Troubleshooting mast lights.

[Chip]

Hi Folks

As I remember rewiring my CD, she was not set up for running lights for both power and sail. It would seem to me that there should be at least 4 switches needed. One for the deck lights, one for running lights under sail (tri colored light), one for running lights under power, and one for an anchor light.

Chip




chip88673@yahoo.com

[Bill Goldsmith]

Everyone's responses have helped me make an educated guess about what is going on here.

My panel has two relevant switches, pre-printed on the panel, definitely original equipment: They say: "Deck Light" and "Mast Light."

Currently, the Deck Light switch turns on and off both lights on the forward facing unit half way up the mast, what I would call the deck light and the steaming light.

The "Mast Light" switch operates an all-round anchor light at the very top of the mast.

I am not really concerned about sending incorrect signals, as the steaming light and the anchor light are on separate switches. One switch, the "Deck Light" switch operates the downward-pointing deck light and the steaming light. They are so close together I doubt they look like two white lights unless you're really close by (but now that it has been mentioned I get the point--it would be worth a look).

So my conclusion is that the boat was delivered with the deck light and the steaming ("masthead") light on two separate switches, "deck" and "mast." Someone rewired the mast, putting both deck and steaming lights on the "Deck Light" switch and stealing the "mast light" switch for an aftermarket anchor light.

I have the mast down this winter. I will do the job as it should have been done at first. I will give the factory fitting back its original switches and install a new switch for the anchor light.

Does this make sense to the esteemed folks reading this?

Thanks,

Bill Goldsmith

Warren,

Sounds like we're dealing with similar issues, except my problem is on the anchor light. I will be reading with interest all responses as to the best way to troubleshoot mast lights.

Question: Does it bother anyone else that the standard CD deck light/steaming light always works as a unit? Shouldn't there be two switches--one for the deck light and one for the steaming light?

As it is, when motoring at night, the deck light is always on.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173 Second Chance

Now that Sine Qua Non's mast has been unstepped, I have a chance to check the deck light/steaming light that has been inoperative. Right now, I just want to talk about the mast side of the wiring as I will check the boat side in the spring when the shrink wrap comes off. First, let me say that I've read a couple of sailboat electrical books on this so I'm not totally unfamiliar with what I want to do. Obviously, with the mast unstepped I'll be able to get at both bulbs and put my trusty ohmmeter on them to see if they are okay. I'll also check the plug to make sure there's no corrosion and all wires are connected as they should be. On short stretches of wire when doing continuity testing the ohmmeter should read zero if all is okay. In one book I read, they advised disconnecting the plug at the mast base when everything IS working okay to get a reading with an ohmmeter so you know what "normal" is. I never got the chance to do that. They mentioned that #12 wire generates .16 ohm resistence per 100 feet of wire so a 40 ft mast (80 feet of wire up and back down) would be .8 X .16 or about .13 ohms. Now here is were I have a little trouble and why I'm asking this question. They show an illustration of 3 conditions. First, and open circuit, usually blown out bulb with an ohmmeter reading of 0.L which is understandable. Then they show a condition of a short circuit to the mast with an ohmmeter reading of 0.4 ohms. Okay, short circuit, as it says, not much wire and therefore not many ohms generated. Then they show a "normal" condition of the circuit with a reading of 8.4 Ohms. I understand that .13 ohms comes from 80 feet of wire in the mast in their example. I can only assume that the additional 7.1 ohms comes from the resistence in the bulbs. Right? Wrong? I have a CD27. Mast height in 38.5 feet. If everything on the mast side is in working order, what should the reading on my ohmmeter be for the whole circuit? On their example it was 8.4 ohms. What should I be lookin' at. I will of course check the entire fitting, not just the bulbs as the problem could be in corroded contacts etc. Thanks for patiently reading this.

Warren Kaplan
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 (1980)

goldy@bestweb.net

[Will W.]

I don't know if mine came as you describe originally but that is how she came to me, so that I can show the right lights for power and for sail. My masthead light has a bow light and a deck light as I guess most do. Each of these lights has its own switch. The switch that turns the deck light on also cotrols the two deck lights mounted on the speaders. The running lights are on another switch and this includes the red and green side lights and a rear facing white light.
That is three switches. I'm pretty sure this is the right set up. Or do I need the rear facing light on its own switch. As it is I can display only red and green forward if I am under sail at night and turn on the bow light if I go to power. I think this is right but I'll go back and read up just to be sure.

Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25

Hi Folks

As I remember rewiring my CD, she was not set up for running lights for both power and sail. It would seem to me that there should be at least 4 switches needed. One for the deck lights, one for running lights under sail (tri colored light), one for running lights under power, and one for an anchor light.

Chip

willwheatley@starpower.net

[Will W.]

/)
/_)

Everyone's responses have helped me make an educated guess about what is going on here.

My panel has two relevant switches, pre-printed on the panel, definitely original equipment: They say: "Deck Light" and "Mast Light."

Currently, the Deck Light switch turns on and off both lights on the forward facing unit half way up the mast, what I would call the deck light and the steaming light.

The "Mast Light" switch operates an all-round anchor light at the very top of the mast.

I am not really concerned about sending incorrect signals, as the steaming light and the anchor light are on separate switches. One switch, the "Deck Light" switch operates the downward-pointing deck light and the steaming light. They are so close together I doubt they look like two white lights unless you're really close by (but now that it has been mentioned I get the point--it would be worth a look).

So my conclusion is that the boat was delivered with the deck light and the steaming ("masthead") light on two separate switches, "deck" and "mast." Someone rewired the mast, putting both deck and steaming lights on the "Deck Light" switch and stealing the "mast light" switch for an aftermarket anchor light.

