Thanks for advise and encouragement.
"Mr. Sea Hunt"
Moving or transporting a Ty Weekender
Moderator: Jim Walsh
hull speed
I wasn't talking about 35 mph Don't know what hull speed is on that boat but-- he probably will not make hull speed under either sail or power or a combination of the two for the entire distance (average)--a stout stinkpot can make it happen. It was just a thought --
If the boat moves--it will move by land or by sea (air is probably out of the question). By land, it must have a suitable trailer and tow vehicle. By sea it can: sail, motor, combination of sail/motor or be towed (or one of those ships that takes boats onboard--probably not).
In any event, the big thing is "control"-- If you aren't in control of the vessel, then don't take it out. Our little CD22 is giving me a whole new out look. It's a lot of work sailing a little boat
100 miles for a big boat is nothing--for a little boat--its a big deal! Add to that, you don't have the comforts of home 
I ask myself-- would I sail an unfamiliar Very small boat (no head and no galley and no generator--the list goes on) 100 miles down an unfamiliar, alligator infested waterway. I would not . I took the question downstairs, however, and he said he would 
No accounting for taste In any case, he would have to do it ALONE. I would call the shipper
Don't know what hull speed is on that boat but-- he probably will not make hull speed under either sail or power or a combination of the two for the entire distance (average)--a stout stinkpot can make it happen. It was just a thought -- If the boat moves--it will move by land or by sea (air is probably out of the question). By land, it must have a suitable trailer and tow vehicle. By sea it can: sail, motor, combination of sail/motor or be towed (or one of those ships that takes boats onboard--probably not).
In any event, the big thing is "control"-- If you aren't in control of the vessel, then don't take it out. Our little CD22 is giving me a whole new out look. It's a lot of work sailing a little boat
100 miles for a big boat is nothing--for a little boat--its a big deal! Add to that, you don't have the comforts of home I ask myself-- would I sail an unfamiliar Very small boat (no head and no galley and no generator--the list goes on) 100 miles down an unfamiliar, alligator infested waterway. I would not
. I took the question downstairs, however, and he said he would No accounting for taste In any case, he would have to do it ALONE. I would call the shipper 
Get a chart kit
And a cruising guide that covers the area. Mine are not available to me right now, but assuming the boat is in Marco Island and you are going to Key Largo it is doable in about four 30-40 mile days. Between Marco and Largo there is one marina and it is at Flaming (run as part of the Park, check to make sure it is open and has gas.
The trip could be from Marco to Indian Key (anchor) to Shark River(anchor) to Flamingo and then on to Largo. With a Ty's draft there shouldn't be any problems. The two biggest I see are fuel and mosquitoes. Indian Key and Shark River I have done, but with my draft I can't do Flamingo.
Get a chart kit and guide then make the decision. It shouldn't be a bad trip, it will be scenic and much of the coast untouched by man. A good VHF would be a requirement as you will be out of cell contact most of the trip.
Look at it as an adventure and opportunity, do it.
The trip could be from Marco to Indian Key (anchor) to Shark River(anchor) to Flamingo and then on to Largo. With a Ty's draft there shouldn't be any problems. The two biggest I see are fuel and mosquitoes. Indian Key and Shark River I have done, but with my draft I can't do Flamingo.
Get a chart kit and guide then make the decision. It shouldn't be a bad trip, it will be scenic and much of the coast untouched by man. A good VHF would be a requirement as you will be out of cell contact most of the trip.
Look at it as an adventure and opportunity, do it.
Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei
S/V Isa Lei
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 11:22
- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
Enough already!
Hey Sea Hunt:
Like Father John (how's that for an honorific?), may my prayers and blessings go with you!
And, like him, I say, "don't worry about a little outboard gurgle." My first sailboat to have auxiliary power was an O'Day Mariner with a 6-hp Johnson. I always singlehanded, and when I went forward to drop the jib or anchor or grab my mooring, the water intake would pop out of the water.
After a few close calls, I learned to move quickly on the foredeck (and to pull the anchor up from the stern if needed).
Good luck!
--Joe
Like Father John (how's that for an honorific?), may my prayers and blessings go with you!
And, like him, I say, "don't worry about a little outboard gurgle." My first sailboat to have auxiliary power was an O'Day Mariner with a 6-hp Johnson. I always singlehanded, and when I went forward to drop the jib or anchor or grab my mooring, the water intake would pop out of the water.
