Roller furling or Hank on

[rorik]

What tools are required to remove a sail from a furler?

Either is a good option- both have benefits and weak points. Sail shape to the level of being hurt by a furler on a Cape Dory seems like not a worthy reason for hank ons to me. Bottom paint is bad for speed too, you know. Nobody is racing these boats seriously. Simplicity of systems is the benefit of hank ons. Simplicity and safety of 'raising', 'dousing', and reefing are the benefits of furlers. For me, hank ons for light race boats. Furlers for everything else.

My mistake.
I should have made myself more clear that the tools were to repair the possibly defective furler - not the sail.

[BubbaThePirate]

Hank on.

Less moving parts.

In a gale, you can eliminate the windage on the forestay/bow.

My humble opinion.

TrT

[Steve Laume]

Where and how you sail would be one of the first considerations. Boat size might even be more important. Are going to be sailing, single handed, off shore at night? Racing? Putzing around with no particular place to go?

I don't think I would want to be changing head sails on a CD-36 while single handing at night with big seas running. With crew on a smaller boat in protected waters, it would not present a problem.

On the Typhoon I carried three head sails in bags. They were small and easy to handle. For virtually every day of sailing I could choose the right one and go. On some occasions the change in wind velocity made a change of head sails prudent. On a couple of rare days there were two changes but that was certainly not the norm.

Raven came with a yankee and a genoa. I find I like the yankee much better and have only had the genoa on the furler one time. Changing a sail that big is kind of a PIA when you are alone. Furling is very easy.

If I feel I need more sail, I also have a free flying reacher that provides more than ample power. This is a nice option as it does not involve a head sail change. The sail is light and easy to deploy. If I want to depower or maneuver, the reacher comes down and the yankee is unfurled.

Like so many things I don't believe the choice of furling or hank on is a one size fits all situation, Steve.

[rtwhitman2]

I suspect there are two correct answers to the question of whether hank-on or roller furling headsails are best and each relates to the type of sailor asking the question. When I started serious sailing roller furling was rather new and, at the time, also rather unreliable. The furling devices often jammed, the sails were difficult to get it in a blow, the concept of any acceptable sail shape when partially furled was mythical and I recall seeing more than one sail unfurl while unattended at anchor. So for my CD33 (Gambit) I trooped off to the the local sailmaker and had a full complement of hank-ons made (yes, there were three reef points in the main). Most of my sailing has been distance cruising, some of it on open water. In that context flexibility and reliability were major priorities. And, I personally like the problem solving side of sailing; choosing the best sail combination for the destination route or anticipated conditions. Further, the esthetics of a clean bow at anchor, or one with a bagged headsail appeal to me. True, there were times when going forward to remove a sail was both uncomfortable and relatively dangerous, but those sail-change decisions were mostly all-or-nothing and I typically had to go at least partially forward anyway to reef the main.

From my experience, the majority of sailors are out for the day or weekend, often in known waters, with family or friends. Assuming modern furling gear has overcome its original shortfalls, for this style of sailing, a single sail safely managed from the cockpit makes sense from both utility and economic points of view. However, I offer two further considerations. Now that many yards leave masts up during winter storage, I wonder how often or carefully roller furling gets inspected. And , I've seen more than a few boats break from moorings during storms due to the extra wind resistance caused by a rolled up headsail, dodger, awning, etc. left in place after a weekends sailing.

I'm looking at CDs again and will also have to face the sail design decision again – at this point I'm thinking hank-on.

[shavdog]

I sailed our 26 foot classic yacht with a cdi rf, our hunter 34 with a cdi rf my typhoon with hank on and my current cd 22 with hank on...I sail mostly single handed and at 61 I find myself liking it in the cockpit...I have in the last month placed my order with north sails for a new 150 rf head sail with foam, a window, and weather protection. I also ordered a cdi ff2 and a new traveller from garhaur all to be installed in april...to make my story short I became less inclined to go forward and put up another head sail because of changing winds so the roller furling will be welcome aboard here...

