SounDown acoustic insulation installation

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Jan 3rd, '11, 19:13

Oh please, this has come down to someone bragging about their academic credentials?

The sound proofing material I used works very well, seems many others have used it and find it works well also. So I could really care less about someone desiring to debate the fact using a degree from a school they wont even name to weakly back up their comments and makes useless comments about raising sails instead of installing sound proofing that does help. If you want to have silly fights, there are plenty of message boards on the internet to do that, this site is not one of them.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Jan 3rd, '11, 20:15

A few weeks ago I mentioned the fact that, among the partners of this forum, there was a dazzling panoply of members whose varied expertise would be amazing if, sans modesty, their talents were to be made known. Maybe humbleness would be a better word to use. It is true. I know several of these old coots, personally.

I'm not knocking advanced education. I think that it is a wonderful thing. Without any intention of bragging, I'll proudly mention the fact that I am a graduate Magna Cum Nauseum of Pringle University, lovingly called "PU".

I am still learning daily from my membership enrollment at SHK. This broadband learning establishment is more familiarly known as the "School Of Hard Knocks". Oh yeah.

But to digress from the heavy stuff to the lighter, present subject of noise insulation, in years past we used a slightly different approach. This was before the advent of West Marine and the like. We used a silver, metallic faced insulation that was/is used commercially to insulate metal air ducting. I might add that it was, maybe still is, much cheaper than what is advertised for use today

Best regards,
O J, MBS, XYZ, LMNOP, JIVE, C RATS etc. (and too many more degrees to list)

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Jan 3rd, '11, 20:25

Oswego John wrote: Without any intention of bragging, I'll proudly mention the fact that I am a graduate Magna Cum Nauseum of Pringle University, lovingly called "PU".

OJ, my friend, I can do you one better. I have always been a little disappointed in my limited number of years of "formal" education. However, I recently learned that I actually have 20 years of formal education. It seems that I "attended" (passed through my be more accurate) the 10th grade twice.

Not surprisingly, my 20 years of education have not helped much in my search for a Cape Dory 25D (or a CD 27)

I wish everyone a Safe, Happy, Prosperous, and Humorous New Year

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Jan 3rd, '11, 20:47

Robert,

Hey, my fickle friend. So now a CD 27 is within your search parameters.

If you are serious, I just might tickle your fickle mind by telling you that I know of a CD 27 in really cherry shape. This boat lacks nada, zip, zilch.

If you are interested, send me a PM and I can get in touch with the owner of this meticulously antiseptic yacht.

Sorry, there is a finder's fee, a cold bottle of brew

.

O J

WaywardWind · Post by **WaywardWind** » Jan 3rd, '11, 20:51

I shall finish my contribution to this subject with this statement.

Each and every person is free -- as always -- to take my advice and knowledge and use it as they wish .... or dump it in the wastebasket. Their choice.

That said, the only substitutions for cubic mass in sound attentuation are cubic feet or cognitive dissonance.

th - th- th- that's all, folks.

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Jan 3rd, '11, 20:57

Oswego John wrote:Sorry, there is a finder's fee, a cold bottle of brew .

OJ, hold out for single malt!

Troy Scott · Post by **Troy Scott** » Jan 4th, '11, 01:04

Six years ago I sailed on a new Robinhood 36. I was surprised to notice that the boat had no acoustic insulation in the engine compartment...

That's not going to stop me. I do understand the physics...., but the same physics is suggesting to me that I should do what I can to minimize noise in the boat. I realize that my success will be limited, and that's OK. If another sailor decides to forego efforts to reduce engine noise in his own boat, that's OK too.

I'm using the 1" mass loaded stuff because I happen to have two kits already. I need a little more, so I'll buy the one that is most like what I have but more reasonably priced, even though I have to add glue.

moctrams · Post by **moctrams** » Jan 4th, '11, 07:35

When my friends ask me to see my PHD, I take them to my shop and there it is against the wall, my Post Hole Digger.

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Jan 4th, '11, 09:36

On Raven there is no divider between the "engine room" and the under sink galley cabinet. This poses several problems.

