Anchoring Question

[Matt Cawthorne]

I am confused by those who worry that the bowsprit is not designed to take some pretty large loads. The bowsprit is wide, giving it a good moment of inertia for the relatively small overhang. The sail itself probably puts many hundreds of pounds of side load on the bowsprit. I agree in a nasty storm, or if you have not put a snubber of some sort on an all chain rode or if you are anchoring in big wave action, that using the chocks and LOTS of chafing gear is prudent. I however disagree that the thing is so fragile that one needs to worry in all but extreme conditions. I have anchored over the last 15 years and always use the roller to provide the lead for the anchor rode. This arrangement has survived countless thunderstorms with no sign of distress to the bowsprit.

[Troy Scott]

Steve Laume and All,

Is the Windline Bow Roller significantly better than the Spartan Roller pictured here?

http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_bowspritrollers.htm

[Russell]

Steve Laume and All,

Is the Windline Bow Roller significantly better than the Spartan Roller pictured here?

http://www.ariel-cd36.org/projects_bowspritrollers.htm

Aestheticly the spartan roller is far nicer (I mean its bronze and all!) far nicer suited to a CD. But from a practical perspective, the windline rollers are better. Depending on your anchor of choice, you can chose a roller specifically tailor to that anchor, or the universal which works well with all. The roller itsself is on a slide, which helps make anchors like CQRs which are not self launching, launch easier. The length of the roller assembly helps reinforce the bowsprit as well as protect it.

Personally, if I was mostly weekending and anchoring seldomly, I would certainly pick the spartan roller. But since I spend basicly 100% of the time on the hook and very frequently tend to my ground tackle, the windline is a better choice for me, even if not as pretty.

I know I posted it in a previous thread, but here is some pictures of my bowsprit setup with two windline rollers (note I was refinishing the teak at the time, sorry it looks bad!):

[Troy Scott]

Russell,

I do like the looks of the Windline Roller. What I don't see in the windline that I do see in the Spartan Roller is the long through-bolt that goes all the way through the sprit and is the "axle" for the roller. This long bolt would, to my thinking, provide necessary cross-grain strength to the sprit while transferring the roller load across the sprit. While the Windline Roller looks great, I'm wondering how well the loads actually distribute to the bowsprit.

Another thing, and I know we've talked about this before: When you use a snubber or a chain grip to transfer the load to the chock, isn't there increased risk of fouling the bobstay/dolphin striker/whatever you want to call it?

[Troy Scott]

I suppose this warning should probably be posted on our rollers or at least in our Owner's Manuals. However, I'm always a little annoyed when I discover something like this. To me it's like finding these words on a can of "spar varnish": NOT FOR EXTERIOR USE. In an ideal world we wouldn't find an anchor roller on the end of a bowsprit which can't actually be depended on for anchoring the boat.

[Steve Laume]

Troy, I might have gone with the Spartan roller if it wasn't as much of a cost difference. The bronze looks very nice on the bow sprint of a Cape Dory. The Windline works very well and is heavy duty. I do not believe the Spartan roller has a bolt that goes through the bow sprint. It bolts into the slot in the bow sprint with a matching bronze backing plate. All the stress is still concentrated at the end of the bow sprint and in fact most of it is taken up by the little tabs that protrude on each side of the roller. At least the Spartan roller holds the two tabs together with solid bronze castings. The heavy stainless Windline is bolted at various places along it's length. You drill the holes wherever they are best suited. Don't ask how I know but be sure to check that the holes you drill in the roller at home on the drill press do not line up with any of the bolts holding the laminates together on the bow sprint once you get to the boat. Other than that you can spread the bolts out over the full length of the roller. You are not stressing just the tip of the laminated bow sprint. I used heavy fender washers and locking nuts but you could make up a stainless backing plate that would further strengthen the assembly. On the CD-30 I had to make a small slot to allow for the head stay fitting. The CD-36 sprint is wide enough to accommodate the roller without modification. I also drilled large diameter holes in the side flange of the roller so I could easily remove the clevis pins. The roller I have runs almost to the bow of the CD-30 but still looks properly proportioned. It does have a pin to hold the anchor in place. Don't forget to put a lanyard on the pin. I did do that before I learned the hard way. I also use the pin in the roller to fly my reacher. Having a roller that allows you to retrieve your anchor without the rode constantly falling off the roller is one of the greatest improvements I have made to my boat. I don't think you could go too far wrong with either the Spartan or the Windline. If you are going to anchor at all be sure to get rid of the original rollers asap. You will not regret it, Steve.

[Cathy Monaghan]

I suppose this warning should probably be posted on our rollers or at least in our Owner's Manuals. However, I'm always a little annoyed when I discover something like this. To me it's like finding these words on a can of "spar varnish": NOT FOR EXTERIOR USE. In an ideal world we wouldn't find an anchor roller on the end of a bowsprit which can't actually be depended on for anchoring the boat.

