Sudden leak in bilge of my 25D

[Bob Ohler]

Dick, I would not re-drill until you identify the source of the leak. The diver will able to see where you drilled through if that is in fact the problem. If you drilled through the hull, I would suggest you haul the boat, let her dry out for a few days and then seal the hole. I am not too crazy of making anything more than a temporary/emergency repair while the boat is in the water.

Just my 2 cents.

We are all wishing you luck!

Bob O.

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Dick:

I was scared to drill small holes in the coach roof of my Ty Weekender for cam cleats so you can imagine my admiration at your willingness (reluctant though it may be) to redrill a hole in the bilge area.

I reread your initial post on this thread and you said you only drilled down about 1/2". I am on the side of those who think it implausible that you drilled through the hull after drilling down only 1/2". When you saw water coming out I am guessing it seemed like a lot because you were not expecting any. If it were me I would have felt like a gusher was entering my boat

There are many experts on this board. I am NOT one of them. Is it possible that the water that came out had been collecting and bottled up in the hull area around and below the bilge for a long time and that your small drill hole (3/32" is pretty small) just opened a very small relief hole for the built up water that may have been under some pressure If I recall your initial post, I think this was your first instinct when it happened. Before you applied a sealant to the hole did you notice if the water continued to come up at a steady rate or did it stop

As for a diver, if you do decide to redrill (I'm with the "don't redrill" group on this one) and you can stick a wire (or similar) in to see if it comes out the keel somewhere, I assume the Santa Cruz Yacht Harbor is like most marinas - visibility is 1'-2' maybe. I would recommend that you get a brightly colored wire (yellow, orange or white) so the diver will be better able to see it. The electrical guys on this board would know for sure but I am guessing you would need about 11-12 AWG or smaller wire to fit through a 3/32" hole. That's pretty thin gauge wire.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I am envious of everyone who owns a CD 25D. I remain in search of my own.

[bhartley]

The bottom of our 25D bilge is at the bottom of the keel. I would think a 1/2" deep hole would easily go through to the great outdoors. An air space would have no pressure to cause a 4-5" spurt. My money is on salt water -- not to be betting against you, but I would haul out and fix it if you are planning on a full sailing season ahead.

Good thing you had putty on board either way! I need to add that to my emergency kit if it isn't already there.

[Steve Laume]

Am I missing something here, or wouldn't a self tapping screw in the hole solve all the water intrusion problems without mucking everything up with a variety of sealants of limited effectiveness?

If you put a screw in the hole you could back it out and check on things if need be.

Was the gusher just a limited event? If you drilled into the void area and it had water in it, it may have only gushed out momentarily. It sounds like the hole either went out into the rest of the ocean or into the void area which was flooded. If there is continued pressure coming from the void then there are leaks into it from outside.

Either way you have a hole to fix. If there is a free flow of water into the void area, I would think you would want to stop that too.

It sucks to drill a hole in your boat and have it leak, Steve.

[RIKanaka]

I may be wrong but I think the bilge in my CD26 is similar to the CD25D in that it is just aft of the encapsulated lead keel and drops to about 2 feet below the cabin sole. Having just enlarged a 1/2 inch bolt hole near the base of the bilge, which served as a garboard drain, to a 1 inch hole to accept more formal garboard drain fitting, I can tell you that hull thickness is 1/2" or less on the side walls of the bilge. It may be, and I certainly hope it is, a bit thicker at the very base of the keel/bilge, but I'm thinking that you may well have drilled into the drink.

[d1trout]

Gentlemen, thanks for all the thoughtful comments on my bilge hole. Today I checked her again and found a very little bit of water in the bilge. It tasted salty. I then measured from the bottom of the bilge to the top of the hatch, took that number to a scaled drawing of the 25D I have among my effects and have concluded that I did indeed drill thru the bottom of the hull, compounding my original dismay. Dismay at drilling thru the hull and dismay that the glass lamination at the bottom is relatively thin. I can imagine hitting something uncharted, hard, at speed, and getting a hole that could be catastrophic, although this part of the keel is well back from the leading edge. Nonetheless, I'm determined to reinforce things as I have made a hole. I think I'll put a layer of roving, mat, and cloth in, with a resin-rich lamination, to seal and thicken that bilge. If I can't get the seep to stop altogether before I do this, I'll haul her and do the patch on the hard. That way I can address the outside of the hole as well. I'll keep you posted. The tip-off was that the glassed-in lead can be clearly seen forward of the bilge sump. And I recalled that in my previous boat, an S&S Dolphin 24, while the lead keel was bolted on the outside, it was in much the same place as the glassed-in CD lead keel.
I think I'll still set a bolt upside down into the lamination to attach the bilge pump to. I don't care for the idea of it being free in the bilge.
Thanks again for all your excellent comments.
Dick
Dick

[Bob Ohler]

Dick,
I think you have to face the brutal fact that you have a hole through the hull. I am not sure you need a scale drawing to confirm this. A drawing is the Naval Architect's /Builder's plan. There is no guarantee that the fiberglass is going to actually be laid to the exact specifications of the drawing. The glass might be .45" thick or .60" thick depending on the person laying the hull in the factory the day your boat was made in the 1980's. Now, can you tell me you drilled exactly .500" deep, or could it have been a shade more?
In my opinion and if the the boat belonged to me I would haul, get the area dried-out and then do the repair.
If you don't repair it correctly, what are you going to tell a prospective buyer some day?

