Lazy Jacks & Reefing

[Andy Denmark]

One of the common faults of some main reefing systems (there's that word again) is the use of so-called "reefing hooks" at the tack of the main. These things are responsible for a lot of reefing-related sail damage because the sail will sometimes come out of them. Then pressure rips out the reef ties almost instantaneously with serious tearing usually as a result. This sounds like the problems Dalton referenced.

So what it the better option? Of course, a big shackle thru the clew grommet will work (offshore cruisers) or the standard method whereby a line is led from an eyestrap below the gooseneck, up through the clew grommet, and down to a horn cleat opposite the aforementioned eyestrap. Of course, you must be sure to make the reefing line fast to this cleat with a correct hitch or it can slip loose with sail destruction as a result. (there are experienced sailors who still don't know how to properly secure a line to a cleat!)

Anyway, I thought I'd throw this into the mix since it relates to the topic.
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PERCOCET REHAB ADVICE

[Dean Abramson]

Andy,

I am glad you brought that up. On my three boats, I have never used the reefing horn(s) through the sail's cringle. It always looked to me that that is bad for the sail. And I think with my new, still pretty stiff main, it would be a struggle.

I just tie a piece of line with a bowline on each end, and it just hangs permanently in the forward cringle. I lower the main and then hook each loop of the bowline on the hooks, then raise the sail. Of course, you can do this with just one bowline (stopper knot on the other end) and one hook, but my method distributes the load evenly. Necessarily, the piece of line for the second reef has to be a little longer, as it will be reaching past more unused sail. Its easy, low tech, and cheap. On my boats there has been a horn on each side.

Dean

[Solmar]

Our previous boats have had a piece of webbing with rings on either end. We knew there was something missing, but were not exactly sure what it was. Thanks to this thread our problem is now solved!

Brian & Debbie

[Andy Denmark]

Brian & Debbie's ring system is the proper way to go if you must use hooks because you don't have to twist the sail askew to get the hook into the grommet. This is pretty standard in the (quality) sail business. It's an easy addition to any reef cringle ~ a ring on each side of the sail joined thru the grommet by heavy strapping. Dean's method is essentially this same thing using line.

This does not eliminate the problem, though. The ring can still fall off of the hook. Envision the entire system we're talking about, basically a rubber band stretched over the top of a mast with a sail on one side and a taught halyard the other. Well, you say, the halyard is taught so what's the problem? Here it is: halyard stretch is most of it, to wit:

Using a CD-27 as an example, the masthead-to-halyard-winch distance is roughly 30 ft. Standard "el cheapo" Dacron has a 2-1/2% stretch factor. That translates to 9 inches of stretch. (30 X 12" = 360" X .025 = 9") Add to that the stretch in the sailcloth of + 3" or so in 30' and you get 12" of elongation from the halyard winch to the tack of the mainsail. It doesn't take rocket science to see that 12 inches of slack on a open hook, pulse loaded with a flogging sail, will shake or fall right out. Couple this with rain or spray that exacerbates stretching of both halyard and sail and the problem becomes more obvious. Only the friction of the sail slides keeps this from being immediately dangerous. If the reefing method at the tack gives up then the luff goes upward as there is nothing restraining it now, the sail pressure is transferred to the reef ties, and it's kiss-your-mainsail-goodbye time when the ties rip out.

The solution to this is pretty simple but it ain't cheap. Buy the best non-stretch halyards you can get and the problem is 99% resolved. Use bargain basement halyards and you've got a potential problem. Not only that, with low-stretch halyards your sail shape will remain stable, resulting in better performance. Wire halyards, until the advent of better line technology (and aramid fibers), were used almost exclusively on serious boats for this very reason. Besides, the non-stretch line is much smaller in diameter for the same tensile strength, thereby reducing windage.

While the non-stretch line is difficult to cleat sometimes that is a cheap price to pay for the benefits gained. Line stoppers have helped the cleating problem as they have evolved to take higher stresses.

This is like most of sailing (and life, too); you gets what you pays for (or you might pay a dearer price). Like the old commercial says, "Pay me now or pay me later."
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EASY VAPE

[Jim Davis]

Much of this is based on sloop rigged boats. I started ownership with a CD 25 and then an Alberg 30, but have sailed quite a few other boats. For reefing I like to be close to the wind. It is much easier to lower the main when it is luffing than full, also trying to get the halyard set back up can be a bear if you are the only one available to do it. I often have only my wife on board, so she is driving, while I am at the mast. Also I want as much of the boom over the deck as possible. It can be exciting enough without having to hang over the side. Like Andy, I tie the luff down, not using a hook. I then re set the halyard and haul the sail out. If I am only using the first reef I may not tie in the reef points, but if I am using a second reef, I do tie them in to keep the excess material under control. If I am going to the second reef put the first one in before going to the second, for the same reason. Reefing off the wind is for racing crews with lots of young mussel.

With my current boat, a ketch, life is easier, I just get rid of the main. The only time I have reefed the ketch has been on a broad reach, close hauled she does well Jib and Jigger.