After a few close calls, I learned to move quickly on the foredeck (and to pull the anchor up from the stern if needed).
Good luck!
--Joe
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
Re: hull speed
It's not a 100 mile trip, really. It's a series of 25 mile trips and I agree with the comment that rest days here and there are a good idea. 25 mile legs in a Ty are safely handled within predictable weather windows.trapper wrote:I ask myself-- would I sail an unfamiliar Very small boat (no head and no galley and no generator--the list goes on) 100 miles down an unfamiliar, alligator infested waterway.
As for "unfamiliar," I would do some shake down day sailing first, to get comfy with the boat and also to see that sails and rigging sail and rig the way they are supposed to. After that, assuming the boat surveyed well and is sound, it's not that complicated.
I don't think this is a novice cruise, but with experienced crew, it's the right way to bring the boat (which Sea Hunt will buy or we'll likely keel haul him) home.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
Marco Island, to Key Largo? Disregard my first post!
After Jim mentioned Marco Island I decided to look it up. What do I know about Florida! You want to sail past the EVERGLADES in a Ty?
It looks like an exciting, adventures trip in a Ty and a little bit too bold for my blood!
A bigger boat, more fuel, a few onboard conveniences, OK I'm in but in a Ty?
Jim said there were a couple of anchorages and a park that "may have" fuel .
I can just picture myself getting ready for this trip. I would over plan so much to the extreme I doubt if everything would fit in the Ty! Especially the fuel I'd want to take.
Which brings up the local weather.
Some one already asked, but what would you expect the prevailing winds to be?
All the best
Gary
A trailer is sounding pretty good to me!
It looks like an exciting, adventures trip in a Ty and a little bit too bold for my blood!
A bigger boat, more fuel, a few onboard conveniences, OK I'm in but in a Ty?
Jim said there were a couple of anchorages and a park that "may have" fuel .
I can just picture myself getting ready for this trip. I would over plan so much to the extreme I doubt if everything would fit in the Ty! Especially the fuel I'd want to take.
Which brings up the local weather.
Some one already asked, but what would you expect the prevailing winds to be?
All the best
Gary
A trailer is sounding pretty good to me!
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Moving Or Transporting A Ty
Gary M,
You're a man of my own heart. I think that you are starting to realize what others are advising Seahunt.
How does one disagree in a polite manner. We used to say"In all due respect sir ...." Oh whatever.
For every reason offered for him to motor/sail to Key Largo, I might have two valid reasons for him not to
Some of the suggestions given were not to sail alone. He should have one or more as crew.
He should, arbitrarily, allow for at least four days and allow a window for inclement weather, five days minimum the way I read it.
I don't know how many of you guys are aware of this area around the southwest Florida horn. It is, to say the least, barren and dismal. It is one huge nature preserve with sea birds, flamingoes, gators, snakes and MOSQUITOES. Compared to this area, Tierra Del Fuego is bustling. Get rid of the concept of a marina every ten miles or so.
Next item. I notice that most of the posters own mid to large size CDs. Let's pause now for a reality check. Seahunt is talking about a Ty, all of 18 1/2 feet long. The cockpit sole is barely two feet wide at it's widest point and fades to nothing before it reaches the aft end of the cockpit. And we're talking about possibly three people confined in that hull for maybe five days if everything goes right.
Meals, very important, very necessary, a morale booster. So what about meals and foodstuff for possibly three people, maybe two. Where are any perishables stored. There are no facilities on board a Ty that I'm aware of. Maybe a large Coleman type ice locker could be brought along. It shouldn't get in the way of two or three seabags, rain gear We could store it in the sleeping quarters, a vee berth for two. But what will we cook the food with?
I hope the ice chest will keep ice for five days at least. That sun is hot when it's out. It makes a person mighty thirsty for a COLD drink. Four or five days worth.
Ah, the toilet facilities. We've got a porta-potty. I hope it holds out for the crew for four, five days. Maybe more. Are we planning on towing a dinghy for shore leave. Don't forget mosquito repellent. Speaking of mosquitoes, are we anchoring in protected waters or off shore. Did we remember to bring mosquito netting. Anyone bring sunscreen?
While we are on the subject of remembering to bring sundry equipment, we must not forget to bring something to fashion into a poor man's bimini. Four, five or more days under the south Florida sun can do a number on a person. I hope it will be waterproof. Those little black clouds that come out of nowhere can really dump some rain.