Good luck!

Bob O.

[Sea Hunt]

Dismay at drilling thru the hull and dismay that the glass lamination at the bottom is relatively thin. I can imagine hitting something uncharted, hard, at speed, and getting a hole that could be catastrophic . . .

Wow. Only 1/2" of protection To me that is very scary. One of the things I have learned to love (or thought I loved) about Cape Dory is their durability and strength.

I have a question for the experts on this board. Dick has concluded he drilled thru his hull at only 1/2". Are all or most of our CD hulls, regardless of model, only 1/2" thick , especially in the keel area RIKananka's post suggest his hull is also only 1/2" thick on his CD 26.

If the answer is "yes", that seems like very, very little protection against what Dick accurately refers to as a "catastrophic holing". I sail in Biscayne Bay. If I hit something, it is probably going to be soft muck. No problem. But what of those who sail along the Maine coast - rocks, big rocks or the Bahamas where there are a lot of shallow, uncharted coral heads

I remain in active search mode for a CD 25D that I would like to sail in the Bahamas. To me, a rookie, this is scary information.

[David van den Burgh]

Wow. Only 1/2" of protection To me that is very scary. One of the things I have learned to love (or thought I loved) about Cape Dory is their durability and strength.

I agree that most of us appreciate the CD's durability and strength and subscribe to the "thicker is better" philosophy, but, really, how many CDs have had a hole punched through the bottom? I haven't heard of any. Now, if there were a rash of reported holings, I might begin to worry.

Regarding your question about hull thickness, I'm in the process of replacing the depth and speed transducers on Ariel, a CD36, and in both spots the hull is 1" thick. Here are two pictures of the area.





Edited to add this photo:

Raw water intake.

Other thruhull replacements have revealed similar thicknesses.

[RIKanaka]

Wow. Only 1/2" of protection To me that is very scary. One of the things I have learned to love (or thought I loved) about Cape Dory is their durability and strength.

Measured the thickness yesterday at the site of my garboard drain. It's actually 3/8". Your thickness may vary.

[rtbates]

I have no idea how thick the hull may be in any area, BUT I do know that 'Brezzy" washed across a reef in the Pacific and nary a hole. So maybe it's just drills that we need to be afraid of.

A good method of mounting stuff to ANY fg surface is to use 5200/4200 to attach a mounting block to the fg. NO screws needed and then screw the object to the block. And for the bilge pump, I bet you'll find that the 3/4 discharge hose can be routed and secured such that the pump at the end won't move much at all.

My strum box is mounted in the bilge held only by the 3/4 discharge hose and it ain't going anywhere. The bilge switch is screwed to a piece of 'cement board' that is attached to the bilge side with 5200 only,,,

[d1trout]

Well, four days of careful watching has seen the seep related to the hole I drilled stop entirely. I have scheduled a haulout for Tuesday AM and will then drill out the original epoxy putty material, dry everything out completely and replace it with fresh, carefully-applied putty that completely fills the hole. Per the consensus here, I'm mounting the bilge pump on a base that I'll 5200 onto the bottom of the sump. SG's bilge normally stays completely dry except for deliberate drainging from the sink or shower. I like being able to keep it that way and anything that will facilitate the cleaning is to be desired.

I guess the moral of the story is that it's good to be aware that the floor of the sump goes directly out to the ocean and is not very thick. I'll take a careful measurement of the thickness and post it next week.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I'm paying my dues to become a full-fledged member today!
Dick

[miquelkumar]

Hi Dick. For anyone interested, my dad and I are the previous owners of stargazer and got to know Dick through the purchase and still keep in touch.

Anyway, I can't image you drilled through the hull. If I remember correctly the bottom of the bilge is about 6" wide and the turn of the bilge is not that drastic. If you remember when she was out of the water there is a through hull for the depth transducer mounted on a tapered block of wood to orient the transducer vertical. This thing (installed prior to our purchase) has alway bothered me and I planned on removing and filling the hole in the hull. This wood block has always been very saturated when we hauled (twice). We would coat the wood with a heavy dose of west system epoxy which would be gone when hauled after 2 years. Take a look below the galley storage and see if there's any hint of this being the culprit.

Good luck and keep me informed.
Mike
Joe Toe - CD28
San Diego