how much weight can my stern rail support?

[Jim Walsh]

When using chain or other forward ballast to counter weight at the stern, will there be a tendency to pitch or hobbyhorse?

All else being equal, yes. The larger the boat is, and the fuller the foreward sections are, this tendency will be less pronounced. Reducing weight in the stern would be the ideal solution.
I empty my lazarette a couple times every season just to remove unnecessary items (weight) from my 'junk drawer'.

[Ken Cave]

Hi Jim:

You might consider us a long distance cruiser as one of our trips to Canada, Desolation Sound, Princess
Louisa, Gulf Islands, etc,. this summer lasted over 50 days before returning home for supplies and clean clothes.

Most of that time we anchored, and sometimes in waters over 50 feet.

We carry most of our supplies with us, and only go to a place for water (and a real shower) about every eight
days or so. (we do carry sun-showers with us)

The boat came with its two water tanks. I took one out, which leaves us with 30 gallons, and lots of space
for "stuff" to make our voyages comfortable.

For heat, I have installed a Force 10 propane heater, and for refrigeration I have an Adler Barbour system that
makes ice. (we are probably the only 28 ft. boat out there that does make ice!)

Power: I have four 6 volt batteries for house and one 12 volt for the engine.

Believe it or not, we do not and never had the desire to move up to a larger boat.

Ken Cave

[tjr818]

Okay, this has got me wondering. If all the weigh is concentrated in the center of a boat the ends would be very light. Would not that make a boat more likely to "hobby-horse" than a boat with the weight concentrated equally nearer the forward and aft ends?
I am not a physicist nor a NA, but it seems that it would be easier for a wave to lift a lighter bow than a heavy one. But then when things do start moving there is that thing called momentum Hmmm....

[tartansailor]

Okay, this has got me wondering. If all the weigh is concentrated in the center of a boat the ends would be very light. Would not that make a boat more likely to "hobby-horse" than a boat with the weight concentrated equally nearer the forward and aft ends?
I am not a physicist nor a NA, but it seems that it would be easier for a wave to lift a lighter bow than a heavy one. But then when things do start moving there is that thing called momentum Hmmm....

It's counteracted by buoyancy in the stern in a well balanced boat, which bare bones Cape Dorys' are.
richard

[Jim Walsh]

Okay, this has got me wondering. If all the weigh is concentrated in the center of a boat the ends would be very light. Would not that make a boat more likely to "hobby-horse" than a boat with the weight concentrated equally nearer the forward and aft ends?
I am not a physicist nor a NA, but it seems that it would be easier for a wave to lift a lighter bow than a heavy one. But then when things do start moving there is that thing called momentum Hmmm....

I found this explanation which seems to clarify it in layman's terms. It's the type of thing R. Perry always has a way of defining so anyone can comprehend. If I can find one of my NA books I'll provide a more refined definition.

"Hobbyhorsing is the tendency of a boat to pitch back and forth like a rocking or "hobby" horse. That is to say, to roll forward toward the bow along the longitudinal axis, then back toward the stern, repeating, with the horizontal axis as the pivot point. If "hobbyhorse" doesn't quite conjure the right image, think "seesaw".

The conditions that induce hobbyhorsing vary for different designs, but hobbyhorsing usually occurs in a certain amount of a seaway. Sometimes, it is not the seastate, but a motorboat wake that will induce hobbyhorsing.

To a certain extent, most boats will hobbyhorse somewhat in certain conditions. But some are more prone than others. Long overhangs at the bow and stern are one design feature that is often associated with excessive hobbyhorsing. Another is excessive weight concentration at the boat's extremities.

Hobbyhorsing can be a momentary condition, such as when a wake is encountered, or can be an ongoing issue in certain sea states during a passage. Abrupt hobbyhorsing can bring a boat to a stop -- such as when encountering a wake in light air.

But even moderate hobbyhorsing won't help boatspeed -- some energy that could be propelling the boat forward is instead partly expended in the pitching of the vessel or fighting it. In other words, the boat is rocking back and forth instead of simply moving forward, so some forward momentum is lost as the boat pitches back, on the return, toward the stern."

[tjr818]

... Another is excessive weight concentration at the boat's extremities. . . .

Thanks Jim, that seems to answer it. I think that is the momentum thing

[Tom Keevil]

Why take a beautiful boat, and try to see how much stuff you can lash onto the stern? I bet Alberg's drawings don't even include a dodger, much less propane tanks, a barbeque, an outboard, fuel jugs, a bimini, a full canvas enclosure, solar panels, etc. There are a lot of otherwise beautiful boats out there that look like the Joad family leaving Oklahoma.

[Jim Walsh]

Why take a beautiful boat, and try to see how much stuff you can lash onto the stern? I bet Alberg's drawings don't even include a dodger, much less propane tanks, a barbeque, an outboard, fuel jugs, a bimini, a full canvas enclosure, solar panels, etc. There are a lot of otherwise beautiful boats out there that look like the Joad family leaving Oklahoma.

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

[Steve Laume]

Why take a beautiful boat, and try to see how much stuff you can lash onto the stern? I bet Alberg's drawings don't even include a dodger, much less propane tanks, a barbeque, an outboard, fuel jugs, a bimini, a full canvas enclosure, solar panels, etc. There are a lot of otherwise beautiful boats out there that look like the Joad family leaving Oklahoma.

How a boat is set up or even what boat you chose to own, has a lot to do with where you sail and how you intend to use it.

If you just day sail you don't need much.

Raven does not have AC or a bimini which I might want if she was based in a very warm climate. She does have a dodger and a wind vane which I would not want to do without. There are also brackets for a BBQ and an outboard on the stern rail along with a smaller kedging anchor. On some trips the outboard goes along and on others it stays home. I used to have a Lifesling but removed that as it didn't seem to serve much purpose when sailing alone. I carry spare fuel for longer trips and would love to have some solar panels as well.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and form follows function. If all I cared about was how uncluttered my boat might be, then longer trips would be pretty miserable and that is what I want her for at this point, Steve.

[tjr818]

...and then there are all those "ugly" stanchions, life lines, and pulpits. I don't think Alberg had those in mind either.

[Ken Cave]

For those of you that would like to see some neat boats, try setting your sites on next years
Alberg Design Rendezvous to be held on the third week of June at Ladysmith, Canada.(Gulf
Islands in British Columbia)

This past year we had the rendezvous at Port Browning, Canada, and had five Cape Dory's
as well as a number of Albergs from 22 ft to 37 ft, all equipped with all sorts of goodies
that make boating fun. The Cape Dory fleet had boats from 25 ft. to 40 ft.

Then, you can see how functional and "beautiful" boats can really be, even with dodgers,
"stuff" on the rails, etc.

Ken Cave
CD 28 #227