The Spartan anchor rollers are heavy-duty bronze rollers and you can definitely depend on them in all conditions. But, as already mentioned above, ALL ANCHOR ROLLERS, regardless of manufacturer, are intended for anchor storage and deployment. In good weather (light winds), you can be lazy and leave your anchor rode hanging over the roller, both your bowsprit and your bow (if you don't have a sprit) can take it. But if there's gonna be more wind, and especially if the sea state in the anchorage is sloppy, which will cause the bow to pitch, move the rode off the roller (Spartan, Windline or any other manufacturer) and lead it through a chock. Then be sure to provide adequate chafing gear.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Troy Scott]

Steve,

IMAGINE came into my life already equipped with a Spartan anchor roller on the starboard side. She still has the original plastic roller on the port side. I may just go ahead and buy a second Spartan roller for the other side. At the very least I'll replace that roller with a metal one. I've been keen on working out this roller thing because I'm ready to mount my windlass. The windlass mounting location is partially determined by the line between the roller and the windlass.

Here's a thought: I could remount the Spartan roller ON TOP of an extra long chafe guard that will protect the sprit from the chain. That should help distribute the load along the bowsprit. Thoughts?

[Troy Scott]

Thanks, Cathy.

I will definitely take this advice to heart. I want to protect my boat as well as I can. My point was/is: I'm sure many reasonable folks would assume that it would be reasonable to drop the anchor through that roller, cleat the rode to take the strain off the windlass and, after making sure the anchor is set, consider the job of anchoring done. It just LOOKS like that's exactly what the designer had in mind. It's a "setup" for a disaster. In fact, I just posed this question to a friend who is an engineer. When I asked if he thought it would be reasonable to anchor this way, he said "well certainly". When I described the less-than-obvious weaknesses of the bowsprit design, he changed his mind. The point is: Without the special knowledge of this board, which was probably acquired through just such disasters, more of us might fall into this trap. In fact, though this problem seems obvious in retrospect, I'm sure I would have been one of those sailors who would learn this the hard way. SOOOOO..., WHAT OTHER DESIGNED-IN TRAPS SHOULD I KNOW ABOUT?

[paul marko]

Here is my two cents worth. I have used an anchor bridal for the last ten years on by CD28 with no complications. It consists of a rectangle of heavy 1/4 SS plate 8 "by 5" with a 1/2" dia three strand nylon rope about 10 ft. long schackled on the top of the plate ,at each corner. In the exact middle of the plate on the bottom side of plate there is a slit about a 1/4 inch wide and 3 inches long, which I slip over my chain rode (1/4)" as it leaves the anchor roller. I bring the two pieces of nylon around the bow sprit, through the anchor chocks and attach them to the cleats. I release any tension on the rode left on the roller and that's it, never had any problems in winds up to 40 kts. It may in some circumstances cut down on the to and fro that full keel boats display at anchor. The two pices of Nylon can be counted on to absorb any shock loads

[Troy Scott]

Paul,

Can you post a photo? It sounds like a good plan.

[Andy Denmark]

This may be a good time to repeat the jist of a posting I made several weeks ago. If you put a shackle at the bottom of your bobstay and attach the anchor snubber to it you will greatly reduce the tendency of the boat to hunt while anchored (or moored, for that matter).
________
Hot Box Vape

[John Vigor]

The bronze looks very nice on the bow sprint of a Cape Dory.
I do not believe the Spartan roller has a bolt that goes through the bow sprint. It bolts into the slot in the bow sprint with a matching bronze backing plate. All the stress is still concentrated at the end of the bow sprint and in fact most of it is taken up by the little tabs that protrude on each side of the roller.
You are not stressing just the tip of the laminated bow sprint.
The CD-36 sprint is wide enough to accommodate the roller without modification . . .

(Pssst . . . Steve . . . ahem . . . I'm whispering this so the others won't hear. Steve, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but it's sprit, not sprint. Bowsprit, not bowsprint. Nobody else is going to tell you this because they don't want to embarrass you, but I have your best interests at heart and I wouldn't want to see your obvious knowledge and enthusiasm eroded because somebody thought you couldn't spell. We all have our blind spots. I have plenty myself. So drop the extra "n," willya, it's driving me crazy.
Your friend, John)

[paul marko]

Sorry,
I can't meet the request for a photo,my boat is in Florida and I am in California. I think West Marine used to sell the anchor bridal all made up, however, I don't see it in thier latest catalog, if you have an old copy of their catalog you will see a picture.

"attaching a shackle to the bob stay"
I am not too keen on the idea attaching any thing to my bob stay, I once had cracked swageing on my bob stay and I wonder if attaching any thing to the bob stay might contribute to a failure of the swageings.

[Jim Davis]

On Isa Lei my primary anchor is on all chain. Both ready to deploy anchors are on bowsprit rollers for convience in stowing and for deploying/recovering. That said once the hook is deployed the load is quickly removed from the roller. For the chain rode I use a snubber lead in through a hause to the bowsprit bitts. The other on a chain/nylon gets similar routing. Not only does this relieve the loading on the sprit and windlass it gives me peace and quiet. I can assure you you don't want to try and sleep with chain under load over a roller. I do leave the rode on the roller, but the snubber relieves all load. The nylon rode I just double back from the roller and belay the part going to the hook.