I have the mast down this winter. I will do the job as it should have been done at first. I will give the factory fitting back its original switches and install a new switch for the anchor light.

Does this make sense to the esteemed folks reading this?

Thanks,

Bill Goldsmith

Warren,

Sounds like we're dealing with similar issues, except my problem is on the anchor light. I will be reading with interest all responses as to the best way to troubleshoot mast lights.

Question: Does it bother anyone else that the standard CD deck light/steaming light always works as a unit? Shouldn't there be two switches--one for the deck light and one for the steaming light?

As it is, when motoring at night, the deck light is always on.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173 Second Chance

Now that Sine Qua Non's mast has been unstepped, I have a chance to check the deck light/steaming light that has been inoperative. Right now, I just want to talk about the mast side of the wiring as I will check the boat side in the spring when the shrink wrap comes off. First, let me say that I've read a couple of sailboat electrical books on this so I'm not totally unfamiliar with what I want to do. Obviously, with the mast unstepped I'll be able to get at both bulbs and put my trusty ohmmeter on them to see if they are okay. I'll also check the plug to make sure there's no corrosion and all wires are connected as they should be. On short stretches of wire when doing continuity testing the ohmmeter should read zero if all is okay. In one book I read, they advised disconnecting the plug at the mast base when everything IS working okay to get a reading with an ohmmeter so you know what "normal" is. I never got the chance to do that. They mentioned that #12 wire generates .16 ohm resistence per 100 feet of wire so a 40 ft mast (80 feet of wire up and back down) would be .8 X .16 or about .13 ohms. Now here is were I have a little trouble and why I'm asking this question. They show an illustration of 3 conditions. First, and open circuit, usually blown out bulb with an ohmmeter reading of 0.L which is understandable. Then they show a condition of a short circuit to the mast with an ohmmeter reading of 0.4 ohms. Okay, short circuit, as it says, not much wire and therefore not many ohms generated. Then they show a "normal" condition of the circuit with a reading of 8.4 Ohms. I understand that .13 ohms comes from 80 feet of wire in the mast in their example. I can only assume that the additional 7.1 ohms comes from the resistence in the bulbs. Right? Wrong? I have a CD27. Mast height in 38.5 feet. If everything on the mast side is in working order, what should the reading on my ohmmeter be for the whole circuit? On their example it was 8.4 ohms. What should I be lookin' at. I will of course check the entire fitting, not just the bulbs as the problem could be in corroded contacts etc. Thanks for patiently reading this.

Warren Kaplan
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166 (1980)

willwheatley@starpower.net

[Will W.]

My boat does not have an anchor light yet, that would make four switches. Will

I don't know if mine came as you describe originally but that is how she came to me, so that I can show the right lights for power and for sail. My masthead light has a bow light and a deck light as I guess most do. Each of these lights has its own switch. The switch that turns the deck light on also cotrols the two deck lights mounted on the speaders. The running lights are on another switch and this includes the red and green side lights and a rear facing white light.
That is three switches. I'm pretty sure this is the right set up. Or do I need the rear facing light on its own switch. As it is I can display only red and green forward if I am under sail at night and turn on the bow light if I go to power. I think this is right but I'll go back and read up just to be sure.

Will Wheatley
Suzi Q
CD25

Hi Folks

As I remember rewiring my CD, she was not set up for running lights for both power and sail. It would seem to me that there should be at least 4 switches needed. One for the deck lights, one for running lights under sail (tri colored light), one for running lights under power, and one for an anchor light.

Chip

willwheatley@starpower.net

[Mark Yashinsky]

Warren, believe the "problem" is that the panel was NOT modified when the additional light was added. How many lites on the mast do you have??? Reading the posts, sounds like the 27 was sold w/ two lites (no anchor lite) on the mast, each on a separate switch. Sounds like the anchor lite was added and cable was run, but no third switch was added. The deck and steaming wires were tied together. Will fix that this winter.

[Warren Kaplan]

Warren, believe the "problem" is that the panel was NOT modified when the additional light was added. How many lites on the mast do you have??? Reading the posts, sounds like the 27 was sold w/ two lites (no anchor lite) on the mast, each on a separate switch. Sounds like the anchor lite was added and cable was run, but no third switch was added. The deck and steaming wires were tied together. Will fix that this winter.

Mark,
Exactly so!

Warren



Setsail728@aol.com

[Ken Coit]

One thing you might consider is the use of double throw switches with a center off position to control circuits that don't need to be on at the same time. For instance you could control the bow light and the tri-color with one switch. On Parfait we have a strobe and an anchor light on one switch. You could do some more innovative wiring using blocking diodes, but that would introduce a voltage drop and add confusion to any diagnosis you might need to do in the future.

Parfait still has a spare position on the standard panel using double throw switches. Labeling is a bit of a problem, but we hope to work that out too.

Ken

Question: Does it bother anyone else that the standard CD deck light/steaming light always works as a unit? Shouldn't there be two switches--one for the deck light and one for the steaming light?

As it is, when motoring at night, the deck light is always on.

Bill Goldsmith
CD27 #173 Second Chance

Bill,
My CD27 has separate switches on the distribution panel for the two mast lights....as others have illuded to. Since my boat is only 7 boats older than yours, and built in the same year, I assume your panel was modified. If you look at my panel you KNOW mine wasn't!! Probably at the same time the bowsprit and larger engine were installed on Second Chance.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27 #166

parfait@nc.rr.com