Engine woes on CD27

[marilou]

Many years back, I could not get my engine to start, and after doing everything I thought I should do, I called a mechanic friend, and he came down to boat and suggested that I had a injector problem. Removed pump and injector assembly, and I took it to a company that specializes in diesel injectors and pumps. I cannot remember what they did (adjusted/rebuilt?)but after I picked it back up, and put it back on the engine started right up. I believe the bill was under $100.00. Westerbekes replacement today, about $1100.00

I have replaced the alternator twice. Both times I took them to an alternator shop - both times the bill was $100 - $125.00. They even gave me the old ones back. Just removed the pulley and wire for Tach. Westerbekes part $692.00. Have a diesel Ford truck took the starter to the same shop, bill $125.00 - Ford wanted over $600 for the starter. Starter looked brand new.

I have rebuilt my water pump. Parts about 70.00.

These engines can be rebuilt, but if you are going to pay dealer prices for each part, and full price labor, a new engine might be worth looking into. A boat yard that is servicing million dollar yachts might not be the place to talk about rebuilds.

The last time my engine would not start was after I lost my fuel cable, and I was trying to operate the lever on engine by hand and
pushing when I should have been pulling or something like that...but now I know.

Unless you have deeper pockets, than many sailors, you should be able to do some work on the engine, it's a safety thing too. Diesel mechanics are not always easy to find.

Someday, I will probably have to face the major rebuild question. I hope it comes when I can rally some local help to pull the engine and do most of the grunt and "gopher" work myself.

[Leo MacDonald]

Hi All,
Re: W-27A (same family as W-13.)
In the Westerbeke Owners Manual it addresses 'Maintenance'. One of the items was to rebuild the injectors every 800 hours, along with re-torque of head bolts and valve adjustment.
The last few years the engine was getting more difficult to start. When I mentioned this to Fred Knowles (Hansen Marine; www.hansenmarine.com, 781-631-3282) he asked about the last time I had rebuild the injectors? . . . Ah . . . 'never'. Well, now they have been. And I plan on valve adjustment and head bolt re-torque before the end of winter.
The point is this neglect can add up to a non-responsive engine. I'm with the rest suggesting a rebuild rather that re-power. (An earlier post gave a link to a diesel rebuild shop in MA.)
G'Luck

[cguthrie]

For those of you who followed this post earlier I have an update -- I shipped the Westerbeke to Hansen who tore it appart. It is pitted inside from a slow coolant leak apparently. It would need boring out etc. Plus there are a number of other things that it would need putting the repair bill at 8600.00.

The immediate decision now is what to do with the old engine. Does it have any value at all for parts? Or since it is 20 years or so old is it scrap? Any thoughts appreciated.

My first inclination is to call this season a bust and wait in the hope that I can scrape enough together over the next year to install a new engine. I'm reluctant to put another older engine in as a stop gap measure because of the expenses needed for installation.
Cliff

[Dean Abramson]

Cliff,

I am really sorry to hear about your engine. My heart goes out to you.

I don't have any idea what the new Beta engine costs. But I would look very carefully at what other things would have to be done to accommodate a different engine, compared to putting the same one/kind back in.

Maybe $8600 is worth it, if you wind up with a sorta-like-new rebuilt engine, and it goes back in without a lot of other modifications.

I sure hope you manage to get your boat in this summer.

Dean

[bill2]

. . .

The immediate decision now is what to do with the old engine. Does it have any value at all for parts? Or since it is 20 years or so old is it scrap? Any thoughts appreciated.

. . .
I'm reluctant to put another older engine in as a stop gap measure because of the expenses needed for installation.
Cliff

Ouch - the numbers hurt .

Options ? How about this " another older engine " you briefly mention above - maybe one choice would be to pick up another " scrap " engine ( s ? ) and proceed with the plan to rebuild it yourself - using the good parts of all the " scrap " engines. Of course you'd repair/replace worn or broken items and have a pro check out the "injection pump" . True not brand new but many many thousands less and the satisfaction of taking it apart and the sense of accomplishment/experience of putting it back together - priceless !

Whatever you decide - good luck


ps notice I didn't suggest pulling the prop et al and plugging the hull at the prop shaft and sailing sans power nor bolting a mount and o/b to the transom but I've seen both done and they worked for the owners that did them - money seemed to be their main concern whereas I might have put seaworthiness as a bit higher priority . Guess they only sailed in "good" weather.

Do let us know if there's anything we can do . . .

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Cliff:

I too am sorry to hear about your engine diagnosis.

While too late for your current diesel, there is a good article in the March/April 2008 issue of Good Old Boat magazine at page 24 about procedures and tools for checking for coolant leaks, diagnosing the source/cause of the leak(s), etc.