Did we bring a VFR to contact Key West if need be?
If we hug the coast of the Bay Of Florida and head due east, the trip from Marco Island to Key Largo is about 110 miles. There is nothing in this area. If you decide to sail across Florida Bay from west of Flamingo to Indian Key/Long Key area, the distance is about 50 miles across open water, a full days trip. By sailing across the Bay, it brings you back to civilization and safety. From there, you can follow US 1 northeast to Key Largo. That route is about 150 miles.
Did I mention the south Florida lightning storms while away from civilization? We'll just shorten sail, set the autotiller and go below to play Trivial Pursuit. Peesa cake.
O J
I hope everyone realizes that this was written with tongue in cheek. However, it's very possible, even moreso, probable.
I have one other unpleasantry to report. After four, five or more days and nights confined to the charming quarters of a Ty, please have the crew try to keep their distance from one another. They are, in a word, going to be RIPE. Try to stand to windward of the others.
OR
If the Ty is put on a borrowed or rented trailer and you left Marco Island at 8:00 AM, you could have lunch at Key Largo. A three to three and a half hour trip and be able to go sailing that same afternoon.
As far as having a hauler move the boat for you for $1,800.00 to $2,200.00, you could buy a used trailer for half that amount, use it as long as you want and then sell it.
The journey in a Ty is doable, but not for me. I've been sailing a Ty for a long time now. I have a pretty good idea for what it's limitations are limitations. Say what you want. I say that it's not a suitable craft for a group to take an extended trip in. It's just not designed for cruising.
BTW, one of the things that bothered me when sailing for a long period in a Ty is I couldn't stand up, stretch or get any exercise.
Have a good autumn weekend,
O.J
You're a man of my own heart. I think that you are starting to realize what others are advising Seahunt.
How does one disagree in a polite manner. We used to say"In all due respect sir ...." Oh whatever.
For every reason offered for him to motor/sail to Key Largo, I might have two valid reasons for him not to
Some of the suggestions given were not to sail alone. He should have one or more as crew.
He should, arbitrarily, allow for at least four days and allow a window for inclement weather, five days minimum the way I read it.
I don't know how many of you guys are aware of this area around the southwest Florida horn. It is, to say the least, barren and dismal. It is one huge nature preserve with sea birds, flamingoes, gators, snakes and MOSQUITOES. Compared to this area, Tierra Del Fuego is bustling. Get rid of the concept of a marina every ten miles or so.
Next item. I notice that most of the posters own mid to large size CDs. Let's pause now for a reality check. Seahunt is talking about a Ty, all of 18 1/2 feet long. The cockpit sole is barely two feet wide at it's widest point and fades to nothing before it reaches the aft end of the cockpit. And we're talking about possibly three people confined in that hull for maybe five days if everything goes right.
Meals, very important, very necessary, a morale booster. So what about meals and foodstuff for possibly three people, maybe two. Where are any perishables stored. There are no facilities on board a Ty that I'm aware of. Maybe a large Coleman type ice locker could be brought along. It shouldn't get in the way of two or three seabags, rain gear We could store it in the sleeping quarters, a vee berth for two. But what will we cook the food with?
I hope the ice chest will keep ice for five days at least. That sun is hot when it's out. It makes a person mighty thirsty for a COLD drink. Four or five days worth.
Ah, the toilet facilities. We've got a porta-potty. I hope it holds out for the crew for four, five days. Maybe more. Are we planning on towing a dinghy for shore leave. Don't forget mosquito repellent. Speaking of mosquitoes, are we anchoring in protected waters or off shore. Did we remember to bring mosquito netting. Anyone bring sunscreen?
While we are on the subject of remembering to bring sundry equipment, we must not forget to bring something to fashion into a poor man's bimini. Four, five or more days under the south Florida sun can do a number on a person. I hope it will be waterproof. Those little black clouds that come out of nowhere can really dump some rain.
Did we bring a VFR to contact Key West if need be?
If we hug the coast of the Bay Of Florida and head due east, the trip from Marco Island to Key Largo is about 110 miles. There is nothing in this area. If you decide to sail across Florida Bay from west of Flamingo to Indian Key/Long Key area, the distance is about 50 miles across open water, a full days trip. By sailing across the Bay, it brings you back to civilization and safety. From there, you can follow US 1 northeast to Key Largo. That route is about 150 miles.
