Repowering with Electric

[Keith]

[quote][/quote]

Roberto,

You deal with an electric motor every time you start your diesel unless that is you crank it by hand. So I have to ask why doesn't not seeing those electrons bother you? Then add on top of it many more systems; lubrication, fuel, air, water, impeller, electric fuel pump, fuel line, water hoses, through hulls, fuel filters, air filters, water strainers, muffler, anti siphon. Not to mention dozens of moving parts in the iron beast. Now think about the one moving part of an electric motor, the rotor!. Then think about how do you make diesel fuel in the middle of the ocean for those blue water cruisers. Roberto I'm not poking fun at you, I'm poking fun at all of us because we all feel this way. As Spock would say it is highly illogical. We humans are creatures of habit and highly resist change.

Maine Sails,

As always you have added great insight and information to help us navigate through these turbulent waters of electrical propulsion. Thank You

Steve & tjr,

I have been pondering the resale question as well and unfortunately I think Steve is correct that it would be more negative then positive for the reason I pointed out in my reply to Roberto, sorry Roberto I didn't mean to be so hard on you.

jepomer,

Glad to see you using electric power and that it is working well for you but unfortunately it is really a different circumstance with the outboard vs the inboard. Meaning that the complexity to switch back to the internal combustion engine is quite a bit simpler for an outboard


I will continue to monitor Electric propulsion and maybe by the time my beloved MD7A gives up the ghost the battery technology will have progressed to the point that this becomes a no brainer. You could argue that it is already pretty close to a no brainer. The problem is that we let emotion in this case comfort of the known verses the unknown over rule the logic of using a system that significantly more efficient and at least an order of magnitude less complicated.

Thanks for all of your comments and I'll keep you updated as I discover more.

Keith

[joemerchant]

So, listening to the arguments for repowering a < 30' sailboat with electric and everything that goes into that, it boggles my mind why not just leave the diesel alone and add a Torqeedo http://torqeedoelectricoutboard.com/torqeedo-outboards/ to the transom.

Resale Value. The boat remains the same, the engine has it's own intrinsic value by itself. I have not seen a boat on soldboats.com with electric that sold even for BUC. Would love to see a sale contrary to that.
Day Sail. Use the torqeedo to get out of the slip and out of the marina. Don't need to start the diesel, but it is there if you do take a longer trip. Solves the short run times that kill most diesels on day sailors.
Instant Stern Thruster. Amaze your friends and neighbors with super tight and instant turns. It actually does provide a safety factor of having instant touch button thrust.
Quick tacks. How many times racing in low winds do you wish you had a little push to get your through the wind on a new tack? Sorry, meant day sailing...
Mind Change. Change your mind at anytime and sell the extra batteries and Torqeedo on Ebay, head to the bar and buy a rum and coke and feel a little better about the 3-5 grand you didn't loose.
Dual Use. Replace your outboard on your dingy and use it for both - getting the boat out to sail, and running around on the dink all with the same clean burning (at least at the end of the food chain) electric motor.

Taking out your diesel and replacing it with electric scores high on the cool project scale, but negative on the practicality and investment scale. Initial costs are higher with Torqeedo, but long term is most-likely much lower (green ideas are supposed to be amortized way into the future, right?) as the boat retains it's value and the Torqeedo has it's own value on it's own.

[tjr818]

joemercahant,
I almost agree, if the diesel is still operational, except for the ugly motor hanging off the transom. The original idea (I think) was for replacing a dead diesel. In that case I think the cost would be about even . . . until resale

I had often though of a retractable bow mounted trolling motor as seen on some bass boats. It would make a nice bow thruster and, I suppose, it could get me into and out of the harbor. Too bad, they just don't make those very good looking either.

[Keith]

Tim,

You hit the nail on the head the post is about REPLACING a dead 35-40 year old diesel. As for hanging a motor of any kind off the transom of a CD30, well I just could not do that!!! As I stated earlier I do believe the biggest negative is the resale value. Most days I think that I will sail MOON DANCE until I can't sail any more and therefore who cares about resale value but then I read about John and Far Reach and maybe I'll move up to a 36 and sail off into the sunset so then resale value of MOON DANCE would not be pertinent.

Any way it is always good to consider the options and be prepared for when the 36 year old iron beast dies and hopeful not in the middle of the very tight channel that I have to traverse every voyage.

Keith

[mgphl52]

While somewhat different, I have read about several electric motor installations and pondered the idea. The one difference I would consider is having both, sort of... Rather than too many gigantic batteries, go with a few less and replace the diesel with a smaller diesel genset, electric drive motor and a few 'larger' batteries.

That, plus solar and maybe even a wind generator just might be the ticket until the latest whiz-bang battery technology becomes more affordable.

However, my MD7A still works fine (once you get her going in cold weather) and I hope to not have to make any drastic changes until I win a lottery.

PS: Wow! I didn't realize how much I've missed this board!!!

[Jeff and Sarah]

[quote="mgphl52"]While somewhat different, I have read about several electric motor installations and pondered the idea. The one difference I would consider is having both, sort of... Rather than too many gigantic batteries, go with a few less and replace the diesel with a smaller diesel genset, electric drive motor and a few 'larger' batteries.
quote]

I have seen some small diesel DC generators at the boat shows that would fit this bill pretty well. They are basically 1 cylinder diesel engines that run a 220 Amp alternator. They are incredibly simple and small enough to tuck out of the way. That seemed like a perfect solution to me until I saw it costs $7k-10k! At that point, one would be better off just replacing their auxiliary diesel. If costs were not a concern (which seems unlikely), a small diesel generator with a moderate battery bank would be an interesting option. Unfortunately (at least for now), it seems to incorporate the expense of both solutions- diesel repower and electric repower. If I were to build/buy a new boat, this is absolutely to solution I'd want. It might not be worth it when retrofitting a 30 year old boat though.

[joemerchant]

My boat broker states that anyone contemplating this on a beautiful boat like the Cape Dory's should have their head examined. He also will not take the listing as they stay on the market a long time before finding the "right buyer" and the one he listed sold for far less than average.

I am not anywhere close to a financial genius, but I am at a loss as to where the upside is on a conversion?

Even if the old diesel dies, for the little ones you guys are talking about about 4 - 6K remanufactured from Schooner. May not get it all back, but will at least get above average return when selling it. 4K+ and many hours of fabrication, weight for batteries, bigger chargers, etc. and get less money and less freedom to cruise.

What am I missing?

[Maine Sail]

My boat broker states that anyone contemplating this on a beautiful boat like the Cape Dory's should have their head examined. He also will not take the listing as they stay on the market a long time before finding the "right buyer" and the one he listed sold for far less than average.

I am not anywhere close to a financial genius, but I am at a loss as to where the upside is on a conversion?

Even if the old diesel dies, for the little ones you guys are talking about about 4 - 6K remanufactured from Schooner. May not get it all back, but will at least get above average return when selling it. 4K+ and many hours of fabrication, weight for batteries, bigger chargers, etc. and get less money and less freedom to cruise.

What am I missing?

On my own boat, which is no longer a CD, I installed a LiFePO4 bank but engineered the system so it can easily, in about 4 hours, be converted back to lead acid... I would not even consider listing our boat with a non main stream system. Plus I can bring it with me to the next boat....