Chart Plotter and Radar Update Choice

[Joe CD MS 300]

There is no legislation that requires the purchase of a GPS. However if I’m not mistaken if you have it but don’t use it you could be held liable in the event of an accident.

[John Stone]

There is no legislation that requires the purchase of a GPS. However if I’m not mistaken if you have it but don’t use it you could be held liable in the event of an accident.

Joe, I’m throwing the BS flag on that. While very little surprises me in our increasingly litigious society I’d have to see something from a legitimate source or record before I would accept that as an article of fact. If it was a factor, it would have to be included with a whole host of other contributing events.

Everything has a context. Got any more info?

[Paul D.]

This is covered in this way by the USCG Rules of the Road International and Inland Rule 7, Risk of Collision.
(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.
(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.
(c) Assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.

[John Stone]

Paul
I’m not experienced in admiralty law.... But, what you posted is about risk of collision and the use of long range scanning equipment appropriate to the conditions, etc. Seems to me the references refers to radar and not GPS. Perhaps someone could argue AIS fits in the category...perhaps. But there are lots of reasons for not transimittimg, etc.

The notion that you must have all these electronic gadgets or you’re liable is exactly what companies like Garmin and Raymarine want us to think.

I’d like to know about a case where where a skipper was convicted because he didn’t have his GPS turned on or didn’t have his radar visible from the helm.

In the end it doesn’t matter...we are all eventually going to have integrated radar and AIS displays on our wristwatches. Apple and Garmin are probably secretly working on it already...much to the delight of West Marine.

[Steve Laume]

Sorry, double post, Steve.

[Steve Laume]

I don't see GPS as adding anything to collision avoidance. Radar and AIS would, definitely be included in your watch system. There is nothing that says you need to have these available but if they are on board, they become part of your watch system. As a single hander, AIS helps me sleep a bit more soundly and a bit longer. I have done the 20 minute nap and scan, routine and it is exhausting after a while. There is always a risk of sleeping through your alarms. I always set two that are spaced a few minutes apart. That sleep schedule also leads me to make some dumb decisions after sleep deprivation sets in. I use AIS, with a proximity alarm set, constantly and radar in reduced viability. I should probably be running the radar whenever I am napping, as well but have always had concerns about the power consumption. I am adding 140 watts of solar panels this year and plan to make better use of my radar with the added power generation. Having it set with alarms would add another layer of safety when napping. Although all of these systems do add to the complexity of my boat, they also increase my safety and peace of mind. If I am well rested I make better decisions.

I have never had to avoid another vessel when sailing off shore. It is a very big ocean. Still it is great to be aware of what is happening around you and it would really suck to be run down by another vessel, even if you were not found libel, Steve.

[John Stone]

Well said Steve L.

[Martinhilldpo]

2 thumbs up for Navionics. Ipad for the critical stuff, iphone in my pocket just in case. Used sensibly in conjunction with pilot books and cruising guides gets me anywhere I want to go. Cheap, simple and reliable. I have a small garmin integrated plotter in my cockpit and the only thing I use it for is depth below keel.

If you want something a little more sophisticated on your chart table I have a toughbook laptop with fugawi marine charts, interfaces with external gps and AIS. I have never needed it.

Or you could spend a bucketload of cash on a fully integrated blue tooth digital enabled plotter with touch screen which will tell you the state of your batteries, oil pressure, dilithium crystals and holding tank contents if you wish.

[Cathy Monaghan]

We have a redundant (kinda) system aboard our CD32. We have a Raymarine e7 MFD mounted in the cockpit and a Raymarine a75 MFD mounted in the nav station. They are both using the same raydome, a Raymarine HD digital scanner which is mounted on the mast.

The GPS chartplotter used in conjunction with the radar, MARPA overlay and AIS are great and a real lifesaver in fog as well as at night. (We always have paper charts on board and use them religiously.

We also have marine navigation apps on our iPhone and iPad.

I did not want to hijack thread regarding radar deck pole install - where Commodore Walsh indicated he was about to do a chart plotter radar update. I suppose I should join the 21st century and have this technology aboard. What are folks using, recommending for boats like a CD31 used largely in-shore? I intend to mount plotter on cabin top under the dodger.