Did I mention the south Florida lightning storms while away from civilization? We'll just shorten sail, set the autotiller and go below to play Trivial Pursuit. Peesa cake.
O J
I hope everyone realizes that this was written with tongue in cheek. However, it's very possible, even moreso, probable.
I have one other unpleasantry to report. After four, five or more days and nights confined to the charming quarters of a Ty, please have the crew try to keep their distance from one another. They are, in a word, going to be RIPE. Try to stand to windward of the others.
OR
If the Ty is put on a borrowed or rented trailer and you left Marco Island at 8:00 AM, you could have lunch at Key Largo. A three to three and a half hour trip and be able to go sailing that same afternoon.
As far as having a hauler move the boat for you for $1,800.00 to $2,200.00, you could buy a used trailer for half that amount, use it as long as you want and then sell it.
The journey in a Ty is doable, but not for me. I've been sailing a Ty for a long time now. I have a pretty good idea for what it's limitations are limitations. Say what you want. I say that it's not a suitable craft for a group to take an extended trip in. It's just not designed for cruising.
BTW, one of the things that bothered me when sailing for a long period in a Ty is I couldn't stand up, stretch or get any exercise.
Have a good autumn weekend,
O.J
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Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
OJ's Advice
Sea Hunt,
After meditating on some of OJ's images, I stand corrected. So pick up a used trailer and sell it when you're done. Sounds like a plan. The good news is you don't have a real winter approaching to worry about. So buy her and take your time figuring out how to get her home.
Neil, should we start looking into the proper method for keel- hauling just as a precaution.
Dick
After meditating on some of OJ's images, I stand corrected. So pick up a used trailer and sell it when you're done. Sounds like a plan. The good news is you don't have a real winter approaching to worry about. So buy her and take your time figuring out how to get her home.
Neil, should we start looking into the proper method for keel- hauling just as a precaution.
Dick
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
Re: OJ's Advice
Dick,Dick Barthel wrote:Neil, should we start looking into the proper method for keel- hauling just as a precaution.
With the introduction of ablative anti-fouling bottom paint, it's not what it used to be.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
-
Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
Re: OJ's Advice
Neil,Neil Gordon wrote:Dick,Dick Barthel wrote:Neil, should we start looking into the proper method for keel- hauling just as a precaution.
With the introduction of ablative anti-fouling bottom paint, it's not what it used to be.
Are you suggesting we might have to add nonskid to the ablative to keep it a proper incentive for Mr. Sea Hunt?
Dick
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Neil Gordon
- Posts: 4367
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 17:25
- Location: s/v LIQUIDITY, CD28. We sail from Marina Bay on Boston Harbor. Try us on channel 9.
- Contact:
Re: OJ's Advice
Yes, but not until after next year's regatta.Dick Barthel wrote:Are you suggesting we might have to add nonskid to the ablative to keep it a proper incentive for Mr. Sea Hunt?
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
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John Vigor
- Posts: 608
- Joined: Aug 27th, '06, 15:58
- Contact:
Well, O J, whether your dire warnings of the difficulties of sailing around the Everglades were offered tongue-in-cheek or not, you've effectively put the mockers on any chance that Sea Hunt will ever take a Typhoon into those waters.
As you must know, Sea Hunt doesn't need much discouragement to abandon any plan to acquire a boat. And you've given him that in spades.
Anyone who reads that delightful magazine Small Boat Advisor knows that hundreds of small sailboats race and cruise around the Everglades every year. There's the Everglades Challenge, for a start, 300 nautical miles for canoes, kayaks and sailboats, including small open dinghies. Check out: http://watertribe.com/EvergladesChallen ... rview.aspx
I am dismayed at the amount of caution creeping into our sport. I am ashamed at how averse we have become to taking risks, ashamed because we wouldn't be at our present stage of development in sailing, or in the world s a whole, if our forebears hadn't been willing to take risks.
What would Columbus or Slocum or Harry Pigeon or Bardiaux have thought about dire warnings about mosquitos, shortages of ice, and overflowing Porta Potties on the fearsome passage around the Everglades? Talka bouta buncha wimps.
We partake in a sport that cannot be made free of risk, not matter how many precautions you take. Far better to learn to accept that accidents may happen, and learn to cope with the aftermath. Otherwise we are on the road to being so paralyzed with fear that we never leave the dock if it's blowing more than 10 knots.
