when I take her out for a day-sail next week.

[wingreen]

...to these thread before posting.

Are you all describing a fisherman's reef in this thread? If so, then the tiller should be to leeward?

[Joe Myerson]

I should add: When heaving-to, I've discovered that the size of my headsail (I have roller furling) makes a big difference on how close to the wind the boat ends up, although it's always easy to reef.

This probably should have been obvious, but I didn't catch on because for the first two years I owned a 25D I only had a working jib.

So, if you haven't already reduced your jib first, do so before heaving-to.

And here's a question for the lazy-jack enthusiasts: Did you put your own together or buy a prepared lazy-jack kit (like the always-expensive Harken stuff)?

--Joe

[Dean Abramson]

I guess I should have mentioned in my description of my reefing method: yes, I dump the air out of the main. But someone is at the helm, and we are actively sailing to windward with the jib.

Robert describes heaving to just as I have (in my limited experience) experienced. When I did it in my 25D, it was with full working jib and full main.

What I would like to know is would a CD 25D or a 27 remain hove to with full 100% jib and NO main? My guess is that if that does work, then the boat's attitude would be farther off the wind (and maybe make more forward progress) than if a main (or partial main) were up. But would the boat fall all the way off and jibe around?

That's my question, and I'm sticking to it.

Dean

[Jim Davis]

I, for one, have not used the expen$ive kit. I use inexpen$ive 1/4 braid and $mall bullet block$.

I have tried bowlines in place of the blocks and all it did was encourage me to use my "primary language" (ask Andy about this one). My upper attachment is at the spreaders and comes back down to a cleat on the face of the mast. If I redo mine I will raise the attachment to be at about 2/3 the way up the mast for better control.

[John Vigor]

What I would like to know is would a CD 25D or a 27 remain hove to with full 100% jib and NO main? My guess is that if that does work, then the boat's attitude would be farther off the wind (and maybe make more forward progress) than if a main (or partial main) were up. But would the boat fall all the way off and jibe around?

That's my question, and I'm sticking to it.

Dean

Dean, yes it would remain hove to. It wouldn't fall off and jibe around if the tiller were lashed to leeward.

When I singlehand, I motor out into clear water, kill the motor, then raise the jib first. I backwind it, and heave to, lashing the tiller to leeward. The boat stays quietly in place while I raise the main at my leisure--on the starboard tack, as our resident "non-tadpole" has pointed out.

Much depends on the strength of the wind, of course, but in a 12-knot breeze you can expect a CD27 to make slight headway when hove-to under jib only, forereaching at between one and two knots. Because she's going to leeward at the same time, actual progress over the ground is almost at right angles to the wind.
As the wind speed varies, she might fall off more, or point up more, but you have two controls to vary her attitude to the wind: the tiller and the sheet.

In heavy winds, the tiller doesn't need to to be lashed so far to leeward. She'll be forereaching more quickly and the rudder will be more responsive. In light winds, you'll need more rudder to keep the bows pointed up toward the wind.

Another adjustment comes with the angle of the jib. The harder you sheet the jib to windward, that is, with the tack more toward the shrouds, the more it tends to push the bow off the wind. If you sheet the jib so that it is only slightly to windward of amidships, it won't push the bow so far off the wind, and you'll make more (faster) headway.

So it's a question of first experimenting in different wind speeds until you find the right combination of rudder and jib position for your particular boat. Once you've found a median starting point, you'll find heaving-to is quick and easy.

I have hove to in all kinds of boats, with jib only, and with main and jib. When I raced dinghies I discovered I could heave to on the start line on starboard tack, sailing almost directly along the line, and making way to leeward without crossing the start line prematurely. This wasn't the fastest way to start, but sailing sideways gave me a big psychological advantage. It sowed panic and confusion in all the boats bunched under my lee and opened up a big hole for me to start in. The legality, or lack of it, didn't seem to matter. Nobody ever protested me. All was fair in love and sailboat racing in those days.

Cheers,

John Vigor