If you want people to go sailing w/ you often, I think it's imperative that the skipper be sensitive to the comfort zone of the passengers & crew, rather than their own comfort zone. I would turn around immediately if they start to get scared.
I feel very comfortable in my Typhoon in 15 - 20 kt winds and 6 ft seas. This is probably near my own comfort limit. We get knocked around and soaked, and then my Chief Safety Officer starts to freak. I think I would feel safe but anxious in 20 - 30 kt winds, and 8 - 10 ft. seas (w/ a life-line), but no member of my family or non-sailing circle of friends would go out with me ever again.
On the Gulf Coast of Florida we don't get too many 15 - 20 kt days, so we don't get to experiment much w/ sail combinations. I was recently out in 15 kt winds w/ one reef and a 130 and had a great time (we had the 130 up b/c my youngest wanted to use the colorful sail...)
Wind force: thrill or terror? Input please!
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Mike Wainfeld
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Feb 11th, '05, 13:45
- Location: CD Typhoon "Regalo"
Bayshore, NY - Contact:
Exhillaration then fear
When you're sailing well and the wind feels great, there's a lot of exhillaration that you'll feel being connected to your sailboat. When the wind pipes up, the thrill becomes more and more intense until that exhillaration begins to turn to fear as you push your personal envelope. But each time you push the envelope further, the later the fear sets in.
There's always a line between exhillaration and fear. It's in every one of us. Novices may experience fear early on in the sailing and seasoned salts have a much higher tolerance level for excitement and may not get excited until it really blows. But we all know that when we exceed the threshhold limit of exhillaration and excitement, fear is just around the corner.
Take your time and push your envelope occasionally. Experience those exciting highs of sailing and even the fear once in a while. It's why we go out to sea. As you do, your level of comfort will increase and you'll enjoy it even more.
There's always a line between exhillaration and fear. It's in every one of us. Novices may experience fear early on in the sailing and seasoned salts have a much higher tolerance level for excitement and may not get excited until it really blows. But we all know that when we exceed the threshhold limit of exhillaration and excitement, fear is just around the corner.
Take your time and push your envelope occasionally. Experience those exciting highs of sailing and even the fear once in a while. It's why we go out to sea. As you do, your level of comfort will increase and you'll enjoy it even more.
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Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
Try to be comfortable
Judith,
I think that one of the sailor's greatest enemies is fatigue. In heavier conditions, you will tend to get more tired, and therefore it is important to think ahead and do the things necessary to stay within your comfort level.
If you are thinking "should we reef," the answer is invariably yes; you can always shake it back out later. Where I have run into trouble is when I have thought, "oh this won't last that long," or, "hey it will be just until we round that point." That is, I put the reefing off, and then the price of handling an over-canvassed boat is fatigue. Then you are not as sharp when you do have to go forward and reef, when maybe the wind and seas have increased more.
Make sure you stay warm. Up here in Maine, even in summer, when it is really blowing it can be bone-chilling, and that saps the energy. Make sure you have some food in you, even if it's just some crackers, and stay hydrated. I can be a bit seasick-prone, so if I think it will be rough, I medicate early. (Once you get a little woozy, going below and digging out a jacket or fixing some grub can be rather unappealing.)
Try to identify your fears. Ironically, one of my fears in rough conditions is that I will get seasick; when I know that I am medicated, nourished and hydrated, I relax. One of my wife's things is that she just does not like the shriek of high wind. If you know that, you will also know that turning a bit downwind for a while will give yourself some respite and time to regroup. And just knowing that that (or whatever) is your fear will help put things in perspective when you realize that everything is, in fact, under control.
I guess what I am saying is that this is not just about sailing skills. it's also about common sense and knowing your own limits. You need to take care of yourself just as much as you need to tend to the boat. If you are feeling less than optimum, it can start to be overwhelming; then you make bad decisions born of fatigue, and the whole thing can start to go downhill. Think ahead about what you will need.