[Len]

I believe Dean that you once mentioned you would like more practice reefing while sailing alone. The description below applies to vessels that have halyards and reef lines at the mast and not to boasts with all led to the cockpit . Lets do this reefing step by step.(a single handed version)
1. Furl the yankee (or genoa, jib whichever name you prefer- although on your boat I believe its a Yankee - a high cut jib).
2.Come into the wind if you are not already hove to or otherwise stationary.
3. Put some slack in the main sheet.(Just enough so that you can raise the boom topping lift.
5.At the mast loosen the main halyard and lower the sail to the reefing cringle and attach .
6. Pull in (raise)the topping lift - this helps prevent tears in the sail if you haul too hard in the next step and makes it easier to haul in the reefing line
7.Pull in on reefing line ( be sure you are using the same one that matches the cringle (ie reef point 1 ,2 or 3) Secure the line.
8.Release the (boom) topping lift.
9.Tie off the reef points around the sail ,not the boom.
9.Now for the staysail. If you planned on reefing the staysail before you left the cockpit then you would have eased the sheets for the staysail at the same time.
10.At the mast,lower the staysail halyard (preferably to a premarked point on the line and tie off.
11, Pull in the reefing lines and tie off ( I have a downhaul line on the luff of the staysail as well as a reefing line on the leech both of which pass though blocks and tie off on staysail boom cleats.
12 Return to cockpit and tighten main and staysail as required.
Come practice on Minke if you would like.

If you have altered your boat to have lines into the cockpit than the procedure will be different. (IMHO having all lines led to the cockpit doesn't prevent your having to go to the mast as things always need adjusting. )

Len

[Neil Gordon]

>>The solution to this is pretty simple but it ain't cheap. Buy the best non-stretch halyards you can get and the problem is 99% resolved. <<

If you're worried about a ring slipping off a hook, just rig a downhaul through the ring and secure it. Search the bottom of your sail lockers for some spare stuff and fix the problem for free.

[Warren Kaplan]

I don't use any hooks for reefing. I use lines that come back to the cockpit to reef my sails. One for the tack reef cringle and one for the clew reef cringle. I can reef my sails in about 30 seconds without ever leaving the cockpit.

I use good quality lines to take care of the stretch problem as my all knowledgable friend Andy advised! Works great for me!!

[Dean Abramson]

Len,

I would definitely like to sail with you this summer. Let's do it.

I very much appreciate everyone's input on this. Andy, I see what you are saying; I have never had the bowlines slip off the hooks, though. But on this bigger boat, with longer halyards, there will be more halyard stretch, so I will be watching for that.

Dean

[Al Levesque]

The answer to your question is that with lazy jacks and full length battens you should not have reef points installed in the sail. As for using the hooks at the gooseneck, do it. They work well and I have never seen a sail fall off the hooks once the halyard is tensioned, winched, and cleated. If the sail falls off the hook you have a different problem somewhere.

I use two different approaches to reefing underway. I someone is available and wishes to "steer" I let them sail close to the wind with the jib in tight while I reef the main. If I am alone as usual, or no one wants to steer, I backwind the jib, lash the helm to windward, and then reef the main.

[Sea Hunt]

Hello Al:

I am a tadpole/rookie sailor so please forgive this question, but with a backwinded jib wouldn't you lash the helm to leeward so that you are "hove to" and can then reef the main

On the small Harbor 20s that we race, when we need to reef (which is not often), whether at the dock pre race or during the races, we attach a long sail tie through the cringle at the luff of the main, wrapping once or twice around both the mast and the gooseneck. As I understand it this keeps the main tight to the mast and boom and prevents it from "ripping out". We do not have hooks on the gooseneck, at least not that I have observed.

Some of the Harbor 20s have lazy jacks. Some do not. Regardless, we tie in 3-4 reef lines around the sail (never the boom) with one of these reef line through the clew cringle.

Again, I am a rookie and a tadpole so the above may not correct. If not, my apologies in advance.

[John Vigor]

I use two different approaches to reefing underway. I someone is available and wishes to "steer" I let them sail close to the wind with the jib in tight while I reef the main. If I am alone as usual, or no one wants to steer, I backwind the jib, lash the helm to windward, and then reef the main.

Al, I think you must mean you lash the helm to leeward (rudder to windward). For instance, if you lash a tiller to windward and then backwind the jib you will have a very exciting time, running off and jibing out of control, going round and round frantically in ever-decreasing circles until you finally disappear up your own . . . no, that was a bird on the Wild West Show, wasn't it?

Cheers,

John Vigor

[Andy Denmark]

To those attempting to email me, my server is "upgrading" to Google email and it is not letting me send out replies to your emails. They say "2 or 3 days" of this sort of service. Frustrating!

Chase, Jim, Robert, take note.

Al, "never say never." We repaired too many sails that fell victim to this for it to be a fluke. Then again, most were reasonably green sailors so maybe it is a technique thing. The dynamics still apply, though.

Robert, the helm tries to turn the boat into the wind and the backed jib won't let it go, trapping the boat betwixt and between. That's what "hove to" is. I guess heaving to is the process of achieving this configuration (or perhaps something a seasick person does over the lee rail?) Anyway, you have the idea ........
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FALCON

[Carl Thunberg]

Robert, I believe you can safely dispense of the term "tadpole". A tadpole would not have noticed that Al made an honest mistake and got windward/leeward reversed.

Dean, great topic. I now have lazy jacks and have been wondering about this too, since my battens get caught in the lazy jacks unless I'm pointed directly into the wind when I lower sail. Since I just got Leona Pearl in August, every time I've reefed so far, It's been while raising sail, so I haven't had to deal with this yet.

[Warren S]

wheel to windward, tiller to leeward