Anxiety before a passage is quite normal, no matter how experienced you are, and it never seems to fade, but I have found that it disappears when you get under way and become engrossed in the running of the ship.
I don't expect ever to be able to convince Sea Hunt of the truth of this, but I feel his chances of acquiring a boat would be greatly enhanced if people would refrain from highlighting the negative aspects of sailing, and focus instead on the joy and satisfaction that comes from taking reasonable risks.
John Vigor
As you must know, Sea Hunt doesn't need much discouragement to abandon any plan to acquire a boat. And you've given him that in spades.
Anyone who reads that delightful magazine Small Boat Advisor knows that hundreds of small sailboats race and cruise around the Everglades every year. There's the Everglades Challenge, for a start, 300 nautical miles for canoes, kayaks and sailboats, including small open dinghies. Check out: http://watertribe.com/EvergladesChallen ... rview.aspx
I am dismayed at the amount of caution creeping into our sport. I am ashamed at how averse we have become to taking risks, ashamed because we wouldn't be at our present stage of development in sailing, or in the world s a whole, if our forebears hadn't been willing to take risks.
What would Columbus or Slocum or Harry Pigeon or Bardiaux have thought about dire warnings about mosquitos, shortages of ice, and overflowing Porta Potties on the fearsome passage around the Everglades? Talka bouta buncha wimps.
We partake in a sport that cannot be made free of risk, not matter how many precautions you take. Far better to learn to accept that accidents may happen, and learn to cope with the aftermath. Otherwise we are on the road to being so paralyzed with fear that we never leave the dock if it's blowing more than 10 knots.
Anxiety before a passage is quite normal, no matter how experienced you are, and it never seems to fade, but I have found that it disappears when you get under way and become engrossed in the running of the ship.
I don't expect ever to be able to convince Sea Hunt of the truth of this, but I feel his chances of acquiring a boat would be greatly enhanced if people would refrain from highlighting the negative aspects of sailing, and focus instead on the joy and satisfaction that comes from taking reasonable risks.
John Vigor
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Another Side Of The Coin
Sea Hunt and all,
Woo hoo, another viewpoint. (and in no uncertain terms). There's much that could be said in rebuttal. I think, at this time, that I will rely on the sage words of Falstaff on his reference to discretion.
My thoughts on the subject still remain as those of Trapper and Gary M, and I still think that it would be more prudent for Sea Hunt to trailer the Ty from the point of purchase to Key Largo.
O J
Woo hoo, another viewpoint. (and in no uncertain terms). There's much that could be said in rebuttal. I think, at this time, that I will rely on the sage words of Falstaff on his reference to discretion.
My thoughts on the subject still remain as those of Trapper and Gary M, and I still think that it would be more prudent for Sea Hunt to trailer the Ty from the point of purchase to Key Largo.
O J
Maybe it can't be adjusted but its worth a try
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=21742
At least its in the right state!
All the best
Gary
At least its in the right state!
All the best
Gary
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barfwinkle
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 10:34
- Location: S/V Rhapsody CD25D
You know folks, as I was scrubbing the hell out of Rhapsody's deck this afternoon, I was thinking about this proposed journey of 100 miles. Prior to going to the boat, I opened my Offshore Navigator to re-familiarize myself with the region (vicariously). I have in the past dreamed of dinghy cruising this region and all though I have absolutely no local experience (see www.rhapsodysails.com about the Galveston trip of 2006) I cant help but wonder was a grand trip this would be.
Forget the top end yacht cruise! Get a bug net, some bug spray, a tent and a seasonal sleeping bag, and some "backpacker" stores and have one hell of an experience. Hit the Ten Thousands Islands area, the area of the Everglades that are open keys and enjoy mother nature.
Be prudent, take a experienced friend/crew and have a ball.
And for gods sake Seahunt, please buy a boat!
Fair winds
Forget the top end yacht cruise! Get a bug net, some bug spray, a tent and a seasonal sleeping bag, and some "backpacker" stores and have one hell of an experience. Hit the Ten Thousands Islands area, the area of the Everglades that are open keys and enjoy mother nature.
Be prudent, take a experienced friend/crew and have a ball.
And for gods sake Seahunt, please buy a boat!
Fair winds
Bill Member #250.