And like Melissa says; go when YOU want to go! Don't use others' standards. There is no litmus test. This is about fun. Reading a book in the cabin at the slip on a blustery day can be mighty fine.
Dean
I think that one of the sailor's greatest enemies is fatigue. In heavier conditions, you will tend to get more tired, and therefore it is important to think ahead and do the things necessary to stay within your comfort level.
If you are thinking "should we reef," the answer is invariably yes; you can always shake it back out later. Where I have run into trouble is when I have thought, "oh this won't last that long," or, "hey it will be just until we round that point." That is, I put the reefing off, and then the price of handling an over-canvassed boat is fatigue. Then you are not as sharp when you do have to go forward and reef, when maybe the wind and seas have increased more.
Make sure you stay warm. Up here in Maine, even in summer, when it is really blowing it can be bone-chilling, and that saps the energy. Make sure you have some food in you, even if it's just some crackers, and stay hydrated. I can be a bit seasick-prone, so if I think it will be rough, I medicate early. (Once you get a little woozy, going below and digging out a jacket or fixing some grub can be rather unappealing.)
Try to identify your fears. Ironically, one of my fears in rough conditions is that I will get seasick; when I know that I am medicated, nourished and hydrated, I relax. One of my wife's things is that she just does not like the shriek of high wind. If you know that, you will also know that turning a bit downwind for a while will give yourself some respite and time to regroup. And just knowing that that (or whatever) is your fear will help put things in perspective when you realize that everything is, in fact, under control.
I guess what I am saying is that this is not just about sailing skills. it's also about common sense and knowing your own limits. You need to take care of yourself just as much as you need to tend to the boat. If you are feeling less than optimum, it can start to be overwhelming; then you make bad decisions born of fatigue, and the whole thing can start to go downhill. Think ahead about what you will need.
And like Melissa says; go when YOU want to go! Don't use others' standards. There is no litmus test. This is about fun. Reading a book in the cabin at the slip on a blustery day can be mighty fine.
Dean
Last edited by Dean Abramson on May 7th, '07, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Don't go sailing right now!
Judith,
Since I'm new at all this I'll add my two cents. The 10-15 knot range is a great range to learn to sail and get real comfortable with your boat. I always leave with a reef in since they're so easy to take out.
When it gets up to 20 and over, everything can get a little crazy when you are inexperienced, that is my (in)experience. There is a lot more load on lines and just luffing into the wind everything is rattling and shuttering and loose jib sheets whip around and hurt. Little details start to matter more and getting in good routines at 15 kts sets you up for success when things pipe up. Accidental jibes, for instance, have higher stakes at higher wind speeds. If you get out and things get nasty, just be confident reduce sail and think each move through. Fred B. told me that a while ago, just take a moment and think about it when things get hairy jsut to stop and hink about it. You might encounter this if you are out in an afternoon t'storm on the sound or river for that matter, even if it was 5-10 kts when you left McCotters.
I just hope no one with my skills is out on the Pamlico right now. It is blowing Force 8+ with gust up to 50 kts from the N. I think I would put out two anchors and chafe protection and huddle below. Theres not much room to run with the shoals out there in the sound
I wonder if the rendezvous happened in S. River this weekend. I planned to attend and was at the coast, but dared not untie after the forecast. It is a real interesting storm.
Chase
Since I'm new at all this I'll add my two cents. The 10-15 knot range is a great range to learn to sail and get real comfortable with your boat. I always leave with a reef in since they're so easy to take out.
When it gets up to 20 and over, everything can get a little crazy when you are inexperienced, that is my (in)experience. There is a lot more load on lines and just luffing into the wind everything is rattling and shuttering and loose jib sheets whip around and hurt. Little details start to matter more and getting in good routines at 15 kts sets you up for success when things pipe up. Accidental jibes, for instance, have higher stakes at higher wind speeds. If you get out and things get nasty, just be confident reduce sail and think each move through. Fred B. told me that a while ago, just take a moment and think about it when things get hairy jsut to stop and hink about it. You might encounter this if you are out in an afternoon t'storm on the sound or river for that matter, even if it was 5-10 kts when you left McCotters.