Now where is that paraffin lamp oil for my main and forward cabin lamps, takes the chill off on a cool spring evening?

Thanks in advance for any advice

[Paul D.]

I missed that the post was about GPS. Doah! But I had recently assisted teaching another USCG license course and remembered there was a section on "fitted and operational" radar and hunted for it in the rules. I did not find anything on GPS needing to be and never thought we would be liable if we didn't have it, but knew there was a section on radar.

USCG updates the rules rarely but there could be a time when they put GPS on the board. I'll ask my buddy about what he knows on the practical concerns regarding this topic.

[Jim Cornwell]

Though paper charts and traditional coastwise navigation are second nature for me and are here to stay, fixed mount electronics are certainly in Yankee's future. A pathway for mast-mounted radar wiring was installed as part of mast renovations last year and I look forward to the improved safety that will bring. Any photos of cockpit installations (particularly at the helm) would be of great value in planning for this big upgrade. Please post what you've got! Jim.

[Cathy Monaghan]

A few years back we upgraded our steering pedestal so it will look different from everyone else’s. This view shows the side where you can’t see the instruments, but the displays for the knot meter and the depth sounder are mounted on the face of the instrument housing that’s part of the pedestal itself which is below the compass. There’s a NavPod instrument housing attached to the guard which houses the MFD in the middle and the wind instrument on the starboard side. The port side is blank (room for another instrument).

If you have wheel steering, there are various arms and RAM mounts that you can use to mount a small instrument at the helm. A RAM mount is a nice way to mount a handheld GPS. If you want a GPS/chartplotter that’s larger than a handheld, then a NavPod (there are others) is a nice way to go. They are available in many different sizes. But you may need to replace your pedestal guard with a taller one in order to accommodate the instrument housing.

Though paper charts and traditional coastwise navigation are second nature for me and are here to stay, fixed mount electronics are certainly in Yankee's future. A pathway for mast-mounted radar wiring was installed as part of mast renovations last year and I look forward to the improved safety that will bring. Any photos of cockpit installations (particularly at the helm) would be of great value in planning for this big upgrade. Please post what you've got! Jim.

[John Stone]

Oh my....

”Take us to Warp 7 Mr Sulu.”

[Joe CD MS 300]

There is no legislation that requires the purchase of a GPS. However if I’m not mistaken if you have it but don’t use it you could be held liable in the event of an accident.

Joe, I’m throwing the BS flag on that. While very little surprises me in our increasingly litigious society I’d have to see something from a legitimate source or record before I would accept that as an article of fact. If it was a factor, it would have to be included with a whole host of other contributing events.

Everything has a context. Got any more info?

I’m not saying that you must have GPS but that if you have it and don’t use it and it’s use could have helped avoid an accident it should be used.

Imagine a ship running aground in a fog or storm where a crew members is lost and the captain did not use his available GPS. Think the widow of the lost crew member might make the claim that the captain was negligent by not using the GPS?

[John Stone]

Joe, Clearly you feel more reassured when you have and use the latest chart plotter, Radar, etc. I think that’s fine. Even great. If you get pleasure using them it’s even better. At this point in my life I don’t like them. They detracts from the pleasure sailing with traditional skills provides to me. Your choice is yours and my choice is mine. Why do they have to be the same? And the day that big brother starts telling me I have to have and use electronic navigational equipment is the day you will see the Far Reach up for sale.

Carry your concern farther...let’s just make it illegal to sail offshore in anything less than 65’ or lets just make it 200’ in length and all offshore boats must have a licensed Capt. Because, well it’s just safer for everyone involved.

Technology is a tool. To be used carefully and thoughtfully. We are all basically lazy. Some more than other perhaps. It’s too easy to fall into the trap of manning the equipment instead of equipping the man. I am certainly not the only that feels this way. The Golden Globe Jubilee was just sailed with traditional skills. Small boat “raids” have become wildly popular for the some of the same reasons. Lots of people want the reward of using the traditional skills...I’m just one of them.

As my Dad used to say to me, “You pays your money and takes your chances.”