Many, many months ago when I was looking at a CD 25D that was probably going to need a new engine, I spent some considerable time on line researching prices, including installation labor, etc. It is my recollection that for a quality Westerbeke (I think it was a 10 hp) installed (parts and labor) I was quoted between $8,000 and $9,000, with one quote nearer to $10,000.

At the Strictly Sail Miami show this year, Yanmar featured a model called "2YM15" which I believe I was told was the replacement for the 1GM10. The boat show price was $5,325 (if I am reading my notes correctly) for the motor. Installation, etc. extra. The 2YM15 looked really compact.

Assuming the $8,600 repair cost is accurate, it might well be worth it to buy a new motor and have it professionally installed.

This advise comes to you from a guy who can't muster the courage to pony up for a 30 year old CD Ty Weekender. I should be ashamed of myself for not heeding my own advise.

[Dean Abramson]

Obviously, if Cliff could get a new engine for, say, less than $10,000, repairing this one would make little sense. But I was guessing a 13HP engine might be around $12,000, then, if extensive boat mods and related parts were required, maybe adding another $5-6000, or more.

I searched on the web, and from what I can see, no one wants to list their prices for marine diesel engines. Can this be a boat item which is actually cheaper than I imagine?

I have vague memories of talking to a yard hypothetically about replacing the engine in my 25D with an engine with a different footprint, and it seemed to me that the quote for the labor was more than the cost of the engine. That was many years ago. (Turns out all I needed was a new head gasket and a re-pitched prop, and that 1GM still runs great for the boat's present owners.)

I am wondering also if there are re-built engines available from shops who just do rebuilds, which might be cheaper (?) than having the current one rebuilt.

Dean

[Warren Kaplan]

Back in 2002 I was considering repowering my CD27 with a Yanmar 2GM-20F. I got the costs. The yard wanted about $5K just for the engine. Total for removing the old engine, installing the new with all modifications was $12.6K! I wanted a new engine but I don't believe I wanted one that much.

I wrote a thread back then entititled "When Repowering Costs Too Much." Very good in depth discussion back then with costs and all, albeit 2002 prices. Worth looking at.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... ren+kaplan

[cguthrie]

I've been quoted about 7500 for a new engine plus installation. It was interesting reading Warren's 2002 discussion on this matter. Someone suggested to him that he buy the CD27 with the Westerbeke 13 in it. That is probably the boat I ended up buying! -- so karma could have worked out badly for Warren if he had bought that boat. Instead I have the pleasure.

There are no old or rebuilt 13As out there that I can see on the web for sale.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Cliff,

Another option would be to remove the old diesel and modify that space for storage, ad an outboard bracket to Windhover's stern, and install a new outboard. The CD27 is not too big for an outboard. You should be able to get a 15HP outboard for somewhere between $2000-3000. You may need to add more weight up at the bow with an outboard hanging off the stern. You can do this by adding sand bags around the bow tank. Anyway, it's something to think about.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Dean Abramson]

I think Cathy is on to something here, Cliff. If further down the road, you want to get a new diesel put in, you could probably sell the outboard for half of what you paid for it. In the meantime, you get to keep sailing, for a much lesser sum.

You would need to to seal off the shaft tube. Or, you could remove the prop and leave the shaft in (you would need to secure it on the forward end), but you then would have to deal with stuffing box dripping, which would be a cruel irony for a boat with no inboard engine.

Or would really tightening the stuffing box suffice, since the prop would not be rotating...?

But man, the extra storage area would be really nice. If you did not want to really modify the boat, you could use a heavy duty duffle in there for putting stuff in; that would conform to the space. And the thing is, your engine is already out.

Dean

[Dick Barthel]

Adding an outboard to a 27 is a good "practical" solution but it would certainly detract from the beauty of what many consider the sweetest looking CD. (Not me - I really dig that stubby look of the 25D )

Aesthetically yours

Dick

[M. R. Bober]

Cliff,

Another option would be to remove the old diesel and modify that space for storage, ad an outboard bracket to Windhover's stern, and install a new outboard. The CD27 is not too big for an outboard. You should be able to get a 15HP outboard for somewhere between $2000-3000. You may need to add more weight up at the bow with an outboard hanging off the stern. You can do this by adding sand bags around the bow tank. Anyway, it's something to think about.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

Heresy!

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster (where classic designs should live forever) VA

[cguthrie]

Well, I appreciate the outboard suggestion, Cathy, but I don't think I can bring myself to do it. In the end the reason I sail is because I'm a romantic and this would just unnerve the sensibilities too much.