I just hope no one with my skills is out on the Pamlico right now. It is blowing Force 8+ with gust up to 50 kts from the N. I think I would put out two anchors and chafe protection and huddle below. Theres not much room to run with the shoals out there in the sound
I wonder if the rendezvous happened in S. River this weekend. I planned to attend and was at the coast, but dared not untie after the forecast. It is a real interesting storm.
Chase
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Andy Denmark
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:38
South River sail-in aborted
Hey Chase,
In the face of a major weather event the South River sail-in was aborted. Saturday wasn't too bad and Lou and Pete sailed over to see if there were any arrivals that didn't get the word. There were none. Several of the Fleet members joined up for a get-together at Lou's Saturday evening which was fun. It's a good thing no one did go over as they would still be there, unable to get out. The winds have been in excess of 50 kts with major wave action at the river mouth (fetch is directly down Pamlico Sound).
What is unusual is the NWS is so focused on the Kansas tornadoes that they are virtually ignoring this major east coast storm.
I've doubled up all docklines and am using lots of chafing gear. Everything seems to be holding well. High water still could be a problem but it seems to be holding at about 2 feet higher than normal (just under the deck surface).
Sorry we couldn't get together.
________
VAPORIZER SHOP
In the face of a major weather event the South River sail-in was aborted. Saturday wasn't too bad and Lou and Pete sailed over to see if there were any arrivals that didn't get the word. There were none. Several of the Fleet members joined up for a get-together at Lou's Saturday evening which was fun. It's a good thing no one did go over as they would still be there, unable to get out. The winds have been in excess of 50 kts with major wave action at the river mouth (fetch is directly down Pamlico Sound).
What is unusual is the NWS is so focused on the Kansas tornadoes that they are virtually ignoring this major east coast storm.
I've doubled up all docklines and am using lots of chafing gear. Everything seems to be holding well. High water still could be a problem but it seems to be holding at about 2 feet higher than normal (just under the deck surface).
Sorry we couldn't get together.
________
VAPORIZER SHOP
Last edited by Andy Denmark on Feb 13th, '11, 03:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Wayne Grenier
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Mar 7th, '06, 18:30
- Location: 1974 CD 28 Meantime
Always add a "fudge factor" on top of the predicted wind-if they say 15-20-in Buzzards Bay with 2-4 ft seas- you can count on 20-25 mph and 3-5 foot seas (of course when beating the apparent wind increases anyway) and when playing out near the islands and the "holes" where the wind and seas are funneled through the openings its guaranteed the wind and waves will be higher than out in the open-any area where the bottom rises up and becomes shallow will produce larger waves and any land mass will funnel the wind and make it stronger-
When I go out alone I almost always put up my working jib and leave the genny in the bag-that way I know I can reef the mainsail in seconds and with one reef in the main and the working jib I can handle a lot of wind-up to 25 knts-easily-
practice reefing the main until you can't get it wrong and keep in mind its real real hard to break something on a Cape Dory-I have only had sails and halyards let go-I did replace all the standing rigging a few years ago as it was 20 years old but showed no signs of wear-I was told the recommended replacement time on New England was 18 years-so it was due-I kept the old stuff for spares and when the rigger asked what kind of boat I had I told him CD 28 and he commented the rigging was in his opinion "beefy"-
so-reef your mainsail-put up a little jib and feel free to go out on a windy day! its a real blast!
And keep my philosophy in mind-"if it breaks, it needed replacement anyway!"
