This bulletin board, hosted by the CDSOA, Inc., is the on-line meeting place for all Cape Dory owners and groups. We welcome everyone's questions, answers and comments about Cape Dory sailboat
Troy Scott wrote:I'll have to add that if I were in a small Cape Dory well away from land and my chainplates came loose, I think I might be in just as serious a fix as someone in a failing airplane at 30,000 feet.
I'd pick the Cape Dory.
No question, failure of the rig is serious but there are lots of examples of jury-rigged boats that survived and completed their voyages, if not to the intended destination at least to safety.
If you stay out of the lee of the rig, chances are the mast won't fall on your head. Be careful clearing away the mess though and that the broken off mast doesn't spear the hull. If you can get that done you can ride out your storm in a sound hull.
So how exactly do you ride out your problem in a doomed airplane?
Neil wrote: "So how exactly do you ride out your problem in a doomed airplane?"
Neil, I've had a few instances when a serious problem developed in the airplane I was flying. The worst was when the engine seized and I had to seriously stretch the glide to get to the edge of a tiny airport. The airplane was substantially damaged but three guys and a dog survived just fine. There are thousands of instances where similar things happen and everybody walks away..., mainly because the training takes these possibilities into account. These instances when nobody gets hurt rarely make the news. But the media loves to sensationalize airplane accidents. It's annoying.....
We were talking about aluminum in a marine environment, and the official NTSB report concluded that the failure was caused by metal fatigue exacerbated by crevice corrosion (operating in a salt water environment). Kinda sounds like the environment we operate in.
All I was saying, was, if you go the aluminum plate route, be aware of any SS that might touch it, and what can happen. Yes, plenty of crews have survived being demasted, but it does ruin one's day (and trip), doesnt it? And if you are already in there, working on them, its your option if you want to take steps to prevent the reaction from taking place. Just something to think about.
Troy Scott wrote:Weeeeellllll...,
Sorry about starting this boat-airplane analogy thing..., it's a bad habit I guess. But.......
I'll have to add that if I were in a small Cape Dory well away from land and my chainplates came loose, I think I might be in just as serious a fix as someone in a failing airplane at 30,000 feet. (Of course I'm talking about a failure of something other than a major control surface or a wing.) Especially if the failure happens in a storm (that's probably when it would happen) and more especially if the mast fell on my head! All this written respectfully and while smiling.... In other words, a dismasting at sea in a storm is about like losing the engine in a single-engine airplane. It's survivable, but only if you act quickly and don't panic. It is serious. And corrosion really doesn't know whether it's in an airplane or on a boat, especially if it's a seaplane!
Troy,
I can't fly, but I can swim.
Every best wish,
Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster (where we mean no harm), VA
Bill Goldsmith wrote:
"Are the bolts that attach the deck padeyes to the deck (and through the deck and backing plates) stainless or bronze?"
The bolts in question in my CD36 are SS. Here's another bit of related and interesting information: According to the instructions from Edson, the big bolts that hold the pedestal in place are supposed to be aluminum. Mine are SS. These big SS bolts through-bolt the pedestal base to the big cast aluminum frame on the underside of the cockpit sole. I'm not fond of aluminum bolts, but that IS what was used for this same purpose in my last boat. It doesn't seem to have caused a problem, but I've often wondered why Cape Dory decided to use SS.
I've removed all the hardware that was bolted through the deck. Much of it had aluminum backing plates. In many cases the backing plate was tapped and threaded so the SS bolts actually had no washer and nut on the bottom. The bolts were just threaded into the aluminum and ground off flush with the bottom. Even though, from an engineering perspective this is less than ideal, it seems to have worked OK in the areas where the aluminum stayed absolutely dry. However, the aluminum plates under the big winches and the associated cleats on top of the coamings had corroded severely in 20 years. All of the bolts had seized, and I destroyed the cleats in the process of drilling this mess out. This was after I had tried every other trick I know to get them loose. This method of installing hardware was clearly not a very good plan. I believe that anytime SS is bolted to or through aluminum, some kind of INSULATING anti-seize should be applied to the contacting threads and washers, etc.. I'll be reinstalling this hardware using nice thick fiberglass backing plates and regular SS locking nuts and fender washers. In some cases I'll use bronze nuts and bolts. I do hope this hasn't come across sounding like a rant..... I do love my Cape Dory 36.
Last edited by Troy Scott on Jun 12th, '08, 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
On my mast I use Silicone sealant. So far it has worked fine. I noticed when I did some mast work about 5 years ago that any bolt that had silicone came out clean and the aluminum was uncorroded. Every one that did not have silicone was seized or nearly seized in. I have followed the silicone practice ever since.
I too use silicone a lot. I have not used it as anti-seize, but it's an interesting idea. It is certainly an excellent insulator. I do know that not all silicones are alike. Some silicones have components which will cause corrosion in surrounding metal, especially if the space is not well ventilated during the curing process. Some others don't have this problem. I know that some silicones are safe for aquarium assembly, while others will kill the fish even years later. If I were going to use silicone on metal, I think I would probably use one that is certified safe for aquarium use.
A rigger I used back in Annapolis used 4200 on SS fasteners before screwing them into aluminium. Since seeing that I have used it myself each time I have had to use SS fasteners in aluminium. To date I have yet to need to remove any of these, but I suspect it will certainly make life easier.
I have at several points removed some factory origonal hardware, as said SS fasteners in aluminium are common in our boats. But the only place I have run into serious problems is mast and boom fittings, which almost always need to be drilled out. Deck hardware I have had zero problem with seizing(much to my suprise), perhaps I am lucky in that the origonal bedding held up longer on this boat keeping the water out.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
Thanks for not being offended by my little joke. I did get a kick out of it. My immediate mental image was of some really strong, super-hero types that would be like having electric winches with wings. Speaking of electric winches.....wow. Seriously out of my price range....., unless I somehow strike it rich.
With this discussion of chain plate backing material, I checked a Cape Dory 30, 1985. This boat has the aluminum backing system. So maybe all of the boats changed in the early 80's. I will continue to try to get more details on what changed and when.
Thanks for pointing it out.