I have not addressed the sound migration to this area. It is an obvious passage of sound to the interior of the cabin. The dampening material I have installed still made a tremendous difference. The other concern is that if you were to reach around in there with the engine running you might end up looking like a mid western farmer who pondered what would happen if he stuck a finger in there just a little bit. The Alt belt could do some serious damage!

An additional sound dampening consideration would be to seal off this area. I have looked at it and it seems rather difficult. One way to quiet things down might be to dampen the galley sink. Every year at the Defender sale there is a guy there with some spray sound dampening. He demonstrates metal objects that are treated and untreated. Imagine a bell. Strike it as is and then hold your hand on the rim. There is a vast difference and I believe this is what his product basically does. If you were to spray the under side of the sink this could make a significant improvement.

I never got to address this area last winter as I had a rather long list. I may get in there this winter and see what I can do. Currently the engine compartment is open to my under galley cabinet which allows the sound to migrate to the sink and the cockpit locker on the port side. This also gives a clear path to the fuel tank which could also amplify the sound. Sealing the passage to the fuel tank and cockpit locker should be relatively easy.

I believe sound dampening is all about the details, Steve.

Andy Denmark · Post by **Andy Denmark** » Jan 4th, '11, 19:04

Sound insulation was a key factor when I reworked Rhiannon's engine area, now a "compartment," so I understand. I used the 1-ft square panels from Sailor's Solutions and found they work well and are relatively easier to install than the other products I've used. The adhesive on the backs of these panels is so good that installing them is somewhat tricky as they stick tenaciaously to anything they touch -- and I emphasize "touch" here. Be careful that they first hit the places you ultimately want them to be forever!

There are fairly large "gaps" in this installation where it was impractical and in some cases, impossible, to get a completely sealed off enclosure. For instance, there's a 1-inch gap all along the bottom edge of the side and back panels to allow for hull flexure and water drainage. As a check after all was done, I stuffed some sponge strips in the cracks to see if that made a noticeable difference --- it did not so I took the loose stuff out

The galley sinks acts like a sounding board and I've tested it as a primary "sound leak." When I pack the sink with sponges the engine sound is noticeably reduced so I agree that insulating the sink is important and I will do so eventually (low priority now). (Steve, pick me up some of that sound stuff at the Defender sale and I'll gladly reimburse you! Sounds like an easy fix here).

Bottom line - - - this engine compartment rework is successful in many ways, sound deadening being one of them. I didn't have to do any engineering to ascertain this; these two old ears gave me all the decibel measurements I needed to figure out what worked and what didn't -- old fashioned real-life engineering. Now I can carry on conversation at normal voice levels in the cockpit while under power. Part of this is the new Beta engine that is inherently quieter than the older Westerbeke and part is the engine compartment and insulation. I'm not quite finished with the sound panels -- the back of the step module is still bare --- but everything I've done has made a positive difference in reducing the decibel level when the engine is running.

Hope this adds something to the thread despite the fact that my degree is from a relatively obscure engineering school.

FWIW
________
Yamaha Sy77 History

Steve Laume · Post by **Steve Laume** » Jan 5th, '11, 08:58

This is the Defender product I was talking about. The $124.00 price per gallon is probably why I didn't make the purchase. I probably need about a pint unless it goes on extremely thick and I have spray equipment so the sprayer is something else I wouldn't need.

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... &id=810792

Too bad they don't offer it in quarts, Steve.

Andy Denmark · Post by **Andy Denmark** » Jan 5th, '11, 09:39

Steve,

At that price and quantity I'm reneging on my request for that stuff. I'm going to try some of the aerosol sprayed urethane foam that's used to seal where pipes, etc. penetrate thru sub-flooring. The only problem is that this would have to be scraped off if the sink ever had to be removed. I can't see that as being a big issue in the future, aka, the rest of my life!

FWIW
________
GREEN CRACK PICTURES

The Cape Dory Board

SounDown acoustic insulation installation

CD 27

Finis

Re: CD 27

a new R36

PHD

I'll pass on the sink insulation