When I go out alone I almost always put up my working jib and leave the genny in the bag-that way I know I can reef the mainsail in seconds and with one reef in the main and the working jib I can handle a lot of wind-up to 25 knts-easily-
practice reefing the main until you can't get it wrong and keep in mind its real real hard to break something on a Cape Dory-I have only had sails and halyards let go-I did replace all the standing rigging a few years ago as it was 20 years old but showed no signs of wear-I was told the recommended replacement time on New England was 18 years-so it was due-I kept the old stuff for spares and when the rigger asked what kind of boat I had I told him CD 28 and he commented the rigging was in his opinion "beefy"-
so-reef your mainsail-put up a little jib and feel free to go out on a windy day! its a real blast!
And keep my philosophy in mind-"if it breaks, it needed replacement anyway!"
get together
I shoulda checked in and joined the fleet. I guess I was out of touch. Sat. was cloudy and I cetoled the rails at fixed the dink motor and went on an adventure. Sorry I missed you too.
I agree about the storm. With winds that high, it feels like a major weather event to me and for all in the Pamlico it is. Bet it is NASTY off Hatteras. The way it came about is also fascinating, I think. Maybe it's more run-of -the mill than I think. Bud says he'll look after Anne Freeman so I can sleep.
Chase
I agree about the storm. With winds that high, it feels like a major weather event to me and for all in the Pamlico it is. Bet it is NASTY off Hatteras. The way it came about is also fascinating, I think. Maybe it's more run-of -the mill than I think. Bud says he'll look after Anne Freeman so I can sleep.
Chase
Anyone who is interested in a history of the Beaufort scale, may want to read: Defining the Wind: The Beaufort Scale, and How a 19th-Century Admiral Turned Science into Poetry by Scott Huler. Not to take anything away from the very talented writers who regularly post on this board, but Huler described Beaufort's scale as "the best, clearest, and most vigorous piece of descriptive writing I had ever seen"
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cbrenton
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 09:00
- Location: Carol Anne
Cape Dory 33, Hull #75
Newington, New Hampshire
I never sail for fun in winds above Force 5....then there is the slippery issue of ...suppose I just want to be somewhere else...what am I willing to go out in to get there. The answer for me is Force 6-7 if it is to windward and Force 7-8 if its off the wind. Sometimes that is exhilarating but mostly its just work and you do what you have to do. Above that, well about once every 10 years, I get caught by something unexpected, and that has always been OK, but definitely not fun and there is no way I would ever do it on purpose....It is just more risk and wear on the boat than I am willing to accept. I do think that everyone needs to define these limits personally. For most of us, the limits are set more by ourselves then by the boat.
Charlie Brenton
"Carol Anne"
CD 33
Charlie Brenton
"Carol Anne"
CD 33
BIG difference between a 20 knot wind and a 30 knot wind.
One thing which I think is very important, but which often gets overlooked in these discussions, is the fact that the relationship between wind speed and wind force is not linear. The increase in force when going from a 20 knot wind to a 30 knot wind is something like double the increase in force when going from a 10 knot wind to a 20 knot wind.
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Kurt
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Feb 8th, '05, 11:12
- Location: 27' Cape Dory (Alerion),
9' Dyer,
Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Wind force increases with the square of the velocity
A 10 know breeze would have a force of 100 (10x10)...a 20 knot breeze would have a force of 400 (20x20)...a 30 knot breeze has a force of 900. Therefore a 30 knot wind is 9 times more powerful than a 10 knot breeze.
Sailing on (hanked) jib alone
If you want a nice relaxing sail with out the worry of healing,
try sailing her by jib alone. I had a beautiful sail this evening after work. In a 12 mph wind I set the working jib and tacked about 2 miles down the bay. The tiller sets itself at about 3 percent off center, and the boat sailed herself. You can walk around the boat sit on the deck and enjoy a calming sail.
Happy sailing,
Ron[/quote]
try sailing her by jib alone. I had a beautiful sail this evening after work. In a 12 mph wind I set the working jib and tacked about 2 miles down the bay. The tiller sets itself at about 3 percent off center, and the boat sailed herself. You can walk around the boat sit on the deck and enjoy a calming sail.
Happy sailing,
Ron[/quote]