[Mike Thompson]

As almost everything has already been said already...

If you do decide to hank-on, then also get a storm jib as that will make sailing a lot easier in a blow.

Mike

"No lines back to the cockpit, thank you"

[SurryMark]

David, you have sailed with hank-ons, right? And you're prepared to give up roller reefing? I've never personally met anyone who would do that, but if you do, please let us know how it works for you.

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

Good question, with multiple answers, many have to do with $$$$.

I had no rolling on FeNIX and did not want it, but I did want the cutter rig for flexibility. I used four sails most of the time. Main w/2reefs, about a 120% genny, a yankee and a staysail. Since three of the sails were attached all the time storage was no problem. Deck storage bags for headsails eliminates downbelow storage congestion.

All told I had 9 sails. A "Spitfire Jib" (never needed it but it was tiny). An assym and a hank on drifter, both of these sails would fit in the space of a standard pillow each. A trisail, never used this one either. And finally a storm jib, never used this either, in self defense that is. The trisail, storm jib, spitfire and light air sails all fit in the starboard cockpit seat locker with room to spare. The non deckbag headsail just fit in the port side.

Normally when sailing I had either the genny or yankee hanked on and the other lashed to the lower lifeline ready for use. I had a reef added to the genny but only used it once. I had a reef added to the staysail and used it a couple of times and it was needed at those times. Perhaps better to have used the storm jib but tying in a reef was easier than changing the sail in the conditions at the time.

So after 35,000 miles and three years did I miss roller furling? Not at all. For me it was cost vs. reliability. I didn't have the extra money for a roller and for it's price I bought all my used e-Bay headsails.

On SunShine I gave away the old furler that came with the boat, to someone here on the board. The bearings were shot but replacable. I came from a time when furlers were not all that reliable and you know what, they still aren't. I have met many long term cruisers who have had problems with thier furlers, problems that could not be fixed at sea. Now that's a real problem when you are 1,000 miles into a 3,000 mile passage. The new systems are better than before and with at least annual maintenence should prove to be reliable. But they still cost $$$$.

BUT if I had the money to buy my perfect boat I would have furling on the headsail and staysail, cause other wise I do not think I could ever handle the headsails myself anymore. Getting old here. For now I can just handle SunShine's sails by myself. Again I rigged the boat as a cutter for that four sail flexibility that I use over 90% of the time. And no plans to change the setup in the future.

This is a very dependent question. There are no black and white or simple answers. Because it all depends...

Take care,
Fred

[Jim Walsh]

I have a furling headsail, a hanked on staysail, and a hanked on main. I just picked up my new furling yankee but I also have a high cut 110 and a low cut 135, both of which are perfectly serviceable. A PO installed the old Hood Seafurl unit and it works like a charm. I bathe the bearings in WD40 a couple times during the season and they appreciate the attention. My furling line is led back to the cockpit beside the helmsman to a winch, bronze of course on a bronze Spartan base just like my sheet winches, and there are times that I have actually appreciated the mechanical advantage. At 56 I'm reticent to hop around on the foredeck needlessly so my headsail changes tend to be infrequent though I am guilty of keeping too much sail for too long and love dipping the rail given the opportunity. Shortening sail by adjusting a furling line is a godsend at times. I have no reef in my new staysail and it's up or down, period. I love the fact that it's club footed so everything is self tacking once the headsail is furled. I could have added a furling unit since I was replacing my old staysail but decided to keep hanks on the replacement. I've got lazyjacks on the main and two reefs. I am in favor of putting a reef in the main if the breeze is sustained over 20 knots. The sail shape is great and the heeling moment is reduced but the speed through the water hardly seems affected. Both of my mainsails reefing lines are led through fairleads and camcleats and I have a winch mounted on the boom which can be used for either reefing line (since each is retained by the respective camcleat). Now was the opportunity, since I was buying new sails, to make a change but I'm happy with the present arrangement. Both of my new headsails have sewn on tack pendants of some new material said to be stronger than steel to replace the old stainless wire ones which should be easier on all concerned.

[ray b]

roller unfurling as I call them
and always at the very worst time/place
every boat I saw broken loose in our last few mini-canes or just storms
had a partly unrolled [at the top] sail

if you must have such a dangerous device

get a slotted foil so you can totally remove the sail
and change sails under way too
they do rip
and no half rolled up sail is a real storm jib
or a replacement for a real storm jib

roller furling is a nice summer toy
for a quick eazy daysail
but like all toys needs to be put away
when the real work needs to be done

[Steve Laume]

I believe the unintentional unfurling of jibs on rollers is not a design problem. I look closely at a lot of boats for all sorts of reasons. One thing that always stands out is the guy who leaves a tab of the jib flying when the boat is put away. The next level is to roll the sail only far enough for the clew crigle to be in contact with the sail.

If you do leave some jib unfurled it will not have UV protection and is just asking to be set free. When Raven is put away, the yankee is rolled up snug with tension on the working sheet while the furler line is brought in. When the lazy sheet gets to the head stay, both sheets are lightly tensioned and they get 3 to 4 wraps around the sail before they are made fast and the furling line is secured. The furling line is held by a cam cleat and then backed up by a couple of half hitches back over itself. If I am not going to be visiting the boat for some time or if high winds are predicted, the drum itself gets tied off. If really strong winds are predicted the sail comes down and is stowed below.

Furlers have proven themselves in all sorts of conditions but some sailors have not proven that they know how to use them, Steve.

[Jim Walsh]

I agree with Steve completely. I leave four wraps of the sheets around the furled sail and cleat the sheets with no slack in them whenever I leave the boat. If I snug down for a storm at the dock I remove the sail. The use of modern furling equipment is seamanlike, seaworthy and ocean proven.

[sharkbait]

I do everything listed but I also put a carabiner clip on the furling drum to preclude its rotation.

[Joe Myerson]

I do everything listed but I also put a carabiner clip on the furling drum to preclude its rotation.

If I'm going to be away from the boat for a while, I tie a sail tie around the furled jib, after wrapping the sheets at least twice around the furl.

Guess I'm being a belt-and-suspenders guy.

--Joe

[drysuit2]

If I'm going to be away from the boat for a while, I tie a sail tie around the furled jib, after wrapping the sheets at least twice around the furl.
Guess I'm being a belt-and-suspenders guy.
--Joe

Joe I think that it is a great idea, I do this every time I put the boat to bed. This is because if it does get really windy, I usually don't sail my CD.
I have been using the same Harken roller furling/reefing system for over 25 years with no problems. I have a 147 that was cut for me 3 years ago [with a foam luff] and older 150, [circa 1985], and a 100 I had converted from hank on to a grooved luff for the furler.
I always us the 147; it is just too convenient.
As far as Furling sails tearing, and furler failure; I think this has more to do with maintenance.
Replace your furler line at the first sign of wear.
Keep up your maintenance of the sacrificial foot and leech. Once UV breaks down the strength, it will tear; even rolled up.
As Joe says Roll it tight and put an extra sail tie on it.
Lubricate the bearings regularly, and keep the groove clean and lubricated.

Now for you aesthetics guys. You make a good point. Hank on’s do look pretty.
As far as the argument that you get a better sail shape with a hank on. I'm not buying it. You get a lot of turbulence if your leading edge is a wire, some un-aerodynamic hanks and a space in front of your luff. Most Roller Furling systems have a nice clean leading edge.
AND while your point about sailing a partially furled sail is correct... we are talking about a boat with a hull speed in the single digits. I suspect you could get more speed by keeping your hull clean, or reducing weight aloft.

{I picked to wrong winter to haul my boat, it